(06-25-2022, 01:31 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]I can't believe you think that. Like NO WAY you believe that. Even if you think JB to be the superior offensive player, and to me that is close, you have to concede that Murray is elite defensively while JB is bottom 25% in the league. On top of that, JB is going to cost 10M more per the next two seasons... At the same cost on their contract, for THIS mavs team, I take murray 100/100.
I don’t even understand how you can have an opinion like this unless you just didn’t watch the playoffs.
(06-25-2022, 09:11 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t even understand how you can have an opinion like this unless you just didn’t watch the playoffs.
I am answering this because you asked. I think it is pretty self evident. I watched the playoffs. I also watched the regular season. And the last 25. I would think that it is overwhelmingly obvious that Murray is an objectively better player than Brunson. I also don't think that it is particularly close. JB has shot the 3 at a higher level, and is crafty in the lane. He has also had the benefit to play in the gravity of Luka, his playoff matchup with UTAH notwithstanding. I like JB, but Murray is a top 2way PG in this league. His all-around game is pretty excellent. You should try watching some of his games yourself. I don't say that as a slight. He is fun to watch and worth the time.
Look, I'd love to get Murray here if we were stupid enough to let Brunson go, but why are we even pretending that's possible.
(06-25-2022, 11:18 PM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]Look, I'd love to get Murray here if we were stupid enough to let Brunson go, but why are we even pretending that's possible.
One of my first comments stated that. This is a pipe dream scenario. I guess I am still engaged in it because a couple guys are thinking that JB is somehow better than Murray. It is intriguing.
Murray is one of the few players in the league i would empty the draft pick bucket to acquire. His two way ability would be a perfect fit and he’s still getting better.
Unfortunately to me this underscores why keeping JB is so important. A future package of JB and all the picks/pick swaps can get you in the conversation for a legit star. Without JB, your likely making moves around the margins and then forced to go plan powder and preserve space for 2025 FA.
(06-26-2022, 07:06 AM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately to me this underscores why keeping JB is so important. A future package of JB and all the picks/pick swaps can get you in the conversation for a legit star. Without JB, your likely making moves around the margins and then forced to go plan powder and preserve space for 2025 FA.
I think this is overstated. A Brunson contract would make it easier to trade for that final piece, but not necessary. It just means we will potentially have to send out more assets. In less than a year we will have access to all of our picks. We can send out 3 or 4 if we have to, and contracts like Dinwiddie and Timmy can be used in such a trade. We don't have to wait until 2025 with plan powder.
(06-26-2022, 08:12 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is overstated. A Brunson contract would make it easier to trade for that final piece, but not necessary. It just means we will potentially have to send out more assets. In less than a year we will have access to all of our picks. We can send out 3 or 4 if we have to, and contracts like Dinwiddie and Timmy can be used in such a trade. We don't have to wait until 2025 with plan powder.
Expiring contracts with no value (Dinwiddie, THJ types) plus picks is nowhere near enough for a star. Other teams have young players, recent draft picks to sweeten any deal. We literally have no attractive assets outside of Brunson.
(06-26-2022, 09:04 AM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Expiring contracts with no value (Dinwiddie, THJ types) plus picks is nowhere near enough for a star. Other teams have young players, recent draft picks to sweeten any deal. We literally have no attractive assets outside of Brunson.
This is not correct. The Bucks traded for Jrue Holiday (the perfect pairing with Luka) for Bledsoe and George Hill. That is not any better than Dinwiddie + THJ (probably worse).
(06-25-2022, 11:30 PM)Mavsfan12 Wrote: [ -> ]One of my first comments stated that. This is a pipe dream scenario. I guess I am still engaged in it because a couple guys are thinking that JB is somehow better than Murray. It is intriguing.
We love our boys in blue. Sometimes it clouds our thinking.
(06-26-2022, 10:12 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]This is not correct. The Bucks traded for Jrue Holiday (the perfect pairing with Luka) for Bledsoe and George Hill. That is not any better than Dinwiddie + THJ (probably worse).
Holiday wasn’t valued back then the way he would be now. The general reaction at the time was that MIL overpaid and acted out of desperation to keep Giannis. He’s a good example of buy low that worked out, but i’m more thinking of Durant/Lillard level of player who’s going to create a bidding war.
(06-26-2022, 02:09 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Holiday wasn’t valued back then the way he would be now. The general reaction at the time was that MIL overpaid and acted out of desperation to keep Giannis. He’s a good example of buy low that worked out, but i’m more thinking of Durant/Lillard level of player who’s going to create a bidding war.
I agree 100% that Jrue was perfect for Luka. Mil got him for a bag of peanuts.
(06-26-2022, 03:53 PM)nash_funk Wrote: [ -> ]Mil got him for a bag of peanuts.
Great player, but...A BAG OF PEANUTS????
It was a huge package. Huge. Way, WAY more than Dallas could offer at the time, draft capital wise.
(06-26-2022, 02:09 PM)Okstate819 Wrote: [ -> ]Holiday wasn’t valued back then the way he would be now. The general reaction at the time was that MIL overpaid and acted out of desperation to keep Giannis. He’s a good example of buy low that worked out, but i’m more thinking of Durant/Lillard level of player who’s going to create a bidding war.
He wasn't? This sounds like narrative. He was 29 and well into his prime. He has been roughly the same player for the Bucks as he was for New Orleans. The reality is that quality defense is generally under valued in the market, and what we need next to Luka is a good offensive player that can do some playmaking and some creation but importantly a high level perimeter defender. That player will be gettable when we have access to our picks.
(06-26-2022, 04:04 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]He wasn't? This sounds like narrative. He was 29 and well into his prime. He has been roughly the same player for the Bucks as he was for New Orleans. The reality is that quality defense is generally under valued in the market, and what we need next to Luka is a good offensive player that can do some playmaking and some creation but importantly a high level perimeter defender. That player will be gettable when we have access to our picks.
No argument that Jrue would be ideal. To me, Dejounte Murray is a younger Jrue in many ways. Regarding trading for such a piece, I think the asking price of 3 1sts and John Collins highlights how unrealistic it would be to think expirings plus picks could get you there.