(02-07-2023, 11:06 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]As Smitty points out, there would be more work to be done. If we like Ayton at $3o+ million, do we like Poeltl at about $20mm? THJ and 27? Bertans and 27?
Poeltl/Powell
Maxi/Crowder (or visa versa)
Green/Reggie
Irving/THJ
Luka/Irving
The assumption being that we work out a long term extension as part of the trade? Can Poeltl play a switch heavy defense? That is part of the appeal of Ayton. Ayton is also younger and likely hasn't peaked yet. Also, if I am going to spend a very valuable pick and 20 mil, I would prefer that player to be able to hit a free throw.
(02-07-2023, 10:27 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Between the two deals being presented here (Ayton and Crowder or Collins and Bogdan) I think I like the Atl trade more. Thinking of Ayton on the team, our offense would change quite a bit to accommodate for his need to post up a decent amount per game. That as opposed to Collins where we can keep on keeping on with outside shooting and pick n rolls. Difference is we would have guys who are much better at attacking the close out.
I say that and in my mind I think, Collins MAY be a better defender than Wood, but I’m not so sure the difference is as pronounced as it has been made out to be here. He also hasn’t shown to be a better offensive player than Wood, and if he was as good as is being touted, the Hawks would be in a much better spot, wouldn’t they?
I don’t know what to think about all that honestly, I just know there are so many doubts in my mind with Collins at this point, where there were few a couple years ago.
This leads me to other options. I know I keep harping on this, but I really think the Cha or NYK trades are potentially better options to fill up our roster with good and age appropriate (to Luka) players.
Getting Rozier/Hayward/PJ/McDaniels for THJ/Bertans/Wood/McGee/27 gets us 4 rotation players for 2.
Getting Hartenstein/Toppin/Fournier/Rose/Reddish for Levert/Wood/Bullock/McGee could get us a possibility of 5 rotation players for 3. Pretty confident NYK would not take THJ back.
I also think these deals are closer to getting done than the other 2 deals, just my opinion though.
I don't think that Charlotte deal is worth a pick. Hayward is a negative asset. I think Hayward/PJ for Wood/Timmy is about right. That means you are spending a very valuable pick to dump salary and add Rozier/Mcdaniels. I don't want to waste assets on dumping salary, especially one as important as that.
I think if the Levert deal was a possibility it would have already been done by now. I would also suggest that Rose, Fournier and Reddish are not rotational level players right now and Hartenstein is really struggling.
Can’t see Phoenix sending Ayton here without getting Hardy, Wood, someone to match salaries (probably Powell), and whatever picks we have left to trade, but he’d be a great fit. I’d be good with that trade. You can’t get something of value without paying a price. High efficiency, moderate usage works with Luka and Kyrie. He can be one of the best rebounders in the league and is a plus defender. Imposing and athletic, he can easily anchor a single big lineup. He’s young and better than many of you think. I think he’d complete the team. The Mavs would be kind of like Phoenix but with Luka.
(02-08-2023, 12:06 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think that Charlotte deal is worth a pick. Hayward is a negative asset. I think Hayward/PJ for Wood/Timmy is about right. That means you are spending a very valuable pick to dump salary and add Rozier/Mcdaniels. I don't want to waste assets on dumping salary, especially one as important as that.
I think if the Levert deal was a possibility it would have already been done by now. I would also suggest that Rose, Fournier and Reddish are not rotational level players right now and Hartenstein is really struggling.
THJ goes a year longer, that IMO is a no go for Cha. Rozier is 4 years, the goal of a trade for Cha is to get off that deal, again IMO. Rozier the player is IMO on par with THJ the player, but THJ’s contract ends a year earlier and declines, there’s value in that. Wood/Bertans/McGee/27 for Hayward/PJ/McDaniels is roughly even IMO. The extra value from Rozier to THJ is the overpay we would do to make the deal the most enticing to a team not really looking to give up PJ.
As far as the NYK trade, I struggled doing Quickley for 27 because we take up all their options for backup PG. However, I think the value is there with receiving Toppin/Reddish/Hartenstein. Granted, I probably think more of Reddish and Hartenstein than some vocals around here do, They just stick out to me as not being done with their progression and I would like to get them before their full breakout. Rose seems close to done, but I think Fournier has a decent chance at looking better here with 2 setup men and the spacing than there. As far as the Levert part? I think it wouldn’t be wrong to ask NYK to add the tip to make that part happen. One or two seconds, IMO.
