MavsBoard

At the end of the day, the Mavs probaby need to move Wood one way or another. He’s probably not coming back next year, and I’m sure the Mavs hate the idea of losing another asset with nothing to show.

(12-13-2022, 12:06 AM)ThisIStheYear Wrote: [ -> ]At the end of the day, the Mavs probaby need to move Wood one way or another. He’s probably not coming back next year, and I’m sure the Mavs hate the idea of losing another asset with nothing to show.

Let him fulfill his potential with a real org.

(12-12-2022, 08:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Either way, at the end of the day, if we're talking about a player who can ONLY play his BEST position when Kleber is on the floor, I think it's a pointless acquisition. 

Counter:  It depends on the cost of the acquisition.

(12-13-2022, 12:49 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Counter:  It depends on the cost of the acquisition.

Sure, that's valid.

I'm just saying, the best teams are organized in such a way where their 5-7 (and ideally more than that) best players happen to fit well together. 

All of this "he fits with that guy, but not so well with him" isn't going to get it done in the long run. A truly great team, if, say, they want to go smaller, well, they can just remove their center and add a bench guard or forward to the mix and create a completely new dynamic with that one substitution, BUT they all still know how to play together because it's only a minor change (and they've probably been together for a while, honestly). 

It's late so I'm probably not articulating this so well. But, I think we've talked a ton this summer about "flexibility" and I think we've been drastically missing the boat on what type of flexibility is actually advantageous. What you want is to have individual players with flexibility (like Luka, Kleber, DFS) who can be mixed and matched in different combos to create flexibility through play style, but while still playing your best players.

(12-13-2022, 01:03 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, that's valid.

I'm just saying, the best teams are organized in such a way where their 5-7 (and ideally more than that) best players happen to fit well together. 

All of this "he fits with that guy, but not so well with him" isn't going to get it done in the long run. A truly great team, if, say, they want to go smaller, well, they can just remove their center and add a bench guard or forward to the mix and create a completely new dynamic with that one substitution, BUT they all still know how to play together because it's only a minor change (and they've probably been together for a while, honestly). 

It's late so I'm probably not articulating this so well. But, I think we've talked a ton this summer about "flexibility" and I think we've been drastically missing the boat on what type of flexibility is actually advantageous. What you want is to have individual players with flexibility (like Luka, Kleber, DFS) who can be mixed and matched in different combos to create flexibility through play style, but while still playing your best players.

I don't actually think that's true.
I think real great teams have so much talent they overcome fit and overlap issues.
And they have very good players that make themself fit into a lesser role than they should have.

(12-13-2022, 01:17 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I don't actually think that's true.
I think real great teams have so much talent they overcome fit and overlap issues.
And they have very good players that make themself fit into a lesser role than they should have.

With respect, this doesn’t really address my point, so I guess I didn’t articulate it well enough.

(12-13-2022, 04:25 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]With respect, this doesn’t really address my point, so I guess I didn’t articulate it well enough.

Or I didn't read good enough.

I like teams with specific roles, maybe I just don't like to much flexibility in one player rolewise.

(12-12-2022, 08:55 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]And I would still disagree with that argument, including its assessment of how Wood is being played NOW, so I'm not sure what the point is. When they play together, I think it's crystal clear that Wood is playing 5 more often than not, and I think the determining factor has more to do with matching in transition than it does with any system preference. 

Either way, at the end of the day, if we're talking about a player who can ONLY play his BEST position when Kleber is on the floor, I think it's a pointless acquisition. The goal should be for your top 6-9 players (as deep as possible) to be interchangeable in a variety of ways to create different combinations/styles. THAT is "flexibility."  This notion of certain guys being joined at the hip is basically just another way of saying you don't have the players you need to win.

---

And don't get me wrong, regardless of the semantic position debate, I don't disagree that Kleber is a better fit next to Collins (and Wood) than Capela, for example. That's specifically because Collins and Wood both have games that fit much better as 5's in my opinion, but I do agree with you. 

But, then people say "but hold on, you can only play Kleber 25 minutes a game!" 

It's just not a road that leads to where I'm hoping they're going, as a fan.

If I understand you right, your preference for a center is somebody mobile enough to play a switch heavy defense while big enough to handle the center position while having a good enough offensive game (ideally including stretching the floor) to warrant being in the starting lineup.  That is a really difficult player to find.  I am guessing somebody like JJJ would be your ideal, but ironically he plays a lot of minutes with a traditional center (Steven Adams).

I feel like most of the guys that will be mobile enough to play switch heavy will be undersized for a center, and most of them would benefit from playing next to somebody like Maxi.  That does not mean they have to, but I think your desire to avoid drop coverage makes it difficult to build a roster, especially at the center position.

I don't think Wood has a future here, even tho I like his skillset. I think his style isn't a fit and I don't believe he will be playable in the playoffs either.

Collins fits Mavs style and since he is overpaid he appears to be gettable without a first round pick.

Some kind of Wood-based package makes sense to me.

If you are able to not have to send a rotation player (which remains to be seen) your playoff rotation is probably:
Luka, SD, THJ, DFS, Collins, Maxi, Green, Bullock.

Mavs need a better long-term solution for an additional playmaker but I think similar to last year this lineup can make you competitive. Mavs need guys that can move their feet to run teams off the 3 point line and on the other end they jack up a bunch of 3s. For now their strategy to win is to hit a decent percentage of those and lean on Luka to play at an MVP level.

(12-13-2022, 11:19 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Wood has a future here, even tho I like his skillset. I think his style isn't a fit and I don't believe he will be playable in the playoffs either.

Collins fits Mavs style and since he is overpaid he appears to be gettable without a first round pick.

