MavsBoard

(09-16-2022, 09:02 PM)DallasMaverick Wrote: [ -> ]Sure looks like they are positioned to jettison Westbrick...

That is my thought too.   I like the signing of Schroeder there for both parties.  Currently, it is an odd fit.  But if they can move Westbrook for a piece or two, than they look interesting to me.   Although, in the end it all depends on Lebron staying at a high level of play and being healthy and Davis being healthy.  But if they could switch out Westbrook and picks for Turner & Buddy or maybe the Utah package (minus Conley now), than I could see a roadmap to a top four finish in the west.   I wouldn't bet on it, but it would be a much better roster than last year...with Lebron being a year older.

For Schroeder, at least LA can offer cap room next year.  So in theory, he could resign in LAL.  I am sure he wants to get out of the 5 million and under contract.   LAL gives him a good shot at that...although if they keep Westbrook things get a little more muddier.

Luka already banged up. DFS + Kleber locked in. Cap rising to 134. Lack of a young star and assets.

Westbrook for Dinwiddie + THJ + Bertans + 1st round pick is still our best option to a quick 12 months tank + real contender rebuild.

1. You get a top 10 pick in the best draft in ages.
2. You get rid of all the dead wood from the previous administration in 12 months (Powell, Dinwiddie, Bertans, THJ).
3. You get 54M in capspace to shape the team to your liking in the free agent market.
4. You gain an additional 1st round pick to use in a trade.
5. You can develop your own pick Hardy.

That´s honestly what a NEW GM would/should do to quickly mold a team to his own liking and take full ownership of failure and success. Or go and hide behind the crap of the previous administration by carrying their poopbucket around.

(09-17-2022, 12:55 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Luka already banged up. DFS + Kleber locked in. Cap rising to 134. Lack of a young star and assets.

Westbrook for Dinwiddie + THJ + Bertans + 1st round pick is still our best option to a quick 12 months tank + real contender rebuild.

1. You get a top 10 pick in the best draft in ages.
2. You get rid of all the dead wood from the previous administration in 12 months (Powell, Dinwiddie, Bertans, THJ).
3. You get 54M in capspace to shape the team to your liking in the free agent market.
4. You gain an additional 1st round pick to use in a trade.
5. You can develop your own pick Hardy.

That´s honestly what a NEW GM would/should do to quickly mold a team to his own liking and take full ownership of failure and success. Or go and hide behind the crap of the previous administration by carrying their poopbucket around.

First, you lost me at “lack of a young star”.


Other than that, you don’t include Dinwiddie in the trade with the Lakers cause you can trade or combine he and Bullock for more expirings and picks. Powell goes with THJ and Bertans. If we’re going this route, that’s how we do it.

I'm not a fan of a RW-to-Dallas trade because it doesn't help Luka.
1 You are lessening current talent base around him, not adding to it. Backwards.
2 Probably 2027 is when you see a pick - there is no LA pick available anytime soon. Who knows if that's a good draft year or a good draft pick.
3 Since it takes most draftees 2-3-4 years to be very productive (if they ever do), it's almost a decade from now before such a trade might help Luka. Too late.
4 At some point (maybe at TDL or next summer), you might get some help via trading THJ or Bertans, or even via Powell's expiring, in the right scenario. But if you swap those pieces for RW's carcass, RW offers no potential at all, either now or later, to swap him for someone useful. He's negative value for any trade scenario.
5 You don't get cap room next summer from such a trade. The Mavs merely reduce their over-the-capness and end up at around the cap. That helps Cuban, but not Luka.
6 Moving Dinwiddie (in this proposal) is a team killer -- Mavs are already shorthanded at playmaker/ballhandler/creator, and this goes from bad to way worse. They need 1 more, not 1 less. (And no, RW is not the answer to that. Ugh.)
7 Would I even want RW at the minimum, if bought out? I'm leery of the fit and the expectations that he would have, even with Mavs need. Would he be expecting to be the primary ball-handler, taking it out of Luka's hands, and to get all the shots he wants to get to his numbers? I'm scared of that. But with that $47M contract, that's exactly how he thinks for now -- from things he says, as the top-paid guy, he sees Main Guy (or on that tier) as his own worth and place in the pecking order, and that's a total non-starter..

I am against any tank or punt the season direction.  I leave my tanking desires to this years Cowboys though.

We have been to conference finals with that team and you want to tank with Luca on board? Are you kidding? Best way to lose him as fast as possible.

Tanking in general sucks. Lose on purpose is a fuckin stupid concept in sports. Only thinkable in the US

(09-17-2022, 03:54 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not a fan of a RW-to-Dallas trade because it doesn't help Luka.

After talking it out with you and Dan, I’m with you on this. The plan he described was a tanking strategy, so most of the below is null and void.