Also, Fournier is a negative contract that is expiring next year due to a club option in the last year. You fail to look at the negative contracts of Bertans and McGee (and I would say THJ too) that we’re dumping on them too, as if we’re the only ones sacrificing by taking on bad contracts in this trade. We aren’t in negotiation about this in real life, so no need to only look at what’s bad for us.
Chicago isn't extending Vooch.
I'd like him to be the Wood replacement.
He'd probably be a liability come the play-offs, but for the rest of the season, he'd at least make the Mavs better on the boards.
And if the Mavs get to face Denver, at the very least, there's a big body there to box-out and contest Jokic.
Both Wood and Vooch are expiring, so would the Bulls be interested in a 2 month trail for Wood? Wood might even get the number he wants with Chicago in FA. As for the Mavs, I would think Vooch knows despite his stats, he isn't going to get the pay he wants, or at least the years he would like (age factors in). A play-off run where he gets sidelined may result in plummeting expectations on his part and would accept a fair amount should the Mavs re-sign him.
Both can walk however and both teams could end up with nothing (and the salaries don't match anyway so)..
Expand the trade to include the likes of RB, THJ, Frank, McGee, a second rounder) with what the Bulls have? Derrick Jones and maybe Patrick Williams? Mix match and see what's fair, or get a third team to take on RB/THJ and get SRPs (or a first?) to send to Chicago.
Williams IMHo is Green in a big forward's body. He has the tools to be better than his current play, but is underperforming that some Bulls fans are getting impatient with him and calling him a bust (which he may very well be). But this kid, just like Green was, just lacks confidence. He is just 21 and can be a good role player still. But even in his current play, he'd get time on the Mavs as the Mavs basically have no quality bigs outside of Wood and Kleber.
Best case scenario, Mavs get Vooch, Patrick Wiliams and Derrick Jones Jr.
(02-07-2023, 11:17 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Hard to know. I’m not hearing a ton of teams lining up for Jae. It would help to know what LAC was thinking about in a Wood deal. Morris? Covington? Do we see those guys much differently than Crowder?
Seems like Wood and Crowder are in a similar situation. Both are on expiring contracts, and want to get a big payday with their next deal.
If Dallas makes this deal, it seems like:
1. They believe Crowder's value is higher than Wood's over the next few months of their championship run, after which he walks, or
2. They believe it will be easier to convince Crowder of his market value than it is to convince Wood of his.
(02-07-2023, 07:59 PM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...08000?s=46&t=dIAwjLCQfJwGpkcqkF-CuA
Cam Reddish's value has fallen so fast.
Why the hell did NYK trade for him in the first place? And why the hell did Thibs basically nuke all the value he had the first week he landed?
Makes zero sense. If he's bought out, as much as I'd love to take a flier, I bet he goes to a team like SAS or MIA where he can be featured a bit more.
(02-08-2023, 01:09 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Cam Reddish's value has fallen so fast.
Why the hell did NYK trade for him in the first place? And why the hell did Thibs basically nuke all the value he had the first week he landed?
Makes zero sense. If he's bought out, as much as I'd love to take a flier, I bet he goes to a team like SAS or MIA where he can be featured a bit more.
Well let´s hope he is bought out, we put in some (appreciation) work already and we have some minutes available.
(02-07-2023, 10:45 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Ayton is playing well lately. He had 33pts and 14 rebs tonight as Phoenix beat Brooklyn. Booker came back tonight as well. He might not be going anywhere.
That's not how it works for Ayton, and every Suns fans knows. He plays well when he feels like it. A few weeks of good performances, followed by two months of nothing where you forget he's on the court where he shuffles around like someone who's forgot he's on a basketball court. We don't need one of the most lethargic, low energy players in the league, regardless of his athletic gifts. There is a reason Suns fans are sick of a 24 year old C blessed with as much athletic ability as any big in the league. I honestly hope the Suns FO dont want to trade him anymore and we don't get him. Because then we can continue to abuse him and make him a liability in the playoffs like we did last year, when the Suns literally benched him half of a must win game 7 he was so bad.
I like the trades for defensive wings the most. OG obviously, but PJ Washington is legit defensively.
(02-08-2023, 01:09 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Cam Reddish's value has fallen so fast.
Why the hell did NYK trade for him in the first place? And why the hell did Thibs basically nuke all the value he had the first week he landed?
Makes zero sense. If he's bought out, as much as I'd love to take a flier, I bet he goes to a team like SAS or MIA where he can be featured a bit more.
