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JB is a Mike Conley, Damon Stoudamire, Jameer Nelson starter kit.  The Chris Paul comparison are grossly overstated.

(07-15-2022, 12:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]he's good enough to be the second best player on a championship team

I disagree with this pretty strongly. I think he is good enough to be the THIRD best player, which was a lot better than I thought he was a year ago. It will be interesting to see his career play out.

(07-15-2022, 05:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I disagree with this pretty strongly. I think he is good enough to be the THIRD best player, which was a lot better than I thought he was a year ago. It will be interesting to see his career play out.

I suppose it’s all just a matter of how great the first player is, in the end. I definitely don’t think any such qualified player is currently in New York, so it’s going to be a loooong term study.

(07-15-2022, 05:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I suppose it’s all just a matter of how great the first player is, in the end.

I think Luka would have to reach a REALLY atmospheric level to win a championship with JB as the 2nd best player. I don't think JB is anywhere near Pippen, Kyrie, AD, Kidd, Klay, etc.

(07-15-2022, 05:45 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think Luka would have to reach a REALLY atmospheric level to win a championship with JB as the 2nd best player. I don't think JB is anywhere near Pippen, Kyrie, AD, Kidd, Klay, etc.

The problem in my mind is Luka and JB are too similar in strengths and deficiencies.

(07-15-2022, 05:46 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The problem in my mind is Luka and JB are too similar in strengths and deficiencies.

Totally agree with this as well. I personally think Luka has more of a chance to win a championship with someone like CW as his 2nd than with JB.

(07-15-2022, 05:48 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Totally agree with this as well. I personally think Luka has more of a chance to win a championship with someone like CW as his 2nd than with JB.

That's what made Jordan and Pippen so dominate as they were two way players who were devastating defenders.  Toss Harper and Rodman in the mix and you could skate by with place holder centers like Longley and Wennington.  

I'm not sure the Mavs have the FO talent to build a team around Luka.  I mentioned threading that needle earlier.  You need guys around him that can help hide his liabilities on defense.  As great as JB is, he doesn't do that but rather compounds the problem.  It why in concept that I don't hate that he is gone, but I have little faith that they can replace him and they fact that they got a bag of air when he left is painful.

We really need our own version of Klay Thompson or Kris Middleton but then again, who doesn't?

There was a report (Not sure if verified) of Utah doing a sign and trade for Sexton.    The report was Conley going to Cleveland.   Why is Conley included?  Wouldn't Bogdan work well in Cleveland.  They need wings who can shoot.   I think he would be a real nice fit there.

(07-15-2022, 05:57 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]That's what made Jordan and Pippen so dominate as they were two way players who were devastating defenders.  Toss Harper and Rodman in the mix and you could skate by with place holder centers like Longley and Wennington.  

I'm not sure the Mavs have the FO talent to build a team around Luka.  I mentioned threading that needle earlier.  You need guys around him that can help hide his liabilities on defense.  As great as JB is, he doesn't do that but rather compounds the problem.  It why in concept that I don't hate that he is gone, but I have little faith that they can replace him and they fact that they got a bag of air when he left is painful.

We really need our own version of Klay Thompson or Kris Middleton but then again, who doesn't?

I think that Luka showed enough over the course of the season last year that he is indeed physically capable of playing defense. Unfortunately, especially in the playoffs, he slacked again. It's mental. He has to decide he wants to do it. Part of that is having other guys who can do the heavy lifting on O. While losing JB is addition by subtraction personnel-wise due to his own defensive warts, I think that's more than evened out right now by the additional wear-and-tear Luka is going to accrue by being one two instead of three principal ball handlers. That's why it's a major banghead smiley moment if the Mavs don't get Conley, Kemba, Schroeder, or someone else to fill those JB minutes.

(07-15-2022, 07:10 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I think that Luka showed enough over the course of the season last year that he is indeed physically capable of playing defense. Unfortunately, especially in the playoffs, he slacked again. It's mental. He has to decide he wants to do it. Part of that is having other guys who can do the heavy lifting on O. While losing JB is addition by subtraction personnel-wise due to his own defensive warts, I think that's more than evened out right now by the additional wear-and-tear Luka is going to accrue by being one two instead of three principal ball handlers. That's why it's a major banghead smiley moment if the Mavs don't get Conley, Kemba, Schroeder, or someone else to fill those JB minutes.

The amount of ball handling he does takes a toll.  The amount of rebounding he does takes a toll.  Playing defense takes a toll.  I think we've addressed the rebounding to an extent and Luka would do himself a world of good by getting and staying in better shape.  And if we are honest, in our wildest dreams, Luka being a serviceable defender who uses his bball IQ to read passing lanes is about as good as we can hope for.  He's never going to be LeBron as a two way player.

(07-15-2022, 12:02 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He's not going to be Steve Nash or Chris Paul...but he's good enough to be the second best player on a championship team, and they had him here. They drafted him and developed him. He was a significant part of the culture and direction of the team.

He's good enough to be a 3rd-4th player on a championship team. He got swallowed up pretty good during that GS series. He won't lose you a game. But, I think he wins you very few games on his own. He's a very smart heady player with some skill and a very good work ethic. I have no doubt he'll continue to improve. But, I don't see him being an all-star unless it's a fluke year. Fan Fave? Absolutely.

The part where the Mavs messed up is either not trading him at the TDL or not structuring his contract so that he would be restricted this year. They missed a huge opportunity to have a home drafted/grown player that they could get assets for. That's my only regret. He wasn't a fit with Luka but he definitely would have been useful in a trade. I would have locked him in sooner and gotten a bounty of picks and/or players from NY for him. But, then again I was pushing for that last year to trade him for a wing.

(07-15-2022, 10:11 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

Wow. Putting the knife right in his back, all the while healing praise on him for misdirection. Masterful.

(07-15-2022, 10:35 PM)audiosway Wrote: [ -> ]or not structuring his contract so that he would be restricted this year.

Had he been restricted, you’re saying the Mavs would’ve matched? Doesn’t seem likely.