MavsBoard

(02-01-2023, 03:42 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Are you implying that Chris Paul isn't a good enough PG to get value out of his big men?

What I am emphatically saying is that CP3 was shut down and neutralized. Which he was. Many factors led to that, the main one being is age. Paul is a fine point guard and one of the best set up guys of all time. But the Mavs took away his ability to run the offense. Ayton isn't a guy to create his own shot so he was also neutralized with that one move. 

(02-01-2023, 04:33 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]Ayton went 15pts, 8rbs, 0.4blks in 26 minutes.  Not exactly a franchise foundation performance.

But we're not asking him to be a franchise foundation player. Just a supplementary one to our current franchise foundation. Ayton's skillset covers many of Luka's deficiencies. And his offensive game can work around a guy that will take 25 shots a game. 

FWIW: Ayton in the Pelican series prior to the Mavs 20.5ppg/9.8rpg/1.2bpg on 70% FG shooting in 35 minutes.

(02-01-2023, 04:44 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]But we're not asking him to be a franchise foundation player. Just a supplementary one to our current franchise foundation.

Anyone eating up that much cap space needs to be much more than a supplementary player.  

Porzingis wasn't a bust here because he was a bad basketball player, he was a bust here because we paid him to be a GREAT basketball player and the second most important piece of the franchise and he couldn't be.  I have a ton of doubt that Ayton has what it takes to be the second most important piece of any franchise and that's how he's getting paid.

(02-01-2023, 04:41 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]keep SD (stop your sobbing, Kamm)

(02-01-2023, 04:51 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone eating up that much cap space needs to be much more than a supplementary player.  

I hear you. However I was referring to him being a supplementary player on offense, although I did not make that clear.


He'd be much more than that on the defensive end. Which is why I'm keen on adding him. He was an integral part in the Suns trip to the Finals, and had several key plays (offensively AND defensively) that won playoff games.

(02-01-2023, 12:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think Ainge is in the business of trying to sell high on guys or sell them before he loses them for nothing AND in the process acquiring guys he thinks he can get Will Hardy to bolster the value of. 

I bet Ainge thinks he could acquire DFS and then flip him in a year or two to a contender after some showcasing (DFS's contract makes this possible). Vanderbilt as an example needs to be flipped soon because of his contract.

The idea that Ainge is looking to trade for DFS in order to sell high on him in a couple of years would be a really strong argument for us holding on to him.

(02-01-2023, 04:44 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]What I am emphatically saying is that CP3 was shut down and neutralized. Which he was. Many factors led to that, the main one being is age. Paul is a fine point guard and one of the best set up guys of all time. But the Mavs took away his ability to run the offense. Ayton isn't a guy to create his own shot so he was also neutralized with that one move. 




But we're not asking him to be a franchise foundation player. Just a supplementary one to our current franchise foundation. Ayton's skillset covers many of Luka's deficiencies. And his offensive game can work around a guy that will take 25 shots a game. 

FWIW: Ayton in the Pelican series prior to the Mavs 20.5ppg/9.8rpg/1.2bpg on 70% FG shooting in 35 minutes.

Both can be true.  Yes, CP3 looked horrible.  Our longer defenders made him look overdue for retirement.  Yes, Ayton should have destroyed us, but was neutralized.  We had absolutely no one to defend him, went small, and unlike OKC, made him ineffective.

Um, have you looked at his contract?  You don't consider THAT to be a franchise player contract?

This is 2023.  Ayton isn't exactly a dinosaur, but certainly is dinosaur-ish.  We need bigs who can switch and guard the perimeter.

Ayton's defense?  The Suns are tied with the Mavs at 11th in team defense.  Ayton's defensive win shares ranks him 220th in the league.  Wood's ranked 184th.  You want Ayton to be the anchor of the defense?    Anchor is the right word for Ayton.

(02-01-2023, 07:10 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]Both can be true.  Yes, CP3 looked horrible.  Our longer defenders made him look overdue for retirement.  Yes, Ayton should have destroyed us, but was neutralized.  We had absolutely no one to defend him, went small, and unlike OKC, made him ineffective.

Um, have you looked at his contract?  You don't consider THAT to be a franchise player contract?

This is 2023.  Ayton isn't exactly a dinosaur, but certainly is dinosaur-ish.  We need bigs who can switch and guard the perimeter.

