(09-10-2022, 08:55 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Could the Mavs be a part of a three way trade for Bojan? Let’s say it is Phx. If they included a heavily protected first and salary….wouldn’t Crowder be a part of that salary? I tried playing around on three team trade ideas but couldn’t find one. The issue is an expiring Crowder could probably bring more than a Mavs offer, I think.
What about Toronto? A heavily protected first plus salary. If that salary was Thad Young, could he be an option? He is more of a 4 now, so he may not be of interest to Dallas.
Isn’t Westbrook the obvious move?
Utah gets Westbrook and picks, Dallas gets Bojan, Lakers get Conley + choice of Hardaway or Bertans.
Bojan might be better than Clarkson, but we all know the Mavs need another playmaker/ball-handler, so JC fits more than Bojan.
If the Mavs are trading with LA, this might be possible:
Mavs get: JC + Gay
LA gets: Conley + DP + Bertans
Utah gets: Westbrook + Mavs FRP + LA's FRP
(09-10-2022, 09:20 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]It’s fascinating reading this thread. Bojan was (my opinion) far and away the best opponent in our first round series. He was the only one (as I recall it) who played both offense and defense for them. They tried to ride him harder and harder as the series wore on, and he was game. He just wore down. I think he’d be the second best player here.
If Bojan is with the Mavs, he'd be the 4th best player. Wood and Dinwiddie would be better.
If we go down to who would be the most important players, Bojan would even go down a few notches. With how the Mavs are structured Maxi > Bojan:
1 Luka
2 Wood
3 Dinwiddie
4 Maxi
5 DFS
6 Bojan
(09-10-2022, 09:20 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]It’s fascinating reading this thread. Bojan was (my opinion) far and away the best opponent in our first round series. He was the only one (as I recall it) who played both offense and defense for them. They tried to ride him harder and harder as the series wore on, and he was game. He just wore down. I think he’d be the second best player here.
You describe the same series i watched.
Only Bojan brought it on both ends
(09-10-2022, 09:20 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]It’s fascinating reading this thread. Bojan was (my opinion) far and away the best opponent in our first round series. He was the only one (as I recall it) who played both offense and defense for them. They tried to ride him harder and harder as the series wore on, and he was game. He just wore down. I think he’d be the second best player here.
I think its dangerous to read too much into a single series of basketball. That kind of thinking is probably part of the reason why we did not offer Brunson a max extension last offseason. He is a good player, but 33 and expiring. If we could get him for Bertans and Green then you have to pull that trigger, but I doubt that will be the case. I am out on paying a first for any of the Utah guys, and I struggle to see a reasonable path to get any of them otherwise.
(09-10-2022, 09:52 PM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Bojan might be better than Clarkson, but we all know the Mavs need another playmaker/ball-handler, so JC fits more than Bojan.
If the Mavs are trading with LA, this might be possible:
Mavs get: JC + Gay
LA gets: Conley + DP + Bertans
Utah gets: Westbrook + Mavs FRP + LA's FRP
Don't really think Clarkson is a playmaker. He can get his own, but he doesn't really create for others. I get that you are paying a first both for Clarkson and dumping Bertans, but you are impacting our ability to send out firsts for years without addressing any of our most important needs (a legit number 2 next to Luka, a two way player, a 3rd playmaker).
You simply do not give up a 1st round pick for a player that will be an UFA next summer and 34 years old. With our roster strength, the increased cap over the next 24 months and the gradual cleaning of our cap, you simply do not sink a 1st round pick and a 60/3 contract extension into a 34 year old Bojan, when he does not put you in the top three of title contenders. He either signs as an veteran UFA for the MLE or you look elsewhere. We need a true star and running mate for Luka.
(09-11-2022, 12:40 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]You simply do not give up a 1st round pick for a player that will be an UFA next summer and 34 years old. With our roster strength, the increased cap over the next 24 months and the gradual cleaning of our cap, you simply do not sink a 1st round pick and a 60/3 contract extension into a 34 year old Bojan, when he does not put you in the top three of title contenders. He either signs as an veteran UFA for the MLE or you look elsewhere. We need a true star and running mate for Luka.
