(12-21-2022, 01:51 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Not blasting you or anyone who agrees but you hang up the phone easily for any of these packages and then some. We've got a potential top 10 player of all time whos 23. When given the slightest bit of help he took us to the WCF.
If we can just surround him with a top half of the league supporting cast he's taking us to the finals almost every year in the west. The league for the next decade should be Luka vs Giannis. Only MBT stands in the way.
Completely agree 110% on why you SHOULDNT trade a guy like Luka in his prime. Really he's not even in his prime yet.
But my ONLY reason would be that history repeats itself. Its in your last sentence. "Only MBT stands in the way". We never REALLY got Dirk the help he needed. I'm not sure there has ever been another team win a Championship with 1 superstar and really good role players. That is exactly what Cuban and co. are trying to do with Luka.
Dirk was loyal. Luka will not be. We keep this up and he's requesting a trade in 2 years. And when his contract is up he's wearing a Lakers, Knicks, or Celtics uniform.
Any thought of a trade for Luka would be because we couldn't create a championship roster around him.
I absolutely co-sign the idea that at some point, if things don't improve, Luka Doncic is going to smarten up and find a way out of here. He is not Dirk - my dude was a celebrity with a Porsche when he was 16 years old. Dirk didn't think he was good enough to play in the NBA during his first couple of seasons and had to be talked out of quitting and going home with his tail between his legs (thank God he didn't do that) while Luka, as a rookie, was literally shocked he didn't get every single call he wanted, basically just because he wanted them.
It's like comparing apples and bowling balls just because they both happen to come from "not North America." Turns out they have tons of different countries over there, and within those many nations are vastly different backgrounds, personalities, etc.
To me it seems obvious that Luka, unlike Dirk, is very concerned with his place in the game, historically, even at such a young age. Personally, I think that might be a good thing for the Mavs if they can get their act together, as Dirk probably would've done even more for this team and city if he had a liiiiitle more of a star mentality. But either way, the thought that he's going to be here at age 32, still trying to live down 7-8 frustrating seasons of listening to the the national talking heads tell everyone he's not good enough to win it all when the reality is that Cuban is a moron seems comical to me.
I totally get the POV that we shouldn't spend our time as fans being scared of that or consumed by it (doubly true for the team decision makers who need clearer judgement, not additional clouding) but to cavalierly proclaim that "Luka's not like that" seems even more unproductive. This is a situation in which the world is in the Mavs' hands, but they have to do something with the opportunity or it WILL come to an end prematurely.
(12-21-2022, 01:04 PM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: [ -> ]100% accurate. If we want to unload Bullock or McGee or whoever else. We're not getting P.J. Washington or any 23 year old asset unless we include picks.
The Mavs just dont have it in them to sell off. They think this team is only a minor tweak away from a championship. So they are going to try to for some major blockbuster by trading away all of our remaining 1sts for the next decade or they are going to nibble on the edges and improve the 7,8,or 9th man in the rotation.
While its true that the Mavs FO are not the type to sell off, the question is who could they sell off if they wanted to? Does Dorian get a first? Does Dinwiddie? It does not really matter if they are the kind of organization that sells off because there is not much to sell.
They don't have a lot of options before the TDL. They can either make small moves that don't involve Green, Hardy or draft capital, or they can do something bigger. My vote would be to stick with the former unless there is a deal too good to pass up.
It is probably not likely that we can land somebody like PJ Washington for Bullock. The Collins trade might have a chance depending on how distressed an asset he is. He seems like a good candidate for a Din like revival.
Zach Lavine looks like he’s playing hurt or something is up. He’s been finishing with layups instead of monster dunks. All his teammates hate him because he seems to be half assing it.
I’d probably stay away if he requires a “all your picks” package.
(12-21-2022, 02:09 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I absolutely co-sign the idea that at some point, if things don't improve, Luka Doncic is going to smarten up and find a way out of here. He is not Dirk - my dude was a celebrity with a Porsche when he was 16 years old. Dirk didn't think he was good enough to play in the NBA during his first couple of seasons and had to be talked out of quitting and going home with his tail between his legs (thank God he didn't do that) while Luka, as a rookie, was literally shocked he didn't get every single call he wanted, basically just because he wanted them.
It's like comparing apples and bowling balls just because they both happen to come from "not North America." Turns out they have tons of different countries over there, and within those many nations are vastly different backgrounds, personalities, etc.
To me it seems obvious that Luka, unlike Dirk, is very concerned with his place in the game, historically, even at such a young age. Personally, I think that might be a good thing for the Mavs if they can get their act together, as Dirk probably would've done even more for this team and city if he had a liiiiitle more of a star mentality. But either way, the thought that he's going to be here at age 32, still trying to live down 7-8 frustrating seasons of listening to the the national talking heads tell everyone he's not good enough to win it all when the reality is that Cuban is a moron seems comical to me.
I totally get the POV that we shouldn't spend our time as fans being scared of that or consumed by it (doubly true for the team decision makers who need clearer judgement, not additional clouding) but to cavalierly proclaim that "Luka's not like that" seems even more unproductive. This is a situation in which the world is in the Mavs' hands, but they have to do something with the opportunity or it WILL come to an end prematurely.
Best case (or maybe worst case) would be Luka showing more interest in roster moves. Starting to recrute himself. Something he hasn´t done so far. Something Dirk never managed to do.
(12-21-2022, 04:58 PM)JamesConway912 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/16055...89760?s=46&t=POg8fge12vs93lXXITHifQ
If there’s a way to turn Wood into Collins you gotta do it I’d argue. Wood is a goner at this point Imo. But they absolutely can not afford to let him walk next summer.