Tanking would mean we go for not conveying the 23 this year and put our hands in what is supposed to be a very deep talent pool. So as far as helping Luka, it for sure wouldn’t this coming year, but I can’t help but think the long term vision COULD be much better than churning like we have for years.

Basically I’m all for whatever makes this team a dynasty (Luka is an amazing start to that). It’s much easier to see that scenario by tearing it all down than what we’re doing, but what we’re doing isn’t out of that realm of possibility either.

I’m also aware that it is in no way a thought in anyone’s mind that is in the FO. So this is talking out strategy on a weeks long slow day. What else is there to talk about?

1 You are lessening current talent base around him, not adding to it. Backwards.

That’s the point of tanking and clearing out all long term salary attached to players that aren’t necessarily in the future plans. As I see it, it is a 1 year plan, not a “process” like they did in Philly.

2 Probably 2027 is when you see a pick - there is no LA pick available anytime soon. Who knows if that's a good draft year or a good draft pick.

The point in getting draft picks in this scenario is not to keep them. Assemble as many picks as you can and use them within a couple years to build the dynasty.

3 Since it takes most draftees 2-3-4 years to be very productive (if they ever do), it's almost a decade from now before such a trade might help Luka. Too late.

See above.

4 At some point (maybe at TDL or next summer), you might get some help via trading THJ or Bertans, or even via Powell's expiring, in the right scenario. But if you swap those pieces for RW's carcass, RW offers no potential at all, either now or later, to swap him for someone useful. He's negative value for any trade scenario.

Tank commander!

5 You don't get cap room next summer from such a trade. The Mavs merely reduce their over-the-capness and end up at around the cap. That helps Cuban, but not Luka.

The trade he proposed swaps SD out for Powell. That absolutely changes the discussion from not having room under the cap to having it. With that trade alone our total salary is at $101M with a $134M cap. Trade Bullock for a first and that makes it $91M. Now there is money and extra picks to get creative with using Maxi and DFS (Maxi or DFS plus a first or 2 for OG Anunoby then the other with a first or 2 for Dillon Brooks as 2 examples of many possibilities). We would have to start out with a low end bench, but as time goes by, we strengthen that with smart moves.

6 Moving Dinwiddie (in this proposal) is a team killer -- Mavs are already shorthanded at playmaker/ballhandler/creator, and this goes from bad to way worse. They need 1 more, not 1 less. (And no, RW is not the answer to that. Ugh.)

Once again, tank. Using Frank as a pg helps this cause!

7 Would I even want RW at the minimum, if bought out? I'm leery of the fit and the expectations that he would have, even with Mavs need. Would he be expecting to be the primary ball-handler, taking it out of Luka's hands, and to get all the shots he wants to get to his numbers? I'm scared of that. But with that $47M contract, that's exactly how he thinks for now -- from things he says, as the top-paid guy, he sees Main Guy (or on that tier) as his own worth and place in the pecking order, and that's a total non-starter..

I would buy out RW, he is a team chemistry killer and we want our guys to at least like eachother. Tank!

Again, I wouldn’t do it, but I can see the value in the strategy. Not ghat the team would do it either, but the guy can dream of a better world can’t he?

I would rather be patient and have our full bag of magic beans by the draft next year.  Luka is not going anywhere imo.   Just think how much fun it will be to make up fake trades with all our expirings, picks and swaps.  Rehab Tim and maybe even Bertans into tradeable pieces.  See if Josh takes a step forward.  Is Dorsey a keeper?  Lots of good things can happen.  Plus it is probably what the Mavs will do anyway.

Is that too much sunshine pumping?

---

https://twitter.com/miss77ela/status/1570906862803124230?s=20&t=cf82GCCgRe7W5-qjGqqYWw

(09-17-2022, 01:53 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]I would rather be patient and have our full bag of magic beans by the draft next year.  Luka is not going anywhere imo.   Just think how much fun it will be to make up fake trades with all our expirings, picks and swaps.  Rehab Tim and maybe even Bertans into tradeable pieces.  See if Josh takes a step forward.  Is Dorsey a keeper?  Lots of good things can happen.  Plus it is probably what the Mavs will do anyway.

Is that too much sunshine pumping?

---

https://twitter.com/miss77ela/status/1570906862803124230?s=20&t=cf82GCCgRe7W5-qjGqqYWw

This is pretty much exactly where I have landed myself. Add to the list of what to watch for, is Wood a keeper or even more than that? If it’s sunshine pumping make this the first in many years for me!


That, however, doesn’t make me stop thinking about other possibilities in an alternate universe!

I think sometimes we discount the razor-thin difference between a championship team and merely a contender.

One injury to an important player can nuke title hopes. Khris Middleton, for example?