First the good news. An extend and trade maxes out at 3 years, including the upcoming season. So, there wouldn't be any 60/3 contract extension. It would be 40/2 or something in that neighborhood. He's 33 this season and would be 34 and 35 at the beginning of those additional seasons. Not ideal, but he's not shown any sign of slowing down yet. He was 18 a game on .387 from three last year and is automatic from the corners. It also fits the timeline Dallas established with the Maxi signing.
The gradually clearing space thing won't matter as we won't be using cap space to acquire players until 2025...if then. Our depth isn't nearly as much as one might believe if 2-3 players are outgoing to bring back a star. So, there is a need to add some quality even if it feels like there aren't enough shots to go around.
The tough one is the pick. We gave one up for a Wood rental, but that one didn't impact the package offer for a star next summer. I think Bogdanovic would be a significant contributor to winning...arguably just as important as Wood. I'd rather conserve the future first round picks also and I think the team would too. My guess is that the Dallas offer is Green and some matching salary and seconds. I'm not sure that does it. BTW, yesterday I said any deal would have to include either THJ or Bertans. Actually, Powell, Green and Frank also get you there. A three-for-one would cause roster issues on both sides, but that is fixable.
I suspect if we were to acquire Bojan, his defense would be as polarizing on this board as THJ’s has been. He looks like he’s the type to give 100% effort, but his body can’t do what the mind tells it as much anymore. Father time is catching up.
I find it hard to think he’d start unless he came in and is one of those unbelievable fits to the team in training camp. Then the question is once again, who does he replace? Is he enough of a driver to be a release value for Luka so SD can sit? Is he enough if a defender to let Bullock sit (which probably forces DFS to be the point of attack defender). I don’t think he’d supplant McGee. I suspect his best use is at the 3/4 type spot, but that is the sweet spot DFS occupies for us.
This is my reasoning to believe the news of us being interested in Bojan to be some sort of agent driven ploy to get interest stirred up. That or Utah trying to start negotiating through the media. I just don’t see Bojan as worth too much to US because of DFS.
In all honesty, if we’re gonna give up a first for a 33yo player, why not send a first to Hou for Eric Gordon? Can spell Luka and SD? Check. Can play offball? Check. Can hit 3’s? Check. Has a second year so can be a useful expiring when we need salary filler? Check.
Mind you, I don’t want to do either, but I’d prefer Gordon to Bojan on this team.
(09-10-2022, 11:13 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Don't really think Clarkson is a playmaker. He can get his own, but he doesn't really create for others.
I see JC as a playmaker because of 3 things: He can score on his own, he can handle the ball and he can facilitate for others. The keyword here is "can". He can definitely score, his handles are good, not very advance but enough to go to places with the ball, and he has decent vision, just enough to recognize open teammates.
And it's not like JB left a huge void in the assists department. JB can pass too obviously, but I can't help but feel he often has the blinders on, and more than willing to score on his own than pass.
(09-11-2022, 10:10 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]I see JC as a playmaker because of 3 things: He can score on his own, he can handle the ball and he can facilitate for others. The keyword here is "can". He can definitely score, his handles are good, not very advance but enough to go to places with the ball, and he has decent vision, just enough to recognize open teammates.
And it's not like JB left a huge void in the assists department. JB can pass too obviously, but I can't help but feel he often has the blinders on, and more than willing to score on his own than pass.
Brunson is generally around 24% assist rate and Clarkson has been roughly 14%. That is a big difference. I'm not saying he would not be better than our third option now, but I don't think you want him out there as the only guy who can pass the ball if you can help it.
(09-11-2022, 01:45 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Brunson is generally around 24% assist rate and Clarkson has been roughly 14%. That is a big difference. I'm not saying he would not be better than our third option now, but I don't think you want him out there as the only guy who can pass the ball if you can help it.
