Notes from Shams:
Spurs would like Poetl to be a part of their future, but are balancing his upcoming price tag vs losing him for nothing. They have had his max extension (5 for 58) on the table since this summer. Rivale execs believe he will approach 20 million per year this summer. Toronto and Boston mentioned. Also said Josh Richardson and Doug McDermott will receive interest at the deadline as well.
Charlotte expected to be a seller at the trade deadline with Rozier, plumlee, Mcdaniels and Oubre mentioned.
John Collins- Utah is the most engaged team recently with Vanderbilt and Beasley that could interest the Hawks. Also mentioned Washington.
Raptors, Lakers, Pelicans, Bucks, Cavs and Mavs are the teams registering interest in Bogdanovic. Detroit asking for an unprotected first round pick at this time.
Clippers looking for depth in the frontcourt and have discussed John Wall deals.
Timberwolves need to make a major decision on Russell. No signs of an extension, so Minny has been exploring trade possibilities while prioritizing another point guard.
Suns and Magic have emerged as potential free agent suitors for VanVleet.
Timberwolves and Clippers are expressing interesting in Mike Conley Jr.
I wonder how those Minny and Utah trades start? LOL.
A couple of notes regarding player valuation, based on the piece from ESPN:
Collins: Boucher, Young, Birch, top10 protected FRP
Vanderbilt: Sharpe, Edwards, top8 protected 2027 FRP (BKN), Dedmon and 2023 top14 protected FRP
PJ Washington: Duarte, 2023 FRP
Coby White: Cam Payne and 2 SRP (as Dallas that would be an interesting relatively low cost gamble)
Crowder: does not value him at FRP. Basically some crap expiring contracts and second rounders
Ross (Orlando): Beverly and SRP
Korkmaz (salary dump): Bobi for SRP and cash
Trent: Graham, Hayes and 2027 FRP
Kuzma: Bev, Christie and top8 protected 2027 FRP
(01-17-2023, 10:12 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]That’s his point. He gave you Wood’s NBA data at the same age/stage of his career. He was a “complete scrub” and couldn’t stick with anyone. It is intellectually dishonest to call one a scrub and not the other at that point. Both show/showed clues of what they might become/became. But it was in no way destiny at that point that Wood would be a 20/10 guy just like it is not destiny at this point that Bitadze won’t.
Y'all like to argue details, trying to be "right" on the most insignificant points that have zero constructive purposes.
You can't project greatness from related ineptitude. For every Wood/DFS/Middleton/FVV there are thousands of Mo Agers. Just because some good players once sucked doesn't mean that all players who suck will be good. That's like saying all ducks are birds, therefor all birds are ducks. You're using the exception to prove a rule.
But, I'll play. 4th Year in the NBA...
Bitadze - 19gms, 10mins, 3.5pts, 2.3rbs, 0.5blk
Wood - 8gms, 23.6mins, 16.9pts, 7.9rbs, 1.3blk
Are we done here?
Fischer:
Quote:Could the Raptors ultimately decide to trade Siakam? Anything is possible in this world of Musical Chairs, but Toronto is only expected to seriously listen to offers for Gary Trent Jr., sources said. Fred VanVleet’s apparent trade candidacy seems far more rooted in his down performance this season, as the smaller guard approaches his 29th birthday, than the front office’s willingness to part with such a central team leader. Meanwhile, Raptors officials have left rival front offices with the impression, sources said, it would take a haul at least in the ballpark of Atlanta’s offseason price for Dejounte Murray — multiple unprotected first round picks — for Toronto to even consider parting with OG Anunoby, a known favorite of Ujiri.
Quote:As Marc Stein previously reported, Trent appears to be the most likely Raptor to be traded, and by a wide margin. Various rival executives are under the impression Toronto will even search to move Trent before the deadline, as Trent is positioned to decline next season’s $18.5 million player option and test free agency. Early indications are that Trent will be seeking upward of $25 million in average annual value before the 2023-24 campaign begins.
Trent arrived in Toronto, after all, as the result of a similar dynamic with Norm Powell before the 2021 deadline. The Raptors moved Powell to Portland in exchange for Trent, as Powell was expected to decline his player option for that following 2021-22 season. The Blazers ultimately awarded Powell a five-year, $90 million contract Toronto had little interest in extending, but the Raptors did sign Trent to his three-year, $51 million deal instead.
What would the Raptors look for in return for Trent? One inkling: Toronto has shown interest in Hornets forward Jalen McDaniels, sources said. Charlotte’s fourth-year forward would fit the same bill that Trent did two years ago. He’s set to reach unrestricted free agency this summer, where teams are projecting McDaniels to command a far lower salary than Trent — roughly $10 million per season — in the ballpark of the full non-taxpayer mid-level exception.
Quote:League figures are ballparking VanVleet’s next salary between $30 million and $35 million, above the threshold he could have extended for this past summer, but the length of that contract will be of note. Kyle Lowry before him did sign a three-year, $100 million agreement with the Raptors before the 2017-18 season at 31 years old.
Much of the conversation surrounding Toronto’s decision-making does stem from a matter of accounting. The Raptors will have plenty of flexibility to evade the luxury tax next season, but are currently tracking toward a monstrous payroll for 2024-25 with Siakam and Anunoby each eligible to reach free agency that summer before, especially if VanVleet’s next big deal stays on their books. And at this juncture, is this Toronto team currently one that’s worth such a hefty bill? If that seems like too far in the future to consider, 2024 free agency is less than 18 months away.
