(02-05-2023, 10:59 AM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Is Maxi not included for a reason or by accident?
By accident, i forgot him
mvossman
The problem with a core of Luka/Russell/Wood is that the team will never be good enough defensively to be a contender. It's the same problem with our current (worse) core of Luka/Dinwiddie/Wood. Also, Minnesota is going to want a playmaker back, so the only route to Russell is Spencer.
I agree with you. I still think that we will need to make at least 1 big trade after that to become true contender. I'm just afraid that even getting Siakam or Anuoby wouldn't solve the problem we have on the backcourt after JB left.
We would have similar problems as we have it now, there just no one who can organize a game when Luka is off.
(02-05-2023, 11:06 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]I didn't see anything special with Kidd's coaching even from last season. He improved the defense. But I'm assuming that's more on motivating players than strategy.
I'm not speaking for the rest of the Kidd critics, but my gripe with him isn't stemming from the Wood handling alone. It's his sloth like reactions during a game. It's his idIOtic "give-it-10-days-and-we'll-see-from-there" trials for McGee. It's his over reliance on THJ, RB and DFS and the late decision to extend Green's minutes. It's his non existing plays. It's his lineups. It's the in-bound plays. It's the fouling game where he turns games into FT shooting contest when even his star player couldn't hit free throws.
Last second plays are just hilarious. The Mavs are too predictable.
If the Mavs want to move forward, Kidd needs to go.
There's no need to handicap this team even further with a coach who doesn't do his job well enough.
We struggled plenty of times with RC also in late games. Even the season where everyone was raving about the historical offense, I remember us struggling to get good shots off when the games got tight late. Most of our victories seemed to be Luka jacking up a shot with time running out that went in.
So we would have gone through two coaches. One an acknowledged Xs and Os guy. The other, a savant on the court, but as a coach wants players to figure out things for themselves. What next? Don’t forget RC leaving here was also due to him realizing he didn’t have Luka’s ear. Plus other reports came out that he was mocking RC over lineups.
That’s why I have not got worked up over Kidd’s coaching. Two things need to change here. Better talent so that coaches can call plays that defenses have to respect. Luka’s willingness to be a decoy and move without the ball. To me the 2nd one directly depends upon the first. Else the talent disparity is so much that Luka feels even a bad shot he takes is better than a good shot by someone else.
This is not a defense about Kidd as much as pointing out that many here are either forgetting or ignoring that even with a great technical coach like RC things were not as great as we want to believe, both in terms of close game plays and in terms of the superstar here craving for that type of a coach.
(02-05-2023, 10:37 AM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]"Willing" is a complicated word.
Do I want to give him 4 years? Definitely not. Could I get excited about the possibilities and talk myself into it? Absolutely.
What if you trade for him and he says I'm sitting out until you give me the 4 year max?
(02-05-2023, 11:45 AM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: [ -> ]What if you trade for him and he says I'm sitting out until you give me the 4 year max?
Tell him that JFK Jr returns if he signs for the MLE.
(02-05-2023, 07:51 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]No. But the 2 year extension would be fine.
I bet there are a lot of teams (including Brooklyn, maybe) who would be willing to go that far with him.
The whole reason for the trade request is that he wants his full, 4-year max. He's trying desperately to get his Bird Rights to a team willing to give that to him. That's the ENTIRE point of the request.
Imo, either A) someone is going to agree to give that to him (before the trade, despite not being able to follow through until the Summer) or B) nobody will and he'll have to settle for something less than his ideal contractual situation...two years...one year?
C) If B) is what happens, you can bet he'll decide to play with his friends somewhere in a city with a nightlife. obviously. The way he ends up in Dallas playing with a 24 year-old Slovenian with whom he has little in common is that Dallas agrees to give him his 4-year max.
I've noticed that there are two kinds of proponents of this trade. Both kinds disagree with what I'm saying above (I'm betting they're wrong) but type 1, the good type, says "if that's true, then you just walk away. No deal." Type 2, the people who don't realize how much of a scumbag this player (amazing as he is on the court) is, wouldn't hesitate to lock him into a 4-year contract.
I hope the Mavs' decision makers are in type 1.
(02-05-2023, 11:59 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Type 2, the people who don't realize how much of a scumbag this player (amazing as he is on the court) is
Weird? Unreliable? Sure.
Scumbag? I don't see it.
It's ok to dislike Kyrie and hate the idea of acquiring him without making him something he isn't.
(02-05-2023, 12:06 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Scumbag? I don't see it.
I do. He has, purposefully, found a way not to do his job for like six years in a row and now wants another 4 years of free money.
In my book, that's a
bad person.
(02-05-2023, 11:59 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I bet there are a lot of teams (including Brooklyn, maybe) who would be willing to go that far with him.
