(01-16-2023, 09:06 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]In the same piece he backs up Jake Fischer's reporting that Miami is interested in D. Russell for Lowry swap. Both that and the Cleveland/Beasley rumor wipe out the two reported destinations for Hardaway in recent weeks.
Love how some outlets have Atlanta getting picks for Collins and some have them giving picks for Collins. You are correct that Utah would need to add salary to do Beasley for Collins, but Stein doesn't name a name. It can be someone making as little as Agbaji up to someone making as much as Rudy Gay. If they make as much as THT, it throws Atlanta into the Luxury Tax.
If Utah has Collins, do they keep Markannen? Has LM become a someone who would command two draft choices if you trade for him.
I have trouble seeing Minny interest in Lowry. That is a big ask for them. If they think Russell is gone after this year or they have no interest in re-signing him, than the extra year of Lowry's contract could make sense. It just seems off though for Minny. Might as well just keep Russell and then do a sign and trade this offseason to his preferred location.
For me, what is really disappointing is some of the decisions we have made in FA. It seems like we either have buyers remorse or would love to have someone take these guys off our hands. Part of a good GM is making sound decisions and get guys on good contracts. We have seen McGee, Hardaway, Bullock, Sterling Brown, Picked up option of WCS. I believe that is it. But all those guys we would either love to move or get off their contract but they all have very limited options, I think.
(01-16-2023, 09:06 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]In the same piece he backs up Jake Fischer's reporting that Miami is interested in D. Russell for Lowry swap. Both that and the Cleveland/Beasley rumor wipe out the two reported destinations for Hardaway in recent weeks.
I wonder what this means for potential Hardaway trades. His name is definitely out there. But i think it shows that he would be a fall back for teams, and we're probably looking at a very minimal return.
(01-16-2023, 10:07 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I have trouble seeing Minny interest in Lowry. That is a big ask for them. If they think Russell is gone after this year or they have no interest in re-signing him, than the extra year of Lowry's contract could make sense. It just seems off though for Minny. Might as well just keep Russell and then do a sign and trade this offseason to his preferred location.
For me, what is really disappointing is some of the decisions we have made in FA. It seems like we either have buyers remorse or would love to have someone take these guys off our hands. Part of a good GM is making sound decisions and get guys on good contracts. We have seen McGee, Hardaway, Bullock, Sterling Brown, Picked up option of WCS. I believe that is it. But all those guys we would either love to move or get off their contract but they all have very limited options, I think.
Agreed. There's no excuse for the THJ signing. He was inhouse so all his shortcomings should have been known.
I was screaming to sign Lonzo Ball instead, but I'm not a GM, lol. In my defense that would have been a better fit, but Lonzo can't seem to stay healthy.
(01-16-2023, 10:16 AM)Nowitzki Way Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder what this means for potential Hardaway trades. His name is definitely out there. But i think it shows that he would be a fall back for teams, and we're probably looking at a very minimal return.
I don’t think it is a coincidence that one day two teams are interested in THJ and less than a week later there are stories that say both of those teams have alternatives. This is exactly as you’d expect in a negotiation with a deadline that is 3+ weeks away. If you own THJ and multiple teams want him, you ask a high price. If you are pursuing THJ and the team that has him is asking a high price, you say (through the media) ‘fine, I’ve got alternatives…call me when your price comes down’.
(01-16-2023, 09:06 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]If Utah has Collins, do they keep Markannen? Has LM become a someone who would command two draft choices if you trade for him.
And if UTA gets JC they will turn him into a player worth 2 1sts as well.
(01-16-2023, 10:49 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]And if UTA gets JC they will turn him into a player worth 2 1sts as well.
Must be a nice feeling to have the trust in your GM and front office. Sure, Ainge has made a few mistakes but he is ruthless in trades. If he doesn't get exactly what he wants, he is fine waiting.
I don wonder what our roster would look like now if he was brought in a year and a half ago???
(01-16-2023, 10:21 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ] If you own THJ and multiple teams want him, you ask a high price. If you are pursuing THJ and the team that has him is asking a high price, you say (through the media) ‘fine, I’ve got alternatives…call me when your price comes down’.
