MavsBoard

Definitely lots of red flags on Simmons but he's been playing out of position on a broken team who just fired their coach. Despite the obvious issues, I'm interested for a number of reasons.

First, the Mavs are just an odd duck with a 6' 8" point guard. It makes roster construction challenging and leads to a cascade of roll playing specialists to fill gaps.

You want secondary creator / scorer next to Doncic, so the Mavs use Dinwiddie or THJ and both are capable, but neither is a strong on-ball defender.... So you start Bullock to guard the point of attack and rotate Green. By then your nearly out of SF minutes so have to go smallish with DFS at PF.... Wood has issues as the lone big, so you start McGee. 

That means Wood and Kleber come off the bench... but then your rotations are all hosed up to close games. 

DFS and Kleber are strong defensive closers, so Wood can't close unless you you bench Bullock or DFS ... or unless you bench your secondary creator / scorer. It can work, but it's just a mess and not ideal. It's not surprising that the "fifth closer" spot is up for grabs.

Simmons for THJ + Powell or Bertans has the potential to solve a lot of problems for both teams to be honest.

Wasn't Simmons at his best when he was the primary handler/creator?

(11-02-2022, 01:32 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Wasn't Simmons at his best when he was the primary handler/creator?

We already have a pass happy ball handler that doesnt want to shoot.

(11-02-2022, 01:32 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Wasn't Simmons at his best when he was the primary handler/creator?

In a lot of ways, yes. Luka wants to shoot these days, so let BS pass to him.

(11-02-2022, 01:10 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]This does feel a bit like a Mav’s type move.  My guess would be THJ/Powell for Simmons and one of the many $2mm guys off the Brooklyn Roster like Sharpe or Thomas.

I’d add to your list the ability to play alongside Wood defensively with size.   Wood/Maxi seems to work.  Defensively, Wood/Simmons would also work.  Obviously, Simmons isn’t the three point shooter Maxi is, but can he play on-ball some in lineups with Wood?  A big-big PnR or PnPop?  Simmons would essentially be a ‘point-center’ or ‘point-four’ depending on what you consider Wood. Replacing THJ with a plus defender would probably also allow you to get some minutes out of Bertans.

All of this is theoretical of course.  None of us know what 22/23 Simmons would look like here.  It is a huge gamble and we are playing with Luka’s future if they don’t get this one right.  Simmons doesn’t look right, but the give up is what?  Hardaway?  If it worked, you could have Simmons/Wood as your starting 4/5 for basically THJ and a late first (which you got back in the form of Thomas or Sharpe).  If it doesn’t work?  Heads roll and Luka is in LA in a few years.

Its hard to see Simmons be even remotely useful on offense unless he has the ball in his hands.  Not sure how you play him and Luka on the court together.  Maybe Luka plays off ball and gets an offensive breather, but I'm skeptical.  I do not see Simmons suddenly learning how to be a roll man.

Maybe Simmons is ok playing with Wood defensively, but you don't have a true rim protector in that case.  

Simmons looks terrible and the fit seems bad, but it would be hard not to pull the trigger if its just Timmy/Powell.  There is crazy upside there.  If it does not work, we wouldn't be completely dead.  We would still have enough salary filler and picks to make a big trade.

(11-02-2022, 01:38 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]We would still have enough salary filler and picks to make a big trade.

BS as an expiring salary match would allow the Mavs to go "all in" for a star player.

(11-02-2022, 01:36 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]In a lot of ways, yes. Luka wants to shoot these days, so let BS pass to him.

I just don't see how our situation is any different than the Nets.  Kyrie/KD are ball dominant.  So is Luka.  So how does Simmons thrive here?

(11-02-2022, 01:46 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how our situation is any different than the Nets.  Kyrie/KD are ball dominant.  So is Luka.  So how does Simmons thrive here?

Nets currently have THREE ball dominant guys.

Mavs have ONE and people have been begging for a second.

Reshuffle the deck and possibly tank for Victor.

Mavs get:
Simmons
Westbrook
Cam Thomas
Lakers 2027 FRP
76ers 2023 FRP from Nets

Nets get:
Dinwiddie
Hardaway
Green
Bullock
Bertans

Lakers get:
Kyrie
DPowell
Frankie Smokes

(11-02-2022, 01:38 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Its hard to see Simmons be even remotely useful on offense unless he has the ball in his hands.  Not sure how you play him and Luka on the court together.  Maybe Luka plays off ball and gets an offensive breather, but I'm skeptical.  I do not see Simmons suddenly learning how to be a roll man.

Can't speak for anyone else, but this is THE question for me. 

If the plan would be to take the ball out of Luka's hands and give it to Simmons (other than in transition, from time to time) then I'm OUT. 

If the plan is to play him at the 4/5 and make him a screener (something I've seen him do, though not a ton) and he's amenable to that with the right attitude, I think I'm still in. If he can regain his former level, he adds a new level of dynamic athletic ability and becomes one of the most effective switch defenders in the league. 

Lot of "ifs," I'll admit. Gotta trust that the Mavs feel strongly it can work if they do it. For the record, I doubt they're interested. The financial side, alone, makes me question whether he's a Mavs fit.