The whole reason for the trade request is that he wants his full, 4-year max. He's trying desperately to get his Bird Rights to a team willing to give that to him. That's the ENTIRE point of the request.
Imo, either A) someone is going to agree to give that to him (before the trade, despite not being able to follow through until the Summer) or B) nobody will and he'll have to settle for something less than his ideal contractual situation...two years...one year?
C) If B) is what happens, you can bet he'll decide to play with his friends somewhere in a city with a nightlife. obviously. The way he ends up in Dallas playing with a 24 year-old Slovenian with whom he has little in common is that Dallas agrees to give him his 4-year max.
I've noticed that there are two kinds of proponents of this trade. Both kinds disagree with what I'm saying above (I'm betting they're wrong) but type 1, the good type, says "if that's true, then you just walk away. No deal." Type 2, the people who don't realize how much of a scumbag this player (amazing as he is on the court) is, wouldn't hesitate to lock him into a 4-year contract.
I hope the Mavs' decision makers are in type 1.
His daughter lives in Dallas and her mother is from here. That was apparently the reason why we were on his short list this summer. His idol growing up was Kidd. Nico has a long relationship with the family. These were the exact scenarios both Nico/Kidd were brought in for. To fill the relationship void we had with Mark/Donnie/Rick. In theory, this was the type of gamble we were always looking for
If nobody offers 4 and he won’t accept 2 years, then we would get his best effort rest of season. That would need to be the value placed on what we pay. Can’t pay more than 1 year rental price. And if need be we let him walk and move on easily
BUT, if by chance things went right….this has the chance to open our window immediately. 4/200 would be considered if we won the West this year
(02-05-2023, 11:12 AM)MAVS-SLO Wrote: [ -> ]By accident, i forgot him
mvossman
The problem with a core of Luka/Russell/Wood is that the team will never be good enough defensively to be a contender. It's the same problem with our current (worse) core of Luka/Dinwiddie/Wood. Also, Minnesota is going to want a playmaker back, so the only route to Russell is Spencer.
I agree with you. I still think that we will need to make at least 1 big trade after that to become true contender. I'm just afraid that even getting Siakam or Anuoby wouldn't solve the problem we have on the backcourt after JB left.
We would have similar problems as we have it now, there just no one who can organize a game when Luka is off.
You are talking about a competent backup point guard. I agree that is a need, but its just not that hard to find. The much harder need to fill is two way players. They don't have to be Siakam or Anunoby level, but they will still be more expensive than a backup point.
I like the on court thought of Kyrie...
But has there been any athlete in any sport that has used their leverage against their employer as much as him?
How many times is this now? Or is the covid issue complicating my memory? Im thinking hes used the leverage at least twice and the covid stuff was one instance. Hes been suspended for talking about Jews...only briefly but still suspended.
Hes sat for covid, talking about Jews and at least a couple of times while forcing trades/contracts the way he wants.
I got no problem with someone getting theirs...but he seems fixated on making sure he gets his way at every corner even at the detriment of the teams hes playing for. Some call that smart...and it is...but he seems obsessed with it, to the point he cant help himself, even if his actions cause major distractions. Just seems like some of this stuff could be dont behind closed doors with less distraction...but with Kyrie its not.
Maybe I am speaking about situations I dont know full facts on.
(02-05-2023, 12:18 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]His daughter lives in Dallas and her mother is from here. That was apparently the reason why we were on his short list this summer. His idol growing up was Kidd. Nico has a long relationship with the family. These were the exact scenarios both Nico/Kidd were brought in for. To fill the relationship void we had with Mark/Donnie/Rick. In theory, this was the type of gamble we were always looking for
If nobody offers 4 and he won’t accept 2 years, then we would get his best effort rest of season. That would need to be the value placed on what we pay. Can’t pay more than 1 year rental price. And if need be we let him walk and move on easily
BUT, if by chance things went right….this has the chance to open our window immediately. 4/200 would be considered if we won the West this year
There's some logic here that I agree with. For example, I think whoever trades for him (or Brooklyn, if he doesn't get traded) is going to get his best this season, down the stretch of a contract year.
But, anyone acting like that's going to be some indication of how things will work out in the future, with
this particular character, simply hasn't been paying attention to the wake of wreckage he's left, going all the way back to his Boston years.
This would not work out how you think, my friend.
(02-05-2023, 12:19 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Hes sat for covid, talking about Jews and at least a couple of times while forcing trades/contracts the way he wants.
Kyrie has plenty of faults. But regarding your specific points, he was banned from playing by the city of New York (who simultaneously allowed unvaccinated players from other states to play) and by the Nets who refused to let him play in away games. And to my knowledge, the extent of him "talking about Jews" was sharing a link to a Netflix movie on Twitter. Both have been heavily politicized, for sure. And I'm not claiming he's a saint, either. The dude has issues. But I also think he's not the evil character that some people have been led to believe.
