Mentally prepare yourselves for no moves after Mitchell is traded fellas.
(08-30-2022, 02:31 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]That's easy. 1) The Mavs unlocked a new level of success by having three create-their-own-shot guys in Luka, JB, and SD. JB is gone. 2) Wood and THJ both fall a little short of Brunson in terms of creating their own shot. Three creators is the formula - need another one. That's more important than any other Mavs' need right now.
If they score just as much as him, I don’t see why it makes such a difference. Unlocked offense as I go, you go? Count me as skeptical that is a recipe for the ultimate success. I’ll also say, after what we’ve seen and heard from the FO, there is no way they think this way either.
I think the thinking is something like: the more triple threat players you can have on the floor at one time, the better your offense will be. The Clippers or Raptors model is the absolute ideal— a lineup of interchangeable athletes that can shoot, pass, drive AND defend. I think there is rightfully some question as to whether Wood or THJ can handle the ball and/or defend at a high level consistently enough to maximize this roster. I want a guy who can knock Din and Wood and THJ down a notch on the scoring pecking order so they aren’t overexposed. That’s what we lost in Brunson.
Count me out on any deal for Rose or Clarkson or expiring players that require Green or a 1st round pick. As Mvossman said, we need to save assets for the “big swing.” We may only get one chance at it. I’m not sure guys like Rose, Conley, Clarkson, Boji move the needle enough to deal our future for. I think we are like last season— dark horse contenders if everything breaks just right. But probably not better than Boston, Mil, LAC, GSW. Philly, Miami, Denver, Brooklyn, Phoenix could all easily be better than us. Even NO and Minny are dangerous. As long as Luka is around, every season here forth should be treated as championship contention, but not at the expense of the next big trade.
(08-30-2022, 03:58 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: [ -> ]I think the thinking is something like: the more triple threat players you can have on the floor at one time, the better your offense will be. The Clippers or Raptors model is the absolute ideal— a lineup of interchangeable athletes that can shoot, pass, drive AND defend. I think there is rightfully some question as to whether Wood or THJ can handle the ball and/or defend at a high level consistently enough to maximize this roster. I want a guy who can knock Din and Wood and THJ down a notch on the scoring pecking order so they aren’t overexposed. That’s what we lost in Brunson.
To me, that becomes the plan next year when we have much more assets to spend in trade and Bertans is essentially an expiring contract that isn’t a drag on the outgoing value. I don’t see this current roster as punting anymore than last year’s team at the beginning of the season either.
(08-30-2022, 02:03 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I really don’t understand why we need more scoring mostly guys. Luka is a 28-30 ppg scorer. THJ, SD and Wood are all 16-18 ppg scorers.
The only point of attack defender we have is Bullock. We should be looking at players like Derrick White who had a bad offensive showing in the playoffs but still brought defense. A guy who will find himself on the outs with Bos acquiring Brogdon.
That, or if we go the scoring only route (throwing defense out the window), Chi has been shopping Coby White for years now. He wouldn’t cost a FRP and you don’t have to deal with Ainge.
I would love Derrick White. He would be a great fit. High level perimeter defender who can be the third playmaker while also being able to score some. Less interested in the other White.
(08-30-2022, 04:07 PM)MarkAguirreWrathofGod Wrote: [ -> ]As Mvossman said, we need to save assets for the “big swing.” We may only get one chance at it.
I hate to even suggest it, but I think they've already
had their one chance at this and chose Porzingis wrongly. Luka is now on his rookie max extension, and there's simply no path to quickly accumulate the type of young potential stars that would interest the rare team who's willing to unload a current star. Plus, by the time the team has enough picks to offer (5 for Mitchell!!!) it will be too late, I think.
I think the path from here is so uphill it's ridiculous. They really needed to get that 2nd guy before Luka's second contract. When they didn't, it got a lot harder. Losing Brunson for nothing made it more so.
It's about as depressing as a situation that involves Luka Doncic can be. I almost wish they'd trade him to a better team so we could see how great he can actually become. Almost.
(08-30-2022, 04:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I hate to even suggest it, but I think they've already had their one chance at this and chose Porzingis wrongly. Luka is now on his rookie max extension, and there's simply no path to quickly accumulate the type of young potential stars that would interest the rare team who's willing to unload a current star. Plus, by the time the team has enough picks to offer (5 for Mitchell!!!) it will be too late, I think.
I think the path from here is so uphill it's ridiculous. They really needed to get that 2nd guy before Luka's second contract. When they didn't, it got a lot harder. Losing Brunson for nothing made it more so.
It's about as depressing as a situation that involves Luka Doncic can be. I almost wish they'd trade him to a better team so we could see how great he can actually become. Almost.
