(01-07-2023, 09:36 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t understand how Bogi’s value has gone up from when Det traded for him? He has done worse this year than last has he not?
I guess it has something to do with his contractual status being resolved, now that he has been extended.
But I don’t really get it, either.
(01-07-2023, 08:57 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]The downside: Bogy's defense is horrendous (122 is really really really bad), per B-R. (He's the worst rotation regular on the 29th rated D in the league). His defense is so bad that he's probably a net negative player. And he turns 34 in April, with 2 more seasons after this one at 20M per.
Cannot agree. Watched him defend in last year’s playoffs. Not a bad defender. Bad at what he’s being asked to do in Detroit? Bad effort since he got his extension? I dunno. But sometimes numbers lie.
Re Bogy, I don't know whether he is the guy to target, or whether the price is right. Some comments ...
1 I figure Pincus' thinking is that DET would be getting their desired FRP for him from Dallas in part based on a willingness to take Bertans --iow, part of what Dallas would be paying for would be getting out from under the Bertans deal. And from the Mavs end, maybe they see it being worth it to pay to get rid of DB when in the same deal they can be getting a useful player too.
2 No discussion by Pincus of what sort of FRP he is thinking it would take, but FRP values are "negotiable" to some degree -- where the pick might be protected to a point, AND with the further possibility that some protection clauses, if triggered, roll a FRP into a second rounder.
3 As for BB's value, on offense there's no question -- he can score from anywhere and does it well (this season he's close to a 50/40/90 guy, which is incredibly elite efficiency).
4 As to whether BB sux as a defender, I would wager no one here really watches him play with any regularity and focuses on his defense, and I don't either, so I just see what the rating says. BR's number is their defensive PPP determination for a player, and it says he's awful, basically the worst defender on the league's worst defense. I have no idea how B-R determines their defensive rating, but if there is any validity to it, it's telling that it also says BB was UT's worst in each of the last 2 seasons as well (I didn't look any farther than that, because imo what he used to be years ago isn't all that relevant).
5 FWIW B-R ratings tell us Lavert is CLE's worst defender on the NBAs 2nd best D, which might be relevant for comparative purposes.
Bojan doesn't raise our ceiling so trading away a future first would be foolish. We already have a team full of offensive specialists that aren't wonderful on defense which makes them hard to pair with Luka in the first place. He's 33 and has a two year extension at 20M and 19M the final year. Two years after he expires, you'll owe Detroit your pick and his best days will be behind him. The only thing I'd consider is a swap for him and THJ and maybe tip a second rounder in the process but if Detroit thinks they can get a FRP for him, they aren't going to do that.
Lavert is only interesting if Cleveland sees value in THJ and is willing to tip for the swap. I'd also want a good tip. The problem is they don't have a ton of draft capital. Levert is expiring and has played over 70 games once in his career and every other year under 60. He really feels snake bitten and I'm not sure how investible he is long term.
(01-08-2023, 02:06 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]No discussion by Pincus of what sort of FRP he is thinking it would take, but FRP values are "negotiable" to some degree -- where the pick might be protected to a point, AND with the further possibility that some protection clauses, if triggered, roll a FRP into a second rounder.
Reports (I think it was Stein) said Detroit wants unprotected FRP for Bogi. They are reluctant to sell and half the league is hoping the price will go down.
As in LeVert case - Bogi is good player but he doesn't make Mavs a contender, so I would not do it, as he would limit flexibility in the summer. Plus his value will just decrease with each season due to his age.
If they really have to do it, I hope the pick is 2028. This would still leave them 2024, 2026 and 