Ayton's defense?  The Suns are tied with the Mavs at 11th in team defense.  Ayton's defensive win shares ranks him 220th in the league.  Wood's ranked 184th.  You want Ayton to be the anchor of the defense?    Anchor is the right word for Ayton.

As @"dirkfansince1998" adequately put it not long ago, this board has a fetish for dinosaur centers. I don’t know if Ayton is there yet, but it won’t take long.

(02-01-2023, 06:02 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The idea that Ainge is looking to trade for DFS in order to sell high on him in a couple of years would be a really strong argument for us holding on to him.

You're saying that Ainge overvalues him so we should too?

(02-01-2023, 07:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]As @"dirkfansince1998" adequately put it not long ago, this board has a fetish for dinosaur centers. I don’t know if Ayton is there yet, but it won’t take long.

IMO, Robert Williams is the future of NBA bigs.  6'9", 235lbs, and can switch.

(02-01-2023, 06:02 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The idea that Ainge is looking to trade for DFS in order to sell high on him in a couple of years would be a really strong argument for us holding on to him.

Not at all IMO.

DFS is maxed out in value next to Luka for the Mavs. But Ainge could get him in Hardy's system and showcase him. DFS will never have the ability to be showcased in DAL like he would in UTA. Ainge can work to specifically showcase players (as he has done this year).

(02-01-2023, 07:20 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, Robert Williams is the future of NBA bigs.  6'9", 235lbs, and can switch.

I’d say the three players listed earlier today as front runners for DPOY are there, too: JJJ, Adebayo and Claxton. Interestingly, those were the three, exact examples I used over the summer as “prototypical modern centers”.

I like Williams, too.

Landon Thomas
[url=https://twitter.com/sixfivelando][/url]

The Dallas Mavericks have made a trade at the deadline the past 6 years:

2021-22: Spencer Dinwiddie, Dāvis Bertāns
2020-21: JJ Redick, Nico Melli
2019-20: Willie Cauley-Stein
2018-19: Justin Jackson, Zach Randolph
2017-18: Doug McDermott
2016-17: Nerlens Noel

I may be willing to gamble on Hayward if the main piece going out was Hardaway.  The tricky part is Charlotte would not want Hardaway.  He makes much less than Hayward but also goes an extra year longer.   So how about a three team trade:
Levert and Powell goes to Charlotte--Charlotte clears 31 million for next year
Hardaway goes to Cleveland-  Cleveland gets their shooter
Dallas gets Hayward-  This balances out dallas roster a tad if Hayward can stay healthy.  You will probably need to monitor his minutes heavily.  25 minutes a night to start.

Dallas could either go with that roster as it,  or maybe roll the dice more and trade Bullock to the Knicks for the lottery ticket Reddish and a young asset in Sims.

(02-01-2023, 07:20 PM)Ghost of Podkolzin Wrote: [ -> ]IMO, Robert Williams is the future of NBA bigs.  6'9", 235lbs, and can switch.

6’10, 240, very adept at switching = Dwight Powell. If he were officiated like Williams, he’d be the answer. If Williams came here, everyone would just hit him in the face.

(02-01-2023, 08:50 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I may be willing to gamble on Hayward if the main piece going out was Hardaway.  The tricky part is Charlotte would not want Hardaway.  He makes much less than Hayward but also goes an extra year longer.   So how about a three team trade:
Levert and Powell goes to Charlotte--Charlotte clears 31 million for next year
Hardaway goes to Cleveland-  Cleveland gets their shooter
Dallas gets Hayward-  This balances out dallas roster a tad if Hayward can stay healthy.  You will probably need to monitor his minutes heavily.  25 minutes a night to start.

Dallas could either go with that roster as it,  or maybe roll the dice more and trade Bullock to the Knicks for the lottery ticket Reddish and a young asset in Sims.

So we’re down to 1 playable center, and you want to throw him into a trade?

(02-01-2023, 04:51 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone eating up that much cap space needs to be much more than a supplementary player.  

Porzingis wasn't a bust here because he was a bad basketball player, he was a bust here because we paid him to be a GREAT basketball player and the second most important piece of the franchise and he couldn't be.  I have a ton of doubt that Ayton has what it takes to be the second most important piece of any franchise and that's how he's getting paid.

I really can’t agree with this. KP was baaaaaad here. He hurt our offense and then he hurt our defense and then he hurt our locker room. Yes, he also hurt our cap. But that didn’t make him a bad player. Playing bad did.