And conversely, even teams with substantial flaws can win it all, if things fall right.  Lakers in 2020:

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/teams/...ayoff/2020.

I'm not sure the Mavericks are THAT far away from getting a championship, if things fall right.  Seems like a much bigger gamble to try to tear down and rebuild, rather than tweaking a few details on the existing roster.

The best part of Schroder signing with the Lakers is the Mavs are one step closer to Tyreke Evans.

(09-17-2022, 12:55 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Luka already banged up. DFS + Kleber locked in. Cap rising to 134. Lack of a young star and assets.

Westbrook for Dinwiddie + THJ + Bertans + 1st round pick is still our best option to a quick 12 months tank + real contender rebuild.

1. You get a top 10 pick in the best draft in ages.
2. You get rid of all the dead wood from the previous administration in 12 months (Powell, Dinwiddie, Bertans, THJ).
3. You get 54M in capspace to shape the team to your liking in the free agent market.
4. You gain an additional 1st round pick to use in a trade.
5. You can develop your own pick Hardy.

That´s honestly what a NEW GM would/should do to quickly mold a team to his own liking and take full ownership of failure and success. Or go and hide behind the crap of the previous administration by carrying their poopbucket around.

Alright, it's yet another slow day so I'm gonna go down this will-never-happen rabbit hole with you. We'll start with your trade, but make the money work.

LA gets: SD/THJ/Bertans
Dal gets: RW/Kendrick Nunn/27 first unprotected/29 first top 10 protected

The inclusion of SD gets us the extra pick from the Lakers. Nunn is expiring salary that brings the money much closer.

Now that we've gotten the large part handled, we're looking to sell off Wood. I'm looking for picks and expiring contracts. I'd like to involve NYK to get our 23 back.

At the end of the year, I would like to have no more than a roster of Luka, DFS, Maxi, Bullock, McGee (mostly cause I think he'd be a negative in trade due to the contract length), Green and Hardy. That's $87M in committed 23-24 salary giving us $47M in cap space. We would also be going into the 23 offseason with 3 FRPs (well technically 2, but I'm agreeing to a trade in the 23 draft and executing it in that offseason) to add to the 4 we already have. On top of that, we tanked the season (Luka is given large rest periods with every ache and pain) and get a top 10 pick in the 23 draft which we can use for ourselves, or make a trade deal that doesn't get executed til after the moratorium. Lots of PT for Hardy and Green!!

With the 7 firsts and $47M, we need:
2 two-way starters (I'm targetting 2 of OG Anunoby/Dillon Brooks/Shai Gilgeous-Alexander)
2 eight man playoff rotation players (added to starters and Bullock)
1 regular season rotation level player (Hardy and 1 more make 10)
5 deep bench players (all vet min)

For the playoff rotation I want a backup G and a big wing to add to Bullock.

Trade 1:
Tor gets: Maxi, Green (he had a promising season!) and 2 firsts (wasn't THAT promising)
Dal gets: OG Anunoby

Ok, this changes the numbers above, but I think it is worth it. Brings our capspace down to $43M. Draft capital 5 FRPs.

Trade 2 (agreed to during the draft and executed after the moratorium):
OKC gets:: Mavs top 10 pick in 23 and 3 more firsts
Dal gets: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

Brings capspace down to $9.5M. Draft Capital 1 FRP.

Our lineup at this point looks like:
Luka/SGA/OG/DFS/McGee
Hardy/?/RB/?/?
?/?/?/?/?

At this point, the only real play is to use Bullock, Hardy, the left over 1st and any seconds we have along with the $9.5M remaining capspace to get at least the 3 playoff rotation worthy players (one of them being a big wing that can fill in the rim protector role). Then fill in the rest with vet min ring chasers.

Not sure we can't get close to that type roster by staying the course and not forcing a tank onto Luka (I don't think doing it would make Luka ask out or leave after his contract is up though), which is why I've stopped defending RW trades (I was never actually FOR the trade, just saw potential). It does give Nico and Kidd a clean slate to make the team theirs, free from the previous regime, and I do think there is value in that.

With $47M and 7 FRPs, there are plenty other ways to go about this rebuild too, like not going after SGA type money that would give us a lot more flexibility on the final roster.

I believe if the Lakers put any protections on their picks it muddies things up a little.   From what I understand, you can't trade picks 7 years in the future.  So, if one of the picks is pushed the '29 pick would move to a second round pick or something like that.  Not saying it impacts the fantasy trade talk, but just an FYI.

(09-18-2022, 07:19 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I believe if the Lakers put any protections on their picks it muddies things up a little.   From what I understand, you can't trade picks 7 years in the future.  So, if one of the picks is pushed the '29 pick would move to a second round pick or something like that.  Not saying it impacts the fantasy trade talk, but just an FYI.