FWIW, Fields probably knows Nico really well. His first front office job was with the Spurs. He also got a special Nike shoe when he was in the Rising Stars game back in the day.
I know Collins has been discussed ad nauseam but doesn't the book read offense-first tweener who is average to slightly below average defensively and doesn't create for himself or others? Not quick enough to guard wings and not big enough to defend bigs? A slight or maybe significant downgrade from Wood offensively for a slight upgrade defensively?
Istok lumps Collins with Wood, Randle, KP and the guy I've mentioned as Wood's realistic comp: Bobby Portis. Might as well also include Wolves third stringer Naz Reid.
With KP a 7-foot exception, that's a bunch of 6' 9" guys who score but don't defend.
I don't understand why you trade Wood for Collins unless someone just has that archetype as the ideal guy to play next to Luka. Of course, that begs the question, what do you do with DFS? And who plays center?
(12-21-2022, 04:58 PM)JamesConway912 Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/wojespn/status/16055...89760?s=46&t=POg8fge12vs93lXXITHifQ
If there’s a way to turn Wood into Collins you gotta do it I’d argue. Wood is a goner at this point Imo. But they absolutely can not afford to let him walk next summer.
If the argument is you should turn Wood into Collins because Wood is gone, and not because it helps make the Mavs better, then we may as well trade Luka at this point. Collins is a clear downgrade on Wood right now. It's the Mavs job to put their best players, not only in a position to succeed, but a position to want to stay. We actually used to have that a decade back. If we not only can't do that, but are actively sabotaging our ability to do it, we are a complete lost cause. I'm still thinking it's early in the season, and we aren't that incompetent, and the stuff with Wood will turn around and we will resign him. Probably naive, I know.
(12-22-2022, 08:42 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]If the argument is you should turn Wood into Collins because Wood is gone, and not because it helps make the Mavs better, then we may as well trade Luka at this point. Collins is a clear downgrade on Wood right now. It's the Mavs job to put their best players, not only in a position to succeed, but a position to want to stay. We actually used to have that a decade back. If we not only can't do that, but are actively sabotaging our ability to do it, we are a complete lost cause. I'm still thinking it's early in the season, and we aren't that incompetent, and the stuff with Wood will turn around and we will resign him. Probably naive, I know.
How much money should the Mavs pay Wood in your humble opinion, considering that he´s clearly better than Collins according to you.
Collins signed the 25M/year extension based on the exact same raw numbers Wood averaged the last four years.
Since Wood is nevertheless better than Collins (advanced eye test I presume), the Mavs need to take care of their own players (for player relation reasons) and the cap is about to spike by like 20% over the next five years, what you reckon is a fair contract for Wood: 136/4 ish?
(12-22-2022, 08:42 AM)Dundalis Wrote: [ -> ]If the argument is you should turn Wood into Collins because Wood is gone, and not because it helps make the Mavs better, then we may as well trade Luka at this point. Collins is a clear downgrade on Wood right now. It's the Mavs job to put their best players, not only in a position to succeed, but a position to want to stay. We actually used to have that a decade back. If we not only can't do that, but are actively sabotaging our ability to do it, we are a complete lost cause. I'm still thinking it's early in the season, and we aren't that incompetent, and the stuff with Wood will turn around and we will resign him. Probably naive, I know.
I think most folks who are in on trading for Collins think he is at least as good as Wood and a better fit. They probably believe in his 39% 3 point shooting over the last three seasons more than the 21% he is shooting in the last 30 games. They probably think he is a better defender at both the 4 and the 5, has a higher BBIQ and has less red flags. They also may not be excited about the leverage Wood will have over the Mavs if he hits free agency as we would have no way to replace him.
(12-22-2022, 10:13 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I think most folks who are in on trading for Collins think he is at least as good as Wood and a better fit. They probably believe in his 39% 3 point shooting over the last three seasons more than the 21% he is shooting in the last 30 games. They probably think he is a better defender at both the 4 and the 5, has a higher BBIQ and has less red flags. They also may not be excited about the leverage Wood will have over the Mavs if he hits free agency as we would have no way to replace him.
I get all of that, and it's all valid...but something in the back of my mind is still screaming "just extend Wood!"
Just a feeling, I suppose.
(12-22-2022, 10:22 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I get all of that, and it's all valid...but something in the back of my mind is still screaming "just extend Wood!"
Just a feeling, I suppose.
I'm with you. I'm almost convinced to just extend Wood and build around Luka/Wood. Keep your (limited) assets for a different trade.
If he wont extend or they're not confident they can sign him, then he needs to be moved. And moving him in a package for Collins or a similar style player.
The question i keep asking myself is can we have both? Wood and Collins. And how would that work?
I'm not against the trade, really, because I definitely don't want to lose another asset for nothing, and Wood scares me to death in that way, and with the chance that he just never becomes consistent.
However, put me in the camp who believes the Collins we'd see here every night wouldn't measure up to the Collins that this board has been fantasizing about for 2-3 seasons.
I think he's best as an undersized 5, and maybe even a little below average at the 4. Since I don't think many people interested in the trade want to play an undersized 5, and I'm almost sure Kidd doesn't want to build around that as a concept, I think maybe there would be a lot of people disappointed about two weeks after driving that player off the lot.
Wood, on the other hand, seems to have the perfect attributes (physically, at least) to be a starting center to me, as I have typed on this forum so often that people are starting throw up in their mouths when they read my posts.
In conclusion, here are my wishes, ranked:
1) use Wood in a package for someone truly difference making (like Siakim)
2) extend or re-sign Wood to be given the chance to be the team's MAIN center and be the offensive focus with LUKA
3) Trade him for someone, just to trade him and not lose another asset...(like Collins)
4) Get Brunson'd again
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