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(11-02-2022, 01:44 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]BS as an expiring salary match would allow the Mavs to go "all in" for a star player.

So next year is his last? I didn't even think to check earlier, but that would change the equation for me quite a bit.

Mavs cant even figure out how to get Green more minutes...

and we expect them to solve the Simmons puzzle?

Im on crazy pills I guess.

(11-02-2022, 01:10 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]This does feel a bit like a Mav’s type move.  My guess would be THJ/Powell for Simmons and one of the many $2mm guys off the Brooklyn Roster like Sharpe or Thomas.

I’d add to your list the ability to play alongside Wood defensively with size.   Wood/Maxi seems to work.  Defensively, Wood/Simmons would also work.  Obviously, Simmons isn’t the three point shooter Maxi is, but can he play on-ball some in lineups with Wood?  A big-big PnR or PnPop?  Simmons would essentially be a ‘point-center’ or ‘point-four’ depending on what you consider Wood. Replacing THJ with a plus defender would probably also allow you to get some minutes out of Bertans.

All of this is theoretical of course.  None of us know what 22/23 Simmons would look like here.  It is a huge gamble and we are playing with Luka’s future if they don’t get this one right.  Simmons doesn’t look right, but the give up is what?  Hardaway?  If it worked, you could have Simmons/Wood as your starting 4/5 for basically THJ and a late first (which you got back in the form of Thomas or Sharpe).  If it doesn’t work?  Heads roll and Luka is in LA in a few years.

I wouldn't do anything better than THJ + Bertans. Simmons' value to me is very similar to KP's last year when the Mavs had to trade him for bad contracts.

(11-02-2022, 02:11 PM)RasheedsBigWhiteSpot Wrote: [ -> ]Reshuffle the deck and possibly tank for Victor.

Mavs get:
Simmons
Westbrook
Cam Thomas
Lakers 2027 FRP
76ers 2023 FRP from Nets

Nets get:
Dinwiddie
Hardaway
Green
Bullock
Bertans

Lakers get:
Kyrie
DPowell
Frankie Smokes

When you see that the Mavs are not sending out a single asset but somehow getting 2 FRP, you should probably realize that you are looking at a one sided deal.  The Nets are not going to send out a first to get off Simmons and the Lakers are clearly not giving up a first to get off Russ.  

Also, any plan to tank with Luka Doncic on the team is completely failed from the start.  On top of that, I can't think of a better way to chase Luka from here than to trade away the entire team for two disasters and a couple of magic beans, tell him to lose for the rest of the year, and then depend on this FO to make hay in free agency.

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(11-02-2022, 02:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]So next year is his last? I didn't even think to check earlier, but that would change the equation for me quite a bit.

No, he has one more year after that, but we could wait another season if necessary to make that big trade.

(11-02-2022, 12:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]But, he might do that.

I feel like this is a dangerous line of thinking when it comes to roster building. I can reason that the Mavs should trade for just about any has-been star that can remotely work because they "might" resemble the player they once were. 

Simmons has regressed basically every single year since he was drafted. This isn't new.  His rookie year he actually shot the ball and now he passes up wide open dunks in a transition break. 

At some point we have to detach ourselves from what could be and look at what he really is, a mentally broken player who is perfectly contempt with coasting and folds at a modicum of a challenge. He had everything catered to him in Philly and all they did was to ask him to be more aggressive. 

No thank you to any deal. I wouldn't even take the headcase on at a nonguaranteed minimum deal where for some reason he paid Cuban for the privilege of being on the team. Same goes with Kyrie.

Simmons was an All-Star as a big point guard in Philly. I could definitely see him initiating the offense to open games. This gets Luka off the ball early and reduces his usage like everyone wants. Then Simmons can check out at the six minute mark and run the offense again when Luka sits. 

Luka will have plenty of time to cook in crunch time. 

Obviously Simmons has to play better but don't forget Kidd tried to turn Michael Carter-Williams into a stud in Milwaukee and Simmons is 10x better today than MCW ever was. I mean, Simmons is a big PG who can't shoot but is a game changing defender. I just think Kidd would lose his mind, especially if it only costs THJ and Powell as neither are Kidd-type players anyway.

I hold off on Simmons until I see more.   If that means, you don't buy low....that is the gamble.

I see a guy who really does not look like he enjoys playing basketball.   I also see a guy who is absolutely petrified to get fouled.  Those are bad signs.  To be honest with you, I would feel better if he had a game where he went 2-12 from the free throw line or went 0-7 from 3.  From my initial watching his teammates don't know what to make of him either.    I just can't gamble him at this time.

(11-02-2022, 02:24 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]So next year is his last? I didn't even think to check earlier, but that would change the equation for me quite a bit.

Year after. Same as THJ.

(11-02-2022, 01:57 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Nets currently have THREE ball dominant guys.

Mavs have ONE and people have been begging for a second.

Dinwiddie am sad.  I bet Luka's usage rate is close to KD/Kyrie's combined.

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Josh Green and Ben Simmons deciding who should take the open shot.

(11-02-2022, 03:43 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I bet Luka's usage rate is close to KD/Kyrie's combined.

33.4% for KD. 30.0% for KI.

40.9% for Luka.

We can trade them Bullock so he can hang out with Kyrie and other like minded individuals.