Would be an awesome secondary option to play with both Luka and Dinwiddie though. And, no matter how the starting lineup shaked out, he'd guarantee you could have some kind of threatening offense during bench unit minutes.
(09-11-2022, 02:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Would be awesome secondary option to play with both Luka and Dinwiddie though. And, no matter how the starting lineup shaked out, he'd guarantee you could have some kind of threatening offense during bench unit minutes.
Sure. I like the player. If we can get him without paying a first, I am in. I just don't think a Clarkson rental is worth the opportunity cost of potentially missing out on trading for Luka's sidekick.
(09-11-2022, 02:23 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Sure. I like the player. If we can get him without paying a first, I am in. I just don't think a Clarkson rental is worth the opportunity cost of potentially missing out on trading for Luka's sidekick.
I was just addressing the discussion (brief as it was) about the actual basketball player.
I promise I didn't miss the other 100 times you've made this position clear. The more I think about it, the more I think they won't get a 1st for him. Now, they might not trade him at all, sure. But, there are very few teams who need Clarkson (or Conley) as badly as the Mavericks do, and I don't think the Mavs will cough up a first, so...
Question for those who believe a "sidekick" coming is just a matter of time:
What if we were a talking about a package of Bogdanovich, Conley and Clarkson? Like, 2/3 maybe? Would that be worth one, single 1st to you?
(09-11-2022, 04:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Question for those who believe a "sidekick" coming is just a matter of time:
What if we were a talking about a package of Bogdanovich, Conley and Clarkson? Like, 2/3 maybe? Would that be worth one, single 1st to you?
To be clear, I don't believe I have ever said its just a matter of time. I think its our best option to become a contender, which should be the goal. If getting better now harms our chances of contending later (as in before Luka's next contract), then I lean toward focusing on contention.
I'm not sure there is a combination of those players that gives us a long term shot at contention due to age, length of contracts and lack of addressing our primary needs. Honestly I have a hard time seeing what that trade would be that makes sense for both teams. I think it makes way more sense for Utah to send a package of those players for Russ and pick(s).
(09-11-2022, 04:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Question for those who believe a "sidekick" coming is just a matter of time:
What if we were a talking about a package of Bogdanovich, Conley and Clarkson? Like, 2/3 maybe? Would that be worth one, single 1st to you?
The "evidence" Nico has a deal in place for a complementary player for Doncic is the rejection of Dragic.
Nico is not thick enough to reject Doncic's Slovenian teammate with whom he has obvious chemistry and who is not expecting superstar treatment or compensation.
One doesn't become a world-class shoe salesman by ignoring fit.
WAB
(09-11-2022, 07:33 PM)WildArkieBoy Wrote: [ -> ]One doesn't become a world-class shoe salesman by ignoring fit.
![[Image: 3c53b68b76042aaa4fbe2c4a3e0a96f3.gif]](https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3c/53/b6/3c53b68b76042aaa4fbe2c4a3e0a96f3.gif)
We can’t do it like we did with dirk and go all in every year. We already had a setback with the KP fiasco. We just made a trade with a FRP this summer to help this year’s team. I don’t think the clock has started to find the Jrue deal just yet. It’s not a good time to be a buyer of high end players on the trade market anyways. The window IMO starts in June. Lasts until Luka ends it
There’s obviously special cases but the only thing on the table for trade pre-June should be:
Powell
THJ
Bertans
Green
Frank
2027 2nd
2029 2nd
Pinson has some sort of no trade clause(not sure how big of deal this would be). Hardy is Nico’s first big draft move. Wood we just traded for. Mcgee we just signed. Luka, SD, RB, DFS, Maxi is who we’re adding to. And all of the future FRP’s are necessary for the big move
The cap seems to be rising at the 10% max increase rate every year. The apron will be at $200 million probably before Luka’s contract is up. I like the extensions. Wood is up next. So far every deal Nico made is team friendly and easy to move. He’s doing it the right way