(02-03-2023, 04:10 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Yes he is. Harris expires after a year, so I doubt they want THJ instead. How about a 3-Way…
Miami gets DFS/THJ and gives Lowry/Jovic
Brooklyn gets Wood/Lowry and gives Irving/Claxton
Dallas gives Wood/THJ/DFS and gets Irving/Claxton/Jovic
I doubt the Nets give up Claxton. He's had a breakout year. He's slight of build but he can switch to guard PG's and wings, and he's a decent shot blocker, rim runner. They need a backup with more size.
(02-03-2023, 04:14 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Its hard to imagine the deal not including SD. He is the closest thing to a Kyrie replacement on Mavs/Lakers. I would greatly prefer Timmy + SD, but if they don't think they can extend Wood, I could see a SD + Wood trade. That is probably the best player combination they can get from either team. Then maybe you try to work out some kind of a trade for Collins.
The big question is, where does BKN go from there? Does Durant also demand a trade? Do they still want to compete or do they pivot towards rebuild? Based on the answer they might value picks more than players quality or the other way around
(02-03-2023, 04:14 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]That's an interesting idea. Does that money work without Jovic or is that the reason he's included? Just curious
Not required. I sent out Wood and DFS (following the Miami rumors) and only got Claxton back, so I wanted another young PF.
The hill I’ll die on with Irving is I need to be OK with the deal I make now if he walks. In an extend and trade he can get 3 years and 5% raises. If he’d do that, then I think he’s more valuable. But, I don’t think he does that and I don’t trust that he won’t just bolt at the first opportunity. So, there have to be other attractive elements to this beyond just Irving.
Claxton is really promising (which is why I want him). I think a Wood/Simmons/Durant front court is more than adequate for Brooklyn. If I have to give up a pick to get Claxton, then fine. But, IF I’m required to send out real players like DFS to get this done, then I want something besides just Irving.
(02-03-2023, 04:14 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Its hard to imagine the deal not including SD. He is the closest thing to a Kyrie replacement on Mavs/Lakers. I would greatly prefer Timmy + SD, but if they don't think they can extend Wood, I could see a SD + Wood trade. That is probably the best player combination they can get from either team. Then maybe you try to work out some kind of a trade for Collins.
It was interesting to see that Brooklyn is 7-4 without Irving. I kind of think SD needs to be in this too. Can I get Brooklyns first if I’m sending Wood and SD? That would help in a deal for Poeltl (or Collins as you say).
It is easy to talk yourselves into Kyrie watching his highlights.
There is just so much there though.
If we deal for Irving and either Green or a first is included, I'm completely out.
I'd rather wait for the Durant blowup and trade for him. Luka and Durant - whoa.
Given what we know about Cuban's penny-pinching, it's hard to imagine that he wouldn't want some non-expiring contracts going out from us. That includes sweeteners, which, yuck.
Given what we know about Cuban's offcourt interests and perspective on basketball, watch us give up the farm for Kyrie, sign him to a four-year max with no stipulations, and watch the franchise burn for four years.
I am perhaps most concerned about 1) three other teams being listed as interested, which will jack up his asking price considerably, combined with 2) our desperation. Has Monty-Hall-for-the-Nets-and-misery-for-the-Mavs written all over it.
(02-03-2023, 04:30 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Given what we know about Cuban's offcourt interests and perspective on basketball, watch us give up the farm for Kyrie, sign him to a four-year max with no stipulations, and watch the franchise burn for four years.
Ew. I might have to become a Thunder fan
So what is better for Nets?
Westbrook and picks (even if both two) from LAL or two serviceable players like SD and Wood from Mavs (no picks)? Mavs are desperate, but so is BKN, as Durant might ask out any second and then it is all over for them for who knows how long.
If Mavs really like Irving, the most balanced proposal could be SD+Bullock. I think BKN could use Bullock more than Wood. Mavs would still need third ballhandler and another wing to replace Bullock... But they would have their picks left. And if you are all in desperate for Irving, why not waste those picks to bring in two solid players. One for example for Trent
Tyler has a 3 way on another site that doesn’t require bigs…
Bullock for Reddish and Dallas gets their 23 pick back. The pick, SD and THJ go to Brooklyn for Kyrie with Dallas ending up with Reddish and Kyrie. Woj doesn’t think the offers will be that strong and this would qualify. But, it gives Brooklyn a pick and a useful PG to replace KI. It gives Dallas cap relief in moving off of THJ. Yeah, Brooklyn would have a lot of non-defenders in Harris, THJ, Curry, but they’d also have two firsts in 23 and could parlay some of those salaries and picks into an upgrade elsewhere.
(02-03-2023, 04:52 PM)Jym Wrote: [ -> ]If there's any good news, I think the maximum extension would be 2 years. At least according to this guy.
https://twitter.com/BobbyMarks42/status/...8480448512
2 years for $78mm I’d do. Longer than that…no thanks.
Wouldn’t give up Green. Otherwise, I’m a yes on Kyrie. The Nets have a positive history with Spencer, who’s rehabbed his value this year, so I’m sure he’d be part of it. Maybe it would take DFS too and whatever else to salary match. Luka and Kyrie in theory are about as scary a combo as I can imagine. Luka, Kyrie, and Green as your top three can definitely work. But yes, it’s a risky move and we’ll have to put up with some crazy in the regular season.
(02-03-2023, 04:13 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe I am completly off on Claxton´s value but I think he is worth more than Kyrie. Vegas has him 2nd in the DPOY race.
