(01-10-2023, 02:53 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Can he create shots? Yes.
Is he going to be what those calling him a "ball-handler" expect? No.
He is less of a PG than Dinwiddie is. He's a bad iso player, that's it.
Ok, THAT is the issue you're taking with this type of move. To me, it was said earlier, this swap allows us to be an offense similar to what we faced in the LACs for 2 years in the playoffs. No one on the team other than Luka is a floor general (PG) before or after this trade. IF Levert pushes SD to the bench, I think it bodes well for the offense as it becomes more of that drive and kick style of play (should always be utilizing the PnR to drive too) with Luka, Wood, Levert, Green and SD being the drive guys after the offense sets up. That leaves DFS, Bullock, Wood, Green, Maxi (if he comes back) and SD as the catch and shoot 3 shooters/spacers too.
That is an 8 man rotation that has some potential to get out of the 1st round without relying so heavily on Luka to go supernova all game every game. It's not about bringing up the ball, it's about conserving his energy during offensive play and not having to always be the one to initiate the PnR/drive. It's also a detraction to always HAVING to win by hitting 3's.
(01-10-2023, 01:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So DP's on/off numbers tell me he is being used GREAT by this coaching staff. Not being asked to do too much or put in a position where he cannot flourish. SD's on/off numbers tell me the exact opposite. The role and way SD is being used is not working for the TEAM (even if his individual counting stats look good).
I mostly like this take. A good plus/minus in a certain role doesn't mean it will
translate to a different role. These are not plug-n-play numbers, but instead are context dependent. Perhaps Powell as a backup does well in plus/minus because he only has to face backups, or because he plays with certain backups whose games complement his.
Nor do Powell's numbers tell us
how good he objectively is (or isn't) in general. It's informative that we see a player with a great plus/minus on one team might be traded, and it becomes awful, or vice versa. They only tell us what happened in a certain context.
Of course the goal isn't to find the best way to make Powell's plus/minus or on/off the best possible, but rather the team's as a whole. A different use that saps his score, but that improves his direct replacement's, might be a much better overall result for the team.
But they are a hint to seeing if there is a perhaps a problem that can be improved by combining your players in a better way, to be sure.
How many picks do we have to add in a Bullock/Green/Hardy for Anunoby deal this TDL?
(01-10-2023, 01:06 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]It is odd to me how much we've started to overlook this throughout this thread. You can tell me all you want about how poor Dinwiddie is playing and how we need to upgrade his skillset and I can find myself agreeing at times but the moment you trade him (without bringing another ball handler back) is the moment you drop this team's ceiling dramatically. His ball handling is a necessity on this team right now, if we haven't replaced that skillset by the time his contract is up then I wouldn't be surprised if he is extended.
There is a very obvious reason that Hardaway has been shopped since the moment he signed that new deal and we don't see Dinwiddie's name come up.
I gravitate towards this post.
I hate THJ's selfish ways. I believe Dinwiddie has gotten too comfortable, to the point I find myself frustrated with him like I do THJ. Dinwiddie has a MAJOR issue with driving to the hoop and refusing to kick out. He will throw up an ugly looking shot over kicking to an open player in the corner. Its frustrating for sure.
But...last half of the season last year...the way Dinwiddie played(unselfish) was such a breathe of fresh air. Are team was lacking a ball-handler. I do not want to lose that, even though I am kind of starting to get very frustrated with his decisions on offense. If he would revert back to last seasons Dinwiddie I would be very happy.
On top of that, MY PERSONAL OPINION, Dinwiddie seems to have an above average instinct to feel a mismatch and attack the rim AND FINISH. MY OPINION. I think he is exceptional at getting to the rim and finishing with layups. And...I think this team could use that.
TL;DR = Im reluctant to get off Dinwiddie. Offensive Spencer that is.
(01-10-2023, 03:08 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Dallas needs a "ball handler". Dallas needs more guys who can do something besides shoot or finish a lob. Bullock has to be the most extreme example because ostensibly he's a guard but DFS, Kleber, THJ, Powell -- none of our guys can do anything with the ball except shoot.
It's so defeating to watch a kid like Hardy pass the ball to Bullock who's like "WTF is this hot potato?"
Ok, I respect your opinion.
But I think you're going to hate LaVert if this happens.
I would hesitate to add a Lavert IF we think Hardy has the ability to be our next Brunson/DFS contributor.
I am all for adding a playmaking PG/Wing IF they can run the team without Luka. BUT, Hardy is showing signs of being a penetrating guard that is not a recommendation for the Masons when he shoots. Not sure how he and Lavert co-exist.
(01-10-2023, 04:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, I respect your opinion.
But I think you're going to hate LaVert if this happens.
Lavert might not be the right answer.
But I think Hardaway-Lavert might be the right
type of swap equation -- ie, to find a player who some other team is willing to move for a shooter, who might be able to slide into that massive ball-handling creator hole created by the loss of JB.
DanS had mentioned Rozier, who also seems to be of that ilk.