This is way too pessimistic. We have seem a couple of guys in the last couple of yours that went for picks and no young players (Jrue and Murray). Somebody like Siakam, who is probably worth right around the max and already making it probably won't cost as much as those guys. Hell, some folks think Wiggins might be good enough to be that guy, and he should be even cheaper. That would be the kind of player we are targeting, and I think there is a reasonable possibility we find one in the next year or two.
I agree that losing Brunson for nothing made it harder, and this will definitely be our last chance. Need to get it right this time.
(08-30-2022, 04:16 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I would love Derrick White. He would be a great fit. High level perimeter defender who can be the third playmaker while also being able to score some. Less interested in the other White.
For sure I don’t want Coby, I was just saying if the plan is to go after yet another mostly offense player, Coby is the option where you don’t have to deal with Ainge and is not worth a FRP seeing as they’ve been shopping him fir years and he has 1 year left on contract.
I’ve been vocal about wanting Derrick for a few years. The less injured poor man’s Malcolm Brogdon (when he’s healthy) who is a poor man’s Jrue.
(08-30-2022, 04:19 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I hate to even suggest it, but I think they've already had their one chance at this and chose Porzingis wrongly. Luka is now on his rookie max extension, and there's simply no path to quickly accumulate the type of young potential stars that would interest the rare team who's willing to unload a current star. Plus, by the time the team has enough picks to offer (5 for Mitchell!!!) it will be too late, I think.
I think the path from here is so uphill it's ridiculous. They really needed to get that 2nd guy before Luka's second contract. When they didn't, it got a lot harder. Losing Brunson for nothing made it more so.
It's about as depressing as a situation that involves Luka Doncic can be. I almost wish they'd trade him to a better team so we could see how great he can actually become. Almost.
KL, that's the old MBT. They are the ones that shortchange the tank when they traded for KP. We have a new MBT now and still adding to its talent. Once they figure out how to work Cuban, we will be alright.
But do wish we could lose Cuban for nothing.
(08-30-2022, 04:56 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]This is way too pessimistic. We have seem a couple of guys in the last couple of yours that went for picks and no young players (Jrue and Murray). Somebody like Siakam, who is probably worth right around the max and already making it probably won't cost as much as those guys. Hell, some folks think Wiggins might be good enough to be that guy, and he should be even cheaper. That would be the kind of player we are targeting, and I think there is a reasonable possibility we find one in the next year or two.
I agree that losing Brunson for nothing made it harder, and this will definitely be our last chance. Need to get it right this time.
I’m really hoping SGA gets sick of the losing in OKC and we can put together a sneaky good package for him.
I'd be all over Clarkson for a 1. He can get his own and is used to being a 6th man.
(08-30-2022, 05:12 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'd be all over Clarkson for a 1. He can get his own and is used to being a 6th man.
I think I'm there, too. They need to be good now. Coming off of a WCF year isn't nothing, and a bad season is going to feel doubly bad after that, imo.
I don’t think Conley has much value. Bad contract and looked bad in the playoffs. I don’t think there’s a massive difference in swapping Bertans for Conley. Especially for a rebuilding team with no other contracts on its books Bertans option year. Utah wants unprotected picks and young players. NY wants to bring home Mitchell and keep Barrett. LA wants to be rid of Westbrook and contend while having summer 23 flexibility for Kyrie. Mavs want to upgrade while keeping all future picks for a big trade
NYK: Mitchell
DAL: Conley and Gay
LAL: Rose, Bojan, Powell, Reddish
UTA: Westbrook, Bertans, Green, Quickley, Grimes, Toppin
5 unprotected FRP’s. 2 from LA, 2 from NY, and DAL 23 protections lifted
Plus 2 protected FRP’s from NYK
(08-30-2022, 06:39 PM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think Conley has much value. Bad contract and looked bad in the playoffs. I don’t think there’s a massive difference in swapping Bertans for Conley. Especially for a rebuilding team with no other contracts on its books Bertans option year. Utah wants unprotected picks and young players. NY wants to bring home Mitchell and keep Barrett. LA wants to be rid of Westbrook and contend while having summer 23 flexibility for Kyrie. Mavs want to upgrade while keeping all future picks for a big trade
NYK: Mitchell
DAL: Conley and Gay
LAL: Rose, Bojan, Powell, Reddish
UTA: Westbrook, Bertans, Green, Quickley, Grimes, Toppin
5 unprotected FRP’s. 2 from LA, 2 from NY, and DAL 23 protections lifted
Plus 2 protected FRP’s from NYK
I would be up for that.
(08-30-2022, 07:48 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.si.com/nba/knicks/news/new-y...-utah-jazz
While it is true that Barrett can still be included in trades, it is more difficult. He's now poison pill, so there is a very large spread between how he counts as outgoing vs. how he counts as incoming.