Anunoby will surely be seeking his own raise just like VanVleet. The 25-year-old forward has garnered Defensive Player of the Year buzz this season while earning under $20 million annually this year and next. His situation is actually quite similar to Murray’s before him, with the All-Star point guard’s bargain contract of $16 million average annual value setting his possible extension number far below the maximum figure he’ll become eligible for in the 2024 offseason — virtually guaranteeing Murray will reach unrestricted free agency. Anunoby and Murray also share the same representation: Klutch Sports.
Unless OG makes the all star team, the Murray/OG trade value comparison is very far fetched. That may be what Ujiri is asking, but that is not his value.
Din for D'Angelo Russell...
Russell definitely has a higher pedigree and ceiling, but this year they're production is almost identical. Their production off the ball is almost identical. Looking at that and the fact that Din has been here a year and has fit into his role, you only do this deal if you think that playing with Luka and playing off the ball will restore him to a 23pts player.
(01-17-2023, 11:10 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]Din for D'Angelo Russell...
Russell definitely has a higher pedigree and ceiling, but this year they're production is almost identical. Their production off the ball is almost identical. Looking at that and the fact that Din has been here a year and has fit into his role, you only do this deal if you think that playing with Luka and playing off the ball will restore him to a 23pts player.
Russell can also walk in the summer. Or Mavs can have the honor to overpay him due to the bird rights trap they are in. Not really a fan
(01-17-2023, 11:09 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Unless OG makes the all star team, the Murray/OG trade value comparison is very far fetched. That may be what Ujiri is asking, but that is not his value.
You're spot on.
At 25 and garnering DPOY support, OG's value is projection, not past production. IMO, he's a player that could absolutely explode on another team in the right role. Is OG worth an expiring contract, 3ea FRPs, and a pick swap? IMO, the 3rd FRP is debatable (and to you're point) makes his worth probably a FRP below Murray (and yes a 3ea FRP asking price).
Putting the Rozier rumor and the PJ Wash valuation together.
PJ Wash and Rozier for Bertans/Bullock/2 SRPs (or THJ/McGee/2 SRPs, their choice)
I don't think Rozier is a winning player and he's on a bad 4 year contract. He does however know how to handle the ball and has a reputation to be able to defend at times. Cha saves a ton of long term money with this deal and don't have to deal with PJ's contract negotiations (which if they do sign Bridges, PJ is more than likely a SnT effort). I might go as far as the 28 FRP, but it would have to be unprotected (so we can trade the 30 in the offseason) and I'd actually want a bit more for that (28 is past Luka's current contract, so the value of that pick should be much higher than our earlier picks).
(01-17-2023, 11:47 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Putting the Rozier rumor and the PJ Wash valuation together.
PJ Wash and Rozier for Bertans/Bullock/2 SRPs (or THJ/McGee/2 SRPs, their choice)
I don't think Rozier is a winning player and he's on a bad 4 year contract. He does however know how to handle the ball and has a reputation to be able to defend at times. Cha saves a ton of long term money with this deal and don't have to deal with PJ's contract negotiations (which if they do sign Bridges, PJ is more than likely a SnT effort). I might go as far as the 28 FRP, but it would have to be unprotected (so we can trade the 30 in the offseason) and I'd actually want a bit more for that (28 is past Luka's current contract, so the value of that pick should be much higher than our earlier picks).
I like some of those pieces in Charlotte for sure and think they can help but if we trade with Charlotte it's gotta be that second package. I always look at them because they seem to the be the only team we could trade McGee to since they have contracts we could take back that are worse (but seemingly with players that could actually help).
(01-17-2023, 11:09 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Unless OG makes the all star team, the Murray/OG trade value comparison is very far fetched. That may be what Ujiri is asking, but that is not his value.
How about this?
(General Outline)
Toronto: Dallas 3 FRPs, Dallas SRP, Powell, Hardy
Detroit: Dallas SRP, Trent Jr, McGee
Dallas: OG, Bogdanovic, Noel
Then...
Charlotte: DFS, Bullock
Dallas: Rozier
10-man Rotation:
Point: Luka, Rozier
Guard: Dinwiddie, Green
Forward: OG, THJ
Forward: Bogdanovic, Maxi
Center: Wood, Noel
(01-17-2023, 12:07 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]How about this?
(General Outline)
Toronto: Dallas 3 FRPs, Dallas SRP, Powell, Hardy
Detroit: Dallas SRP, Trent Jr, McGee
Dallas: OG, Bogdanovic, Noel
Then...
Charlotte: DFS, Bullock
Dallas: Rozier
10-man Rotation:
Point: Luka, Rozier
Guard: Dinwiddie, Green
Forward: OG, THJ
Forward: Bogdanovic, Maxi
Center: Wood, Noel
We don't have 3 firsts to trade at the moment though. This would have to happen this offseason and a lot of these players will be in different situations by then.
(01-17-2023, 12:40 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]We don't have 3 firsts to trade at the moment though. This would have to happen this offseason and a lot of these players will be in different situations by then.
How about this?
(General Outline)
Toronto: 2FRPs, SRP, Hardy
Dallas: OG
Then...
Charlotte: SRP, DFS, Powell
Dallas: Rozier, PJ Washintong
10-man Rotation:
Point: Luka, Rozier
Guard: Dinwiddie, Green
Forward: OG, THJ
Forward: Washington, Maxi
Center: Wood, Noel
(01-17-2023, 12:47 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]How about this?
(General Outline)
Toronto: 2FRPs, SRP, Hardy
Dallas: OG
Then...
Charlotte: SRP, DFS, Powell
Dallas: Rozier, PJ Washintong
10-man Rotation:
Point: Luka, Rozier
Guard: Dinwiddie, Green
Forward: OG, THJ
Forward: Washington, Maxi
Center: Wood, Noel
I love OG but wouldn't make any trades involving picks that far out into the future when we can just wait until this offseason to trade earlier ones.