Lavert and Rozier have opposite contractual ramifications. But each, in some way, would be an attempt to turn THJ into a talent that might be closer to JB, and can do things to "replace" JB that THJ cannot come close to. The point being, somewhere in the bin containing those types may be where a useful deal may be found.
(01-10-2023, 04:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think you're going to hate LaVert
I agree that I probably won't like one player any more or less than I like the other, but I think Lavert would help Dallas and THJ would help Cleveland. They're both flawed and more than capable of crashing over their skis, but also prone to catching fire on any given night. Neither are stars but both are solid veteran rotation players who can play key roles on a playoff team.
Honestly, they're $18-20 million dollar vets and you get what you pay for. Hield, Eric Gordon, Bojan, Joe Harris, Barnes, Fournier, Gary Trent, Lavert and THJ ... all similar.
(01-10-2023, 05:12 PM)SkenfromLMF Wrote: [ -> ]I would hesitate to add a Lavert IF we think Hardy has the ability to be our next Brunson/DFS contributor.
I am all for adding a playmaking PG/Wing IF they can run the team without Luka. BUT, Hardy is showing signs of being a penetrating guard that is not a recommendation for the Masons when he shoots. Not sure how he and Lavert co-exist.
I think Hardy is 2 years away. At least. I can recite way too many areas where he doesn't cut it, and almost none where he offers true basketball excellence (or even rotation level skill). So far.
Even if we think he can get there
eventually, given enough time, do we just wait, and run out the clock until he's ready? I think that's a franchise killer, to just wait and hope a kid gets better. Instead, find a solution for now, and then he can be a solution for 2024 or 2025 IF he develops further.
I'm going to be so bummed out if Siakam gets moved in a ho-hum deal we could have easily beaten
Hard to think of someone outside of like Giannis who would be a better fit next to Luka and Wood (hopefully he makes it through untraded and signs that extension)
https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...4069374976
How about this yall...CALL ME CRAZY
How about...JUST LIKE BRUNSON AND GREEN AND ANY OTHER ROOKIE...whether you want to argue that it was never the case and try and use parsing of words to prove a point...
How about we just FORCE THJ INTO THE PLAYER WE WANT LIKE WHAT RICK AND POSSIBLE KIDD SUPPOSEDLY DO.
I have heard poster defend benching of rookies to prevent their bad habits....WHY DONT WE JUST DO THAT WITH THJ?!
Just bench him when he takes a bunch of selfish shots or bad bball IQ shots.
Look...I am the biggest THJ hater on the forum...but probably his biggest fan if he would play right.
I assume posters will try and trigger me by claiming that it is IMPOSSIBLE to treat a veteran like that. Well...its not impossible and probably should be the case with THJ.
Hes got an incredible shot...if he used it correctly. But...he doesnt. Thus...he should be treated like Brunson and Green.
Thats facts yall.
Incoming "we have to preserve his value" defense.
(01-10-2023, 05:22 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that I probably won't like one player any more or less than I like the other, but I think Lavert would help Dallas and THJ would help Cleveland. They're both flawed and more than capable of crashing over their skis, but also prone to catching fire on any given night. Neither are stars but both are solid veteran rotation players who can play key roles on a playoff team.
Honestly, they're $18-20 million dollar vets and you get what you pay for. Hield, Eric Gordon, Bojan, Joe Harris, Barnes, Fournier, Gary Trent, Lavert and THJ ... all similar.
It's not that I don't understand your point, it's that I don't agree with it. I think THJ (and the role he plays) is more needed and helpful than LaVert would be here.
I might feel like you do if I thought LaVert was actually "similar but different" to THJ, but for my money, that's not the case. Different, sure, but THJ is just better, and shooting is more valuable, especially next to Luka, than
BAD creation. LaVert is not a good player. For me, it's that simple. I suppose it's possible he'd get the "Luka bump" that Dinwiddie got, but I have more faith that THJ (who has been playing well the last 22 games or so) will continue to improve as the time between him and that injury moves along. I could be wrong, but that's just how I see it. I think THJ is a good player and LaVert is not.
Do we realize just how chained to Bullock this team would be if this trade was made? Bullock would become the best catch-and-shoot threat from the wing on the team, unless you count Dinwiddie. They'd still have DFS and eventually Kleber from the corners, but spacing would get even worse, imo.
So let’s say Dallas looks to move Bullock, would any of these three players be worth it to you? Salary matching is an issue but let’s assume no assets are given by Dallas and no long term salary returns.
Can Thomas-
Can Reddish
M Thybule
(01-10-2023, 06:37 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]So let’s say Dallas looks to move Bullock, would any of these three players be worth it to you? Salary matching is an issue but let’s assume no assets are given by Dallas and no long term salary returns.
Can Thomas-
Can Reddish
M Thybule
I would move Bullock for almost anyone...except for maybe Thybulle, lol. I'm sure everyone here but me would love to do that one, too.
Bullock is the dude they should be shopping.
