I just don't see how a guy like Collins moves the needle for this team anymore than Wood.
Sure his defense is a little better, but Wood is a better scorer. Both are 3rd/4th guys at best. I'm not against it, but it depends on what we're giving up there.
Maybe ATL will be interested in a Collins+Capela for THJ+Bullock+McGee+1st
Mavs and Hawks swap 2 bad contracts. Hawks get a first. Mavs shore up their big man rotation. Hawks also basically get free reign to trade Bogdan now with THJ sitting in the wings.
(12-12-2022, 02:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how a guy like Collins moves the needle for this team anymore than Wood.
I actually
prefer Wood, I think, but if Collins can be played 30+ minutes and finish games (in Kidd's mind) then I think it's easy to see how that trade would benefit the team, tbh.
And, the contract could be a positive or a negative, based on POV. It would mean the chance of losing him for nothing this summer goes away, which could be a great improvement over Wood, if the fit is good.
(12-12-2022, 02:27 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I just don't see how a guy like Collins moves the needle for this team anymore than Wood.
Sure his defense is a little better, but Wood is a better scorer. Both are 3rd/4th guys at best. I'm not against it, but it depends on what we're giving up there.
Maybe ATL will be interested in a Collins+Capela for THJ+Bullock+McGee+1st
Mavs and Hawks swap 2 bad contracts. Hawks get a first. Mavs shore up their big man rotation. Hawks also basically get free reign to trade Bogdan now with THJ sitting in the wings.
The only other nugget in the Collins piece of the Shams article is that they aren't interesting in taking on Joe Harris so I feel like they are just searching for cap relief.
To me I would be happy with Collins over Woods because I think that while the talent level may be equal, the defensive effort Collins gives will allow him to be on the floor more minutes that Woods in our current system so he could have a more impactful role here. The other reason is that I don't trust this FO to keep Woods around after this season so I'd rather have a commitment past this year to someone at that talent level. The commitment is pretty pricey for sure but that's also the reason we can probably get him without giving up picks.
Wood/Bullock for Collins still just makes a lot of sense for both teams.
(12-12-2022, 02:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I actually prefer Wood, I think, but if Collins can be played 30+ minutes and finish games (in Kidd's mind) then I think it's easy to see how that trade would benefit the team, tbh.
And, the contract could be a positive or a negative, based on POV. It would mean the chance of losing him for nothing this summer goes away, which could be a great improvement over Wood, if the fit is good.
Well now I feel like I wrote all my words for nothing. Or I just need to learn how to type faster.
Who do you kick out of the starting line-up, if you trade for Collins? I don't think it would be Powell.
(12-12-2022, 02:51 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Who do you kick out of the starting line-up, if you trade for Collins? I don't think it would be Powell.
Luka/Green/DFS/Collins/Powell with Dinwiddie/Hardaway coming in early for Green/Powell would be my preference but Hardaway playing well in a starting role definitely seems to have something to it...
(12-12-2022, 02:54 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Luka/Green/DFS/Collins/Powell with Dinwiddie/Hardaway
Give me....
Luka/THJ/DFS/JC/Maxi with SD/JG/DP the main three off the bench.
(12-12-2022, 02:57 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Give me....
Luka/THJ/DFS/JC/Maxi with SD/JG/DP the main three off the bench.
I like this lineup more and hope that it would be closing games (would potentially swap Green for THJ still). Mine is just coming from the assumption that we're never going to start Maxi at this point to conserve him.
I also think that a lineup of Luka/Green/THJ/DFS/Collins could work and prove to be pretty unguardable. I think Collins has a lot more potential as a solo big than Wood does but I could also see him getting here and Kidd deciding otherwise.
I don’t want to trade Wood, but if it’s JC for Wood/Bullock I can’t deny that is solves many problems.
(12-12-2022, 02:51 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Who do you kick out of the starting line-up, if you trade for Collins? I don't think it would be Powell.
Would
easily be either Powell or Dinwiddie, for me. No telling what Kidd would do though.
Any chance we could convince Atlanta they need our Steve Austin to go with Wood!!!!
The other thing about the two for one move is that it would kind of force us to throw some minutes Hardy's way. There's little chance of him getting into a playoff rotation but would love to see him get some regular season minutes next to Luka to understand what we have there.
(12-12-2022, 03:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Would easily be either Powell or Dinwiddie, for me. No telling what Kidd would do though.
I think there is no way Mavs would see Collins as center.
(12-12-2022, 03:26 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I think there is no way Mavs would see Collins as center.
Based on how they're seeing Wood (so far), I don't think they'd play him by himself there, either, in any sort of regular way. Maybe in small ball situations.
And, I think, like the situation with Wood, that's a little backwards of them and would curb his effectiveness quite a bit.