I mean the flip side is that he's garbage. Being a high draft pick and being a good athlete doesn't make a good basketball player. Another low energy, low motor guy with no bball IQ.
(02-07-2023, 11:06 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]As Smitty points out, there would be more work to be done. If we like Ayton at $3o+ million, do we like Poeltl at about $20mm? THJ and 27? Bertans and 27?
Poeltl/Powell
Maxi/Crowder (or visa versa)
Green/Reggie
Irving/THJ
Luka/Irving
I would rather wait for Ayton this summer and have that be the big final move. Use the pick to get all the wings in now. Use the summer picks for Ayton. I don’t think an Ayton deal happens before Thursday. The suns would want to include him in a Durant trade this summer and i think that’s their top priority now
I was not impressed by Poeltl when we played them last. Cato said it well on his pod. Bigs are like running backs in football. You want to keep a steady supply of them and draft them. But you never want to pay them. Only the stupid teams pay them. There’s a small number of exceptions to this. Ayton is an exception. Poeltl and Wood are not.
Still, I’m keeping my eye on the spurs as they are one of the few teams i could see willing to take on Bertans possibly in a 3 team deal
poeltl can be acquired cheaper than ayton and he would also be a good addition to our squad. guy that should be shown the door before anyone is THJ imho. dude played horrible almost every game he appeared recently and it hurt his value badly, worse news is he'll remain on the book until 2025 unless we can find a deal to ditch his ass.
(02-08-2023, 07:08 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]I would rather wait for Ayton this summer and have that be the big final move. Use the pick to get all the wings in now. Use the summer picks for Ayton. I don’t think an Ayton deal happens before Thursday. The suns would want to include him in a Durant trade this summer and i think that’s their top priority now
I was not impressed by Poeltl when we played them last. Cato said it well on his pod. Bigs are like running backs in football. You want to keep a steady supply of them and draft them. But you never want to pay them. Only the stupid teams pay them. There’s a small number of exceptions to this. Ayton is an exception. Poeltl and Wood are not.
Still, I’m keeping my eye on the spurs as they are one of the few teams i could see willing to take on Bertans possibly in a 3 team deal
I tend to agree with Cato. Not saying their are exceptions on big man that I would pay…even a few non elite ones. But I think he is pretty right. I think a guy like Powell at 6-8 million plus a younger rim runner at the McGee range would be perfect. The secret sauce though is having a PF type who can also play small ball 5 when Dallas goes small. In an ideal world that is one of the spots they fill with our remaining draft capital.
(02-08-2023, 07:08 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Still, I’m keeping my eye on the spurs as they are one of the few teams i could see willing to take on Bertans possibly in a 3 team deal
Hadn't thought of this.. appreciate you bringing it up. Might be the one team that doesn't view him as a complete negative. I personally would rather keep Bertans and trade THJ. Bertans as a shooter off the bench is the role we need. THJ the shooter that can't shoot, starting, is getting old..
Orlando´s record this season, when Bamba plays
15+ minutes: 14-12
0-14 minutes: 4-9
DNP: 4-11
1-5 as a starter. So as a back-up, he seems pretty valuable.
Magic record with G. Harris is 11-16
(02-08-2023, 09:03 AM)Smitty Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/thenbacentral/status...02912?s=46&t=OiR1Bs0KwU2Oe3bdxzcayA
Frank + McGee for Thybulle & Korkmaz
I just hate trading with Morey. He makes mistakes but they are not often. If he doesn't think Thybulle is a fit on a team that needs what he offers, then I am really weary of what he is. Morey finds ways to get a small piece in trades that work out better in the long run too.
already being over the cap this year and next is there any way that NO would trade Graham and Hayes to Dallas for THJ? they take on more money for next year but Graham and THJ are pretty similar and they keep the salary slot instead of losing Hayes for nothing. I can't imagine they will pay him this summer with the contracts we already have.
could you loop in Cleveland and send THJ to the Cavs and Levert to NO? that would save NO all of Graham's contract.
maybe NO sends one of their seconds or very low firsts to the Cavs to make it worth their while?
(02-08-2023, 09:08 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I just hate trading with Morey. He makes mistakes but they are not often. If he doesn't think Thybulle is a fit on a team that needs what he offers, then I am really weary of what he is. Morey finds ways to get a small piece in trades that work out better in the long run too.
Scared money don't make money. The cost is McGee and Frank. Literally zero risk in that scenario.