That’s why I didn’t protect the 27 and then protected the 29. My understanding of the 2 picks the Lakers have available are the 27 and 29 (citing Lakers fans telling me on other websites). The Pelicans have the choice of the Lakers 24 or 25 FRP it’s not really so much a protection as it is a guarantee that either the 24 or 25 FRP will be conveyed to the Pelicans. That’s why the 27 is the first pick that can be traded.

(09-19-2022, 08:47 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...5341398026

Glad the Mavs traded for Wood before FRP inflation hit the NBA.

(09-19-2022, 08:47 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...5341398026

Their video team must have just made a highlight reel featuring Mavs games.  Kareem Abdul Poeltl.

(09-18-2022, 05:40 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Alright, it's yet another slow day so I'm gonna go down this will-never-happen rabbit hole with you. We'll start with your trade, but make the money work.

LA gets: SD/THJ/Bertans
Dal gets: RW/Kendrick Nunn/27 first unprotected/29 first top 10 protected

The inclusion of SD gets us the extra pick from the Lakers. Nunn is expiring salary that brings the money much closer.

Now that we've gotten the large part handled, we're looking to sell off Wood. I'm looking for picks and expiring contracts. I'd like to involve NYK to get our 23 back.

At the end of the year, I would like to have no more than a roster of Luka, DFS, Maxi, Bullock, McGee (mostly cause I think he'd be a negative in trade due to the contract length), Green and Hardy. That's $87M in committed 23-24 salary giving us $47M in cap space. We would also be going into the 23 offseason with 3 FRPs (well technically 2, but I'm agreeing to a trade in the 23 draft and executing it in that offseason) to add to the 4 we already have. On top of that, we tanked the season (Luka is given large rest periods with every ache and pain) and get a top 10 pick in the 23 draft which we can use for ourselves, or make a trade deal that doesn't get executed til after the moratorium. Lots of PT for Hardy and Green!!

With the 7 firsts and $47M, we need:
2 two-way starters (I'm targetting 2 of OG Anunoby/Dillon Brooks/Shai Gilgeous-Alexander)
2 eight man playoff rotation players (added to starters and Bullock)
1 regular season rotation level player (Hardy and 1 more make 10)
5 deep bench players (all vet min)

For the playoff rotation I want a backup G and a big wing to add to Bullock.

Trade 1:
Tor gets: Maxi, Green (he had a promising season!) and 2 firsts (wasn't THAT promising)
Dal gets: OG Anunoby

Ok, this changes the numbers above, but I think it is worth it. Brings our capspace down to $43M. Draft capital 5 FRPs.

Trade 2 (agreed to during the draft and executed after the moratorium):
OKC gets:: Mavs top 10 pick in 23 and 3 more firsts
Dal gets: Shai Gilgeous-Alexander

Brings capspace down to $9.5M. Draft Capital 1 FRP.

Our lineup at this point looks like:
Luka/SGA/OG/DFS/McGee
Hardy/?/RB/?/?
?/?/?/?/?

At this point, the only real play is to use Bullock, Hardy, the left over 1st and any seconds we have along with the $9.5M remaining capspace to get at least the 3 playoff rotation worthy players (one of them being a big wing that can fill in the rim protector role). Then fill in the rest with vet min ring chasers.

Not sure we can't get close to that type roster by staying the course and not forcing a tank onto Luka (I don't think doing it would make Luka ask out or leave after his contract is up though), which is why I've stopped defending RW trades (I was never actually FOR the trade, just saw potential). It does give Nico and Kidd a clean slate to make the team theirs, free from the previous regime, and I do think there is value in that.

With $47M and 7 FRPs, there are plenty other ways to go about this rebuild too, like not going after SGA type money that would give us a lot more flexibility on the final roster.

The trade SD/THJ/Bertans for RW straight up works according to the trade machine, but what´s really important is the pick return. I assume it would be just one unprotected 1st round pick.

The Finnish-THJ rule. Young players are trade assets. I´d try to acquire Coby White + Mo Bamba during the season. Neither is wanted by his team long-term, and should be fairly cheap. Both are expiring next summer (non-guaranteed + RFA). You can test both extensively next year.   

There is so much further flexibility in this set-up. You can literally do anything you want. Max offers to Wiggins. Extensions to Bamba, White and/or Wood. Trade Bullock/Kleber for Collins. Trade our 2023 pick, the Lakers pick, a future 1st for SGA. I think Presti would take it. This draft is so deep the pick value is immediately elevated.

Doncic/White
SGA/Hardy
DFS/Green
Collins/X
Bamba/Wood

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1571945428719144960?s=20&t=3V74PqvjaX2NIXtxyoKN1g

 Will not give up a FRP but would consider for player(s).