BUT, unlike Wood, I think Collins CAN play the 4 with a center. It's probably not the most advantageous way of highlighting his skills, but Wood flat out can't do it, imho. Wood is 100% center.
(12-12-2022, 03:29 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Based on how they're seeing Wood (so far), I don't think they'd play him by himself there, either, in any sort of regular way. Maybe in small ball situations.
And, I think, like the situation with Wood, that's a little backwards of them and would curb his effectiveness quite a bit.
BUT, unlike Wood, I think Collins CAN play the 4 with a center. It's probably not the most advantageous way of highlighting his skills, but Wood flat out can't do it, imho. Wood is 100% center.
Curious what people think of WHY Wood doesn't play center here. To me when you see him out there, he should be able to hold his own physically as much as Powell can. I feel it's that he doesn't know how to make the right rotations or be that anchor who is vocal.
(Random tangent on that last thing before my next point, I was lucky enough to sit right behind the Nugs bench in our last game up here and was able to here things that were being said on the court and the two most vocal dudes on defense for us were Powell...and Mr Wood himself so I know he's trying to be that guy. Also, Mike Malone knew all our plays as soon as Luka threw up the hand signal, wasn't surprising but it was cool to see in real time.)
My hope is that Collins can fit into the system as an anchor a little better than Wood does just because he seems like a smarter player. That said, I do think it would be just us going to small ball situations the way we do now with Wood and not a game to game occurence but I think we'd be more willing try small ball with Collins than we are willing to today with Wood.
(12-12-2022, 03:40 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Curious what people think of WHY Wood doesn't play center here.
I don't get it either, because he's playing center for the majority of the time he's on the court.
Kleber is the one who's versatile, imho.
I've just about given up arguing about it at this point though. I think Wood is so clearly a 5 it's hardly worth discussing. I get the notion that you might want someone with more size than DFS out there to support him, but even that is something I wouldn't take on intuition. I would have given Wood as a lone 5 in a more skilled lineup a real shot by now, for sure. It might still happen, but it's starting to feel hopeless.
Bring him off the bench, sure. Only increase his minutes if/when he starts to adhere to team defensive schemes, of course. BUT, give him SOME minutes in the role that could
potentially make the team actually dangerous. If he can't play the 5 (which he can, it's just a matter of how well) he can't be in the NBA, from my perspective, because I KNOW he's not up to playing against good teams as a freaking FORWARD.
I made this same declaration about Porzingis, and people argued back then, too. To be fair, that one was even more obvious than this situation with Wood, so I guess I can see some of the confusion in this new case, but still...
(12-12-2022, 03:06 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t want to trade Wood, but if it’s JC for Wood/Bullock I can’t deny that is solves many problems.
What if you send Wood to ATL for Collins; and Bullock, McGee and pick(s) to DET for Noel?
(12-12-2022, 03:57 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]What if you send Wood to ATL for Collins; and Bullock, McGee and 2nds to DET for Noel?
If that were possible, I'd be in.
Powell is probably going to end up being the best center still, I'm sorry to say, but a 4 who can actually play 4 and a rotation center who's obviously much more able to contribute than McGee are both wins. This would probably mean Kleber becomes exclusively a 5 here, I'm guessing. So honestly, this would improve center play even without the Noel part.
For the record, I'm still pretty high on the mavs' bigs situation as is, with the exception of the McGee signing, which I hated more than any Mavs acquisition I can quickly recall.
At center, you have Powell, Wood and Kleber in rotation. A wide and diverse set of flexible skills.
At the 4, you have DFS and Kleber in rotation. Even Luka can play some here, honestly, and already does at times with cross matching. A wide and diverse set of flexible skills. Would be nice (but not absolutely necessary) to have a Patrick Williams, Jerami Grant, Paschal Siakim body type in the mix here, but then again, I'm honestly not sure how good DFS would be as a full-time 3. Certainly not 35-40 minutes per night good, I can promise that.
The problem is this stupid notion that Wood must be paired with another one from the center list. It's ruining any chance of using the players to comfortable effect. He's either good enough or he's not good enough, only I can't help but to feel like we're not proactively finding out. This is a rare take from me, because I normally fall on the side of the coach's perspective on arguments like this. I guess I just had a lot more respect for Carlisle's professional opinion than Kidd's. Maybe that's not fair. I guess time will tell.
Collins is a winning player. This season he has the best on/off +6.9 of all the Hawks starters, despite having a down year shooting, because he works hard for the team. That shows a good character imho, despite being on the trade block for 12 months.
They probably have to trade him, cause they need to carve out more minutes for Hunter/Okongwu/Griffin with the pending huge extension for Hunter, too.
If all it takes is Wood/Bullock, I think you have to do it. If you can somehow get Bogdanovic for Dinwiddie or THJ, it´s high way robbery.