You’re not off. The Nets aren’t trading him.
(02-03-2023, 04:50 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]So what is better for Nets?
Westbrook and picks (even if both two) from LAL or two serviceable players like SD and Wood from Mavs (no picks)? Mavs are desperate, but so is BKN, as Durant might ask out any second and then it is all over for them for who knows how long.
If Mavs really like Irving, the most balanced proposal could be SD+Bullock. I think BKN could use Bullock more than Wood. Mavs would still need third ballhandler and another wing to replace Bullock... But they would have their picks left. And if you are all in desperate for Irving, why not waste those picks to bring in two solid players. One for example for Trent
SD plus Bullock sounds like a fair offer. I was thinking about SD plus Powell, but that appears a little light. SD plus Wood doesn't feel right. If Brooklyn hopes to keep KD and be competitive, that could be a solid offer.
PHX probably wants Durant but does a Paul plus a pick beat that Dallas offer? Not sure.
Miami needs to be a sleeper. They are a big game hunter. I could see them sneaky going after Kyrie. But they may have more interest in KD though. a Butler, Bam plus Kyrie is an interesting mix. Especially with Miami's ability to develop players.
Minny is desperate and is there any chance Kyrie stays there?
So just with quick thinking without anything to go off, I would list the favorites as
1) Lakers
2) Heat
3) Mavs
4) Suns
5) Minny
(02-03-2023, 04:13 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe I am completly off on Claxton´s value but I think he is worth more than Kyrie. Vegas has him 2nd in the DPOY race.
Yeah, ZERO chance Claxton gets into this deal. None.
If the Mavs trade for Irving it has a good chance of becoming the dumbest thing they’ve ever done, and that’s saying something.
-He’s crazy
-He doesn’t seem to enjoy competing in the NBA for a team anymore
-He can still play, but he’s 31.
-He’s not going to want to play second fiddle to Luka, and even if they get along he can damage the kid’s outlook and professionalism significantly
-it’s going to cost Hardy, Green or both, for sure, and probably a 1st that the Mavs shouldn’t trade
Please, DO NOT DO THIS
(02-03-2023, 04:55 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Tyler has a 3 way on another site that doesn’t require bigs…
Bullock for Reddish and Dallas gets their 23 pick back. The pick, SD and THJ go to Brooklyn for Kyrie with Dallas ending up with Reddish and Kyrie. Woj doesn’t think the offers will be that strong and this would qualify. But, it gives Brooklyn a pick and a useful PG to replace KI. It gives Dallas cap relief in moving off of THJ. Yeah, Brooklyn would have a lot of non-defenders in Harris, THJ, Curry, but they’d also have two firsts in 23 and could parlay some of those salaries and picks into an upgrade elsewhere.
Adding intrigue to speculation, the Kyrie news also potentially paints the report that Dinwiddie may miss the game tomorrow for "injury recovery" (on a non-B2B game) in a new light.
I think they want in and will give up whatever they have (despite the report of not wanting to give up a lot of assets). Kyrie is the type of superstar that Cuban has always wanted and envisioned when making Nico the GM. But it just depends on what the other teams can offer...they probably have more
(02-03-2023, 05:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If the Mavs trade for Irving it has a good chance of becoming the dumbest thing they’ve ever done, and that’s saying something.
-He’s crazy
-He doesn’t seem to enjoy competing in the NBA for a team anymore
-He can still play, but he’s 31.
-He’s not going to want to play second fiddle to Luka, and even if they get along he can damage the kid’s outlook and professionalism significantly
-it’s going to cost Hardy, Green or both, for sure, and probably a 1st that the Mavs shouldn’t trade
Please, DO NOT DO THIS
I understand the frustrations but...many of this points are pretty far off base.
When he is on the floor, the guy competes, there's very little sign otherwise. He has played in 80% of the games this year and it would be more if not for the suspension.
The general consensus from both sides of this reporting says your valuation of what this will cost is pretty far off base. If we move Green and/or picks for Kyrie, I'll grab my pitchforks with you but there is very little evidence right now of that being the case.
He's also played second fiddle his entire career outside of two seasons in Boston so I don't think that would be an issue here.
There are major concerns for sure, but we're talking about a guy who has absolutely earned that all star starter spot this year. This just feels like a dangerous receipt to leave around is all...
Im assuming since there is SO much back lash with Kyrie and his beliefs, loyalty to team, that he wont work out here as to prove some point as symbolism.
Its trash.
He is so much better than what we have.
But...hang your hat on something to prove management wrong or inept.
He leaves for a destination city. He was never loyal.
If there isnt a perfect scenario for Irving to be happy...at what point do you consider scenarios where he might be happy or willing to participate at a high level for a year or two?
At what point do you get a better player to POSSIBLY win hardware?
He seems like the perfect player to obtain hardware unless there are some weird, crazy scenarios that trump his current stigma of being weird.
(02-03-2023, 05:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If the Mavs trade for Irving it has a good chance of becoming the dumbest thing they’ve ever done, and that’s saying something.
-He’s crazy
-He doesn’t seem to enjoy competing in the NBA for a team anymore
-He can still play, but he’s 31.
-He’s not going to want to play second fiddle to Luka, and even if they get along he can damage the kid’s outlook and professionalism significantly
-it’s going to cost Hardy, Green or both, for sure, and probably a 1st that the Mavs shouldn’t trade
Please, DO NOT DO THIS
Right here with you.
Yet this seems like the exact thing the IIC will do.