I've never thought Utah wanted Barrett, so the extension is immaterial in terms of its impact on any Mitchell to NY deal. The possibilities for NY's outgoing is down to kids, picks and either Fournier or Rose. Utah doesn't want Fournier's LT money and NY, given the spending spree they are on, probably doesn't want Fournier either. The fix is Russ to Utah and Fournier plus Utah vets to LA. The names aren't hard to figure out. It is the picks and protections between 3 teams that are probably quite challenging.
Few here were interested in trading for Russ. How does the board feel about Vet Min Russ?
The Mavs certainly have the personnel to spread the floor and let Westbrook cook downhill. He's a game changer for sure. I love the idea of bringing him off the bench in a Stackhouse type role. Bucket getter and attack dog offensively who can play defense when it counts. Playoff warrior. He'll have a chip on his shoulder and something to prove.
It all comes down to Westbrook. Does he want to rebuild his reputation on a contender or does he want to be the alpha dog on a team that will struggle to make the play-in?
(08-31-2022, 07:23 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]While it is true that Barrett can still be included in trades, it is more difficult. He's now poison pill, so there is a very large spread between how he counts as outgoing vs. how he counts as incoming.
I've never thought Utah wanted Barrett, so the extension is immaterial in terms of its impact on any Mitchell to NY deal. The possibilities for NY's outgoing is down to kids, picks and either Fournier or Rose. Utah doesn't want Fournier's LT money and NY, given the spending spree they are on, probably doesn't want Fournier either. The fix is Russ to Utah and Fournier plus Utah vets to LA. The names aren't hard to figure out. It is the picks and protections between 3 teams that are probably quite challenging.
Few here were interested in trading for Russ. How does the board feel about Vet Min Russ?
I would agree that Utah probably wasn't hot for Barrett. Although could you make the case that he may be more attractive now to Utah now that he is signed for 4 additional years? I wonder if they would have an interest in a resigned Barrett plus some picks. They could either keep Barrett as a core building piece or eventually move from him as well. There just doesn't appear to be many suitors for Mitchell who have good enough assets. Orlando is a favorite of mine, but I am not sure they have any interest. Don't see Washington or Charlotte as realistic options. Although unprotected draft picks from either of those teams are attractive. The Knicks can throw a lot out there, but I am not sure how good the pieces really are. The protected first round picks are pretty so-so. Ainge appears to be more interested in the Knicks unprotected picks. Are any of the young Knicks prospects eventual core pieces for a good team? Or do they max out as good players, but not difference makers?
I mentioned the other day, how I have spent way to much time looking at players for that last spot on our roster. I should have mentioned, a released Westbrook was also considered. Bad times. My confidence in Kidd is really high. I loved how he gave players freedom on the court. So I would be interested in giving him a talented player to see if we could let him do the things he is good at doing. The issue is I am not sure Russ sees himself in that type of support role.
(08-31-2022, 08:36 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I would agree that Utah probably wasn't hot for Barrett. Although could you make the case that he may be more attractive now to Utah now that he is signed for 4 additional years? I wonder if they would have an interest in a resigned Barrett plus some picks. They could either keep Barrett as a core building piece or eventually move from him as well. There just doesn't appear to be many suitors for Mitchell who have good enough assets. Orlando is a favorite of mine, but I am not sure they have any interest. Don't see Washington or Charlotte as realistic options. Although unprotected draft picks from either of those teams are attractive. The Knicks can throw a lot out there, but I am not sure how good the pieces really are. The protected first round picks are pretty so-so. Ainge appears to be more interested in the Knicks unprotected picks. Are any of the young Knicks prospects eventual core pieces for a good team? Or do they max out as good players, but not difference makers?
I mentioned the other day, how I have spent way to much time looking at players for that last spot on our roster. I should have mentioned, a released Westbrook was also considered. Bad times. My confidence in Kidd is really high. I loved how he gave players freedom on the court. So I would be interested in giving him a talented player to see if we could let him do the things he is good at doing. The issue is I am not sure Russ sees himself in that type of support role.
Barrett is young and talented, but in 3 years in the NBA he has been wildly inefficient with a TS% barely over 50%. There is obviously reason to expect him to improve, but he has a long way to go to be worth 30 mil a year. Its hard to see that contract making him appealing in a trade.
I also have had visions of Russ actually contributing by coming off the bench and dominating second units, but I think its very unlikely he is willing to do it, and I am with KL regarding chemistry concerns with Brunson and probably Powell leaving and the primary add being Wood. I don't think we want to push it even farther with guys like Russ and Schroder.