(02-05-2023, 12:18 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]His daughter lives in Dallas and her mother is from here. That was apparently the reason why we were on his short list this summer. His idol growing up was Kidd. Nico has a long relationship with the family. These were the exact scenarios both Nico/Kidd were brought in for. To fill the relationship void we had with Mark/Donnie/Rick. In theory, this was the type of gamble we were always looking for
If nobody offers 4 and he won’t accept 2 years, then we would get his best effort rest of season. That would need to be the value placed on what we pay. Can’t pay more than 1 year rental price. And if need be we let him walk and move on easily
BUT, if by chance things went right….this has the chance to open our window immediately. 4/200 would be considered if we won the West this year
I was very disappointed with the Nico hire because it was a clear sign that Cuban is still calling the shots and given that Nico and Kidd were clearly brought for their relationships meant that plan powder was still in play. I became more disappointed when our first offseason with Nico (and our last shot in free agency before Luka contract) netted Bullock as the big free agent get. I find myself further disappointed to learn that one of these primary contacts is an anti-semitic sociopath.
(02-05-2023, 12:28 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]Kyrie has plenty of faults. But regarding your specific points, he was banned from playing by the city of New York (who simultaneously allowed unvaccinated players from other states to play) and by the Nets who refused to let him play in away games. And to my knowledge, the extent of him "talking about Jews" was sharing a link to a Netflix movie on Twitter. Both have been heavily politicized, for sure. And I'm not claiming he's a saint, either. The dude has issues. But I also think he's not the evil character that some people have been led to believe.
I agree with you and thats fair. Im unvaxxed, myself. Sharing a link is kinda of ridiculous to attack someone over, for sure.
Im not trying to attack Kyrie...I love his game and I dont think he seems like a weirdo in interviews at all....
But how many times has he pulled the leverage bit now? Or asked to be traded?
The thing is, Irving will be on his best behavior for the remainder of this season, so I actually think that if he could be gotten cheaply enough, meaning that most of the good players Dallas has would still be here afterwards, it's possible THIS season might be a whole lot better than what it's headed toward becoming right now. I think that's probably a positive, kind of.
But, there is NO chance that they trade for him and keep him...two years, four years, whatever...and don't regret that at a point VERY soon in the relationship. This is a man who destroys teams. Our team won't be the one where it suddenly works out. People saying there's a chance it will work out really think, deep down, that it probably will. And man, those folks are WRONG.
This is not a guy you should want on your team. Even if you can just chalk his behavior up to "weird" or even "crazy" (it's worse than that, for sure, but I'll go with it for the sake of discussion) it's not going to magically get better here. This is a man who thinks he's above the NBA, teammates, and society in general. There is a 100% chance, not 99%, 100%, that he leaves this franchise worse off than it is now if they trade for him. It's literally WHAT HE DOES.
(02-05-2023, 12:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]There's some logic here that I agree with. For example, I think whoever trades for him (or Brooklyn, if he doesn't get traded) is going to get his best this season, down the stretch of a contract year.
But, anyone acting like that's going to be some indication of how things will work out in the future, with this particular character, simply hasn't been paying attention to the wake of wreckage he's left, going all the way back to his Boston years.
This would not work out how you think, my friend.
You're right there’s great risk of wreckage. There’s also risk of not doing something like this. We will never have the assets of Memphis/New Orleans etc so even if a Siakam comes available we have little chance. If Luka wants him, i don’t think we have a choice
(02-05-2023, 12:43 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]You're right there’s great risk of wreckage.
I guess there's no point in arguing about it all day. People think what they think, and only something happening in real life is going to add potential mind-changing fuel to the fire at this point.
But, the difference between us is that what you call "great risk of wreckage" I call "absolute certainty of wreckage." I just can't willingly wish that on the team I follow.
(02-05-2023, 12:47 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]Why not this?
Because NY is not giving up 3 young players, with Quickley being the best player in the deal, for Bullock, FRP and a bunch of bad contracts. Remove Quickley and you perhaps have a framework that would work
(02-05-2023, 12:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I guess there's no point in arguing about it all day. People think what they think, and only something happening in real life is going to add potential mind-changing fuel to the fire at this point.
But, the difference between us is that what you call "great risk of wreckage" I call "absolute certainty of wreckage." I just can't willingly wish that on the team I follow.
I think our real difference is not on Kyrie but on how desperate the Mavs are. We can’t even get a home grown 2nd round pick to sign with us, we are so sad. We have missed on so many players we’ve wanted at this point. We are not a destination and i don’t think players like Cuban. What would it be like if we never got a real player and Luka demands a trade in his last year? I would end my 25 years of Mavs fandom. This should be a bigger deal to Cuban than anything Kyrie could possibly do