Some kind of Wood-based package makes sense to me.

If you are able to not have to send a rotation player (which remains to be seen) your playoff rotation is probably:
Luka, SD, THJ, DFS, Collins, Maxi, Green, Bullock.

Mavs need a better long-term solution for an additional playmaker but I think similar to last year this lineup can make you competitive. Mavs need guys that can move their feet to run teams off the 3 point line and on the other end they jack up a bunch of 3s. For now their strategy to win is to hit a decent percentage of those and lean on Luka to play at an MVP level.

It will be really interesting to see how the Mavs view him.  I think if they don't view him as a piece here moving forward that they will look to aggressively move him.   I don't think they will keep like they did with Jalen.  The question is can he get a guy like Collins or Vucevic (short term trial) for him?   Or is it either a bad contract or minimal asset type of deal that you get back for him?

Let’s combine the two Detroit rumors and do Noel/Bogdanovic for THJ/Wood.  Saves $5mm this season and helps toward the use of the full MLE this summer if they go that route.  Bogdanovic has adds much more creation to the offense than THJ without really giving up anything anywhere else.

(12-13-2022, 12:01 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Let’s combine the two Detroit rumors and do Noel/Bogdanovic for THJ/Wood.  Saves $5mm this season and helps toward the use of the full MLE this summer if they go that route.  Bogdanovic has adds much more creation to the offense than THJ without really giving up anything anywhere else.

I would not hate that, but would greatly prefer Collins if there is any chance.

(12-13-2022, 10:57 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like most of the guys that will be mobile enough to play switch heavy will be undersized for a center, and most of them would benefit from playing next to somebody like Maxi.  That does not mean they have to, but I think your desire to avoid drop coverage makes it difficult to build a roster, especially at the center position.

Yes, a big part of this is just how people's ideals differ for the position. I think there are a limited number of players in the league who can play center the way I'm describing, sure, but I also feel like the teams who have them are generally going to do better than the teams who don't. 

JJJ is a great example, good call. I think it's dumb to play him next to Adams. I thought it was dumb to play AD next to Dwight Howard to start games back during the bubble. This is something others (including those coaches, apparently) are free to disagree with, but I don't take the value of that strategy to heart just because some teams are doing it. In every case, their seasons end with the right player playing center, giving them an athletic advantage over opponents. So, regardless on where you fall on the "save them from wear and tear" spectrum, I think we'd all agree that their teams need to spend time LEARNING how to play in those lineup scenarios I'm talking about. 

What frustrated me about the Mavs' summer is that I thought their center rotation last year, while under intense scrutiny here and on twitter, was one of the positives that got them to the WCF. I think it was good they didn't have a dinosaur out there EVER. Sure, Powell had a rough go of it in the playoffs, but I'm not convinced that it was because "he can't play in the playoffs." I think it's possible he might have just been run down, in a slump, maybe even hurt. I actually think the kind of defense he plays should translate nicely to playoff basketball, myself. Could be wrong about that, but maybe we'll see this season. 

Anyway, when they added Wood, I thought "Wow, a 3rd center option who makes it even easier to keep that play-style that has been so effective for them going even more comfortably, and THIS one can really help on offense!" It seemed like a dream acquisition at the time. Had I known they intended to use him to go away from what worked I'd have not been excited about the trade one bit. 

In the playoffs, the second biggest player on the court for the opponent is going to be Jerami Grant...Lebron...Kawhi Leonard...etc. Guys Wood cannot hang with and who are custom made to defend him. He'll literally just be a spacer, because Luka isn't risking a switch onto those guys (should be obvious to anyone who has watched the Mavs play since Luka got here) and they will still single him out on the other end, regardless of whether you guys feel better about having Kleber with him or not.

If a big is a bad defender, he's going to get attacked. Period. Therefore, either he gets better at defense or you can't play him at a certain point. If those are the stakes, and they ARE, then let him try to get better on defense at the position for which he's suited. He COULD be a passable defensive center with coaching, experience and time, even if you think it's a long shot. He will NEVER be a passable defensive forward because he doesn't have the athletic requirements.

Just throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. Would love to move on from each of Bullock/Wood/THjr/DFS/Dinwiddie at this point. 

Just keep Green and Hardy. We NEED some production from rookie scale contracts. 

The second you can shed money on of Bertans/McGee without paying assets you also have to jump on it.

Would love Collins or S. Bey here. No on Bojan for a first, we can’t pretend that we’re a contender right now and completely mortgage our future on non-allstars. Also: some minutes have to go to young players otherwise you’re forced to build a completely new team out of nothing within a few years.

If there is something obscene available like a Beal-trade just eff it and do it. We need our own Joe Johnson-trade. The time to build a well structured payroll has LONG passed. We’re now in the roster building endgame of putting stuff around Luka. If this season goes south the national media will be all over us next summer about Luka being in a shitty situation. From that moment everything gets complicated and dissected even more than already.

We gotta pull this thing out the mud…

(12-13-2022, 12:47 PM)JamesConway912 Wrote: [ -> ]Just keep Green and Hardy.

I'm REALLY worried that one of these dudes is going to get thrown into a trade for a late 20's, early 30's win-now type that this board will hate. Like, super worried.

(12-13-2022, 12:48 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm REALLY worried that one of these dudes is going to get thrown into a trade for a late 20's, early 30's win-now type that this board will hate. Like, super worried.

Yeah, I need to be honest when I see he was out with an elbow injury it got me worried.   I don't think he will be traded but you can bet every team is asking for either him or Hardy in any of these deals.  I will be really disappointed if they had any intention of moving on from either.