(01-10-2023, 02:31 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]1 The intention after last season was to continue "2 creators at a time"
2 The expectation was Brunson would be back
3 They botched that completely
4 They thought, as their fallback going forward, SD could replace JB as the #2 guy (paired with Luka at times but also his backup) -- but if we recall, this team went to that next level when they got the 3rd guy
5 SD is not as good as JB individually, nor in his fit with Luke
I agree with all of the above.
What I'm not sure about is the assumption that
they understand all of the above. If they do, they did a terrible, terrible job this summer.
(01-10-2023, 06:05 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]How about this yall...CALL ME CRAZY
How about...JUST LIKE BRUNSON AND GREEN AND ANY OTHER ROOKIE...whether you want to argue that it was never the case and try and use parsing of words to prove a point...
How about we just FORCE THJ INTO THE PLAYER WE WANT LIKE WHAT RICK AND POSSIBLE KIDD SUPPOSEDLY DO.
I have heard poster defend benching of rookies to prevent their bad habits....WHY DONT WE JUST DO THAT WITH THJ?!
Just bench him when he takes a bunch of selfish shots or bad bball IQ shots.
Look...I am the biggest THJ hater on the forum...but probably his biggest fan if he would play right.
I assume posters will try and trigger me by claiming that it is IMPOSSIBLE to treat a veteran like that. Well...its not impossible and probably should be the case with THJ.
Hes got an incredible shot...if he used it correctly. But...he doesnt. Thus...he should be treated like Brunson and Green.
Thats facts yall.
Incoming "we have to preserve his value" defense.
Whether you think this take is asinine or not...would agents scare clubs into "I wont do business with you" or "I wont steer my clients your way" because of this mentality?
(01-10-2023, 06:37 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]So let’s say Dallas looks to move Bullock, would any of these three players be worth it to you? Salary matching is an issue but let’s assume no assets are given by Dallas and no long term salary returns.
Can Thomas-
Can Reddish
M Thybule
Sign me up for all three. Cam Thomas is the Nets version of Jaden Hardy. Cam Reddish´s contract expires. Gives the Mavs a few month to test him out. Thybull cannot shoot but is an even better and more versatile defender than Ntilikina. That alone is worth it.
Not to mention that just looking at the stats all three of them are having a way better season than Bullock. Not like they are having good seasons but Reggie is still in the competition for worst player in the league.
Among qualified players...
2nd last in PER
6th last in BPM
7th last in TS%
(01-10-2023, 01:55 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So to me the best way to look at on/off numbers is that they can tell you how successful a player is being within the ROLE they are being asked to play on the team within its given context. I find that to be maybe the most valuable thing to know anyway.
So DP's on/off numbers tell me he is being used GREAT by this coaching staff. Not being asked to do too much or put in a position where he cannot flourish. SD's on/off numbers tell me the exact opposite. The role and way SD is being used is not working for the TEAM (even if his individual counting stats look good).
So On/Off is not telling me DP "should start." If anything they are saying to me "keep using him like this, maybe expand his role a little, but know that an expanded role could easily change the outcomes in a way you don't like."
I haven't liked the way Wood has been used for most of the whole year, so it doesn't surprise me his numbers are "meh." In fact, I am personally shocked they are not worse than they are as I don't think the team has been playing to his strengths for many games.
This is an excellent explanation. Powell is in the perfect role. Wood needed to be playing with Luka and the numbers show that.
I don’t like Dinwiddies role either. He’s bad for the team when Luka is not on the court. I believe Dinwiddies perfect role is the Hardaway role. If Hardaway could just dribble and attack! Well, Dinwiddie can do that and shoot 3’s(at a higher rate). So, upgrade Hardaway’s current role and find somebody else to fill what’s needed. We need someone to run the team when Luka is not there. Dinwiddie is bad at that
Dinwiddie is also a bad defender much like everyone not named Josh, Dorian, Maxi. So, Dinwiddie and his contract will probably be traded at some point just like the others. Like has been mentioned though, he is vital to our top 5 offense. He’s the guy to put in the superstar trade IMO
(01-10-2023, 06:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with all of the above.
What I'm not sure about is the assumption that they understand all of the above. If they do, they did a terrible, terrible job this summer.
I still think a mystery Powell trade fell through
So I just wonder if it was a salary dump or if they were bringing in another ball handler. Absolutely no logical reason to make that McGee signing if Powell was expected to make it to opening day
(01-10-2023, 07:25 PM)Jym Wrote: [ -> ]I still think a mystery Powell trade fell through
So I just wonder if it was a salary dump or if they were bringing in another ball handler. Absolutely no logical reason to make that McGee signing if Powell was expected to make it to opening day
It's possible, but I think Cuban's "we'll be in luxury tax hell, but it's ok, it's just for one year" means that the the plan was to let Powell expire, and probably dump THJ for nothing, which it feels like they're about to do.
Who knows, maybe losing Brunson has changed the plan. I hope so.