You put in words exactly what i was thinking with the THJ situation. These new Miami/Clev rumors are in relation to the trade talks with Dallas.
(01-16-2023, 09:57 AM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]What about Kuzma?
I've always been a fan of Kuzma. I'd love him on this team. Just not sure what we could give up. Then upcoming player option that he will definitely exercise.
From Athletic Detroit guy. I don't see how we have anything of interest on a one to one trade for Noel.
Quote:The two sides have agreed a deal would be best for both, but that doesn’t mean a trade will manifest before the Feb. 9 deadline. If a deal doesn’t materialize by then, per league sources, Noel, who has a team option for $9.6 million, isn’t looking to accept a buyout. It’s likely the Pistons will just go into the summer with the plan to not pick up Noel’s option or, if they do, use it to accommodate a trade, if one materializes.
Quote:Per league sources, the teams most engaged in talks with the Pistons about Noel to date are the Miami Heat, Denver Nuggets and Dallas Mavericks.
Bonus Burks Content:
Quote:Per league sources, the Pistons have shown very little interest in trading Alec Burks before the deadline. The sense I’m getting is a team would have to vastly overpay for Burks’ services. Detroit would like to keep him going into the summer and for next season when, again, the organization hopes to turn a corner with its rebuild.
(01-16-2023, 11:30 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]From Athletic Detroit guy. I don't see how we have anything of interest on a one to one trade for Noel.
I like Noel as a bench big. But he's redundant with McGee here. So any trade for Noel would mean getting McGee out of town one way or another.
I feel like a Detroit trade has the potential to materialize. Just wonder if its a smaller trade for Noel or does it expand bigger to include Bogdanovich or Burks?
But as you said, not sure we have anything of interest to Detroit.
Detroit wanted Hardaway before and they’re in a position where they may lose Burks and Noel on the market for nothing while not being able to attract free agents.
Hardaway for Burks/Noel works financially too I believe.
I agree with Killer that Noel may be redundant with McGee here but he’s much better and would actually play. I hope whatever we do with Hardaway there is some way to send McGee out with him (while retaining picks), something like Hardaway/McGee for Hayward/Washington.
(01-16-2023, 10:41 AM)MFFL Wrote: [ -> ]Miami is FAR from a gang of idiots and they have Haslem on the list who is just as useful/useless as Pinson
Point taken, but I'd push back HARD on the Pinson/Haslem comp. I get what you mean: both are essentially cheerleaders, in a way. But, Haslem is Heat legend and team LEADER...basically a coach. Pinson is JUST a cheerleader.
I have no problem with the concept of having Pinson on the roster, or I would have said so back when they signed him. It's unlikely they would've filled that spot with anyone more useful, and Pinson probably does elevate the mood of the group. That's not nothing. But, something about this technicality just doesn't sit right with me. Would a second year (totally non-guaranteed) have solved the issue? I honestly don't know, but I'm tempted to say I would've simply opted not to sign him had I known about this beforehand. If given a choice between two one-year contracts attached to players who I hope will never play, give me the one with no power to mess with my plans, no matter how hypothetical and unlikely that scenario is.
I can tell this isn't bothering anyone else, which is fine. It bothers me!
Having Theo Pinson on the roster bothers me too. He is terrible. I'd rather use that spot for an actual NBA player.
His role as a cheerleader is overrated. Especially since he single handedly forced the NBA to change the rule about bench decorum. He is not as useful anymore.
I cringe every time he enters the game. Especially over Hardy. This makes no sense.
Pinson is a good basketball player without the physical traits to be an NBA level player. He's great in blowouts as he tries his hardest to not take shots and get his teammates involved instead. The problem we have now is that we are so injured that he is being inserted into games for minutes that matter.
Reading tea leaves...
I think the THJ to Cleveland talk is real. Let's call it LeVert plus a second. But, LeVert doesn't really do us much good longer term. So, it (probably/hopefully) requires a third team.
I think Collins ends up in Indy. BTW, that is a pretty nice remake in a short amount of time...Turner/Collins/Hield/Mathuran/Halliburton.
Indy has extra late firsts this offseason. They can eat all of the Collins money and still be a hair under the cap. HOWEVER, part of the strategy of bringing in Collins to play PF would be to do a 'Renegotiate and Extend' with Turner. So, they need to send enough outgoing money to get that deal done. For instance, if they send out $10mm in a Collins deal, they can use the cap room to renegotiate Turner to $28mm this season and extend based on that number. I have no idea what Turner is asking for, but I'm going to assume sending out $10mm in the Collins deal gets you in the neighborhood.
I could see Atlanta ending up with LeVert-plus in a deal for Collins. LeVert wipes the salary off the books for the new front office team. They need something that looks and smells like an asset to sell to their fans. Indy has draft capital...18, 24 (Cleveland), 30 (Boston) and 31 (Houston 2nd). There is also some willingness to move on from Duarte...maybe he is the developmental guy who is still there after LeVert expires and you add some of the Indy draft capital.
So, I've got THJ to Cleveland, LeVert/Duarte and a pick from Indy and the Cleveland second to Atlanta and Collins to Indy.
The Collins to Indy part is obvious and the THJ to Cleveland part is rumored. The question is what does Dallas get for THJ and what else does Indy send out to get the Turner money right? To me, the benefit of moving THJ is opening up PT for Green and Hardy. So, it probably needs to be PG's and Big's as the incoming. If all Dallas wanted was expiring money, they could just keep LeVert, so there has to be some future to the incoming asset (though probably not a future star...we are talking about THJ here).
Indy has bigs for days even before adding Collins. So, something from among J. Smith, I. Jackson, Theis and Bitadze. There is reporting out there that Indy is wiling to work with Bitadze (Schwartz...RFA this summer) to find him a new home. Theis (one year left plus TO) and I. Jackson are both represented by CAA. With Collins coming in, one would need to be moved to clear PT for the other. PG's who might be available include A. Holiday (UFA this summer), V. Krejci, Nembhard, McConnell (one more year plus $5mm Partial Guarantee in 24-25). With an open roster spot, Dallas could take back two players.
Lot's of combos here, all of which keep Cleveland under the tax and create the needed room for Indy to renegotiate and extend Turner.
Tax savings route: Bitadze and A. Holiday.
Dividing THJ into intermediate term contracts: McConnell and Theis.
Younger guys: I. Jackson and Nembhard.
Or just about any combination. Too many moving parts to land on any one, but in any case, there are ways to get value for THJ, move Green and Hardy up in the rotation and add something of value that is greater than just expiring LeVert. Why do Indy and Atlanta need Dallas at all? Because LeVert is an expiring contract who can play that Indy can't manufacture on its own while also retaining the space needed to extend Turner now.
-We shouldn't trade THJ just to trade him, especially if the return is going to be akin to the Harrison Barnes trade.
-Are we punting on the season? If no, THJ probably has more value to this team than what his outgoing trade value is currently.
-If the desire is to give Green and Hardy more minutes, that can be accomplished without shipping out THJ.
-If you give THJ away for nothing, that's just another data point that will help players not want to sign in Dallas. THJ has been the model professional and someone who genuinely likes being here. Ditching him at the first opportunity after a recent contract just sends the wrong message.
-He is a much more valuable asset next year and the year after, than he is this year.
And this is all coming from someone who hates THJ the player.
Reading Tea Leaves trade idea. Amazingly well thought out idea DanS.
I'm all for trading Hardaway. And dont see his value being very high. But I think i'd just take the Levert and the 2nd rounder option.
But you could tempt me on the "younger guys" option. I. Jackson and Nembhard are young and contributing. Adding those guys to our small list of young players (Green / Hardy) and we may be onto something.
I think a bad franchise looking for offense at an average efficiency would value THJ.
I´d say
Powell + J. Smith + Duarte to Atlanta
Levert + Bitadze to Dallas
THJ to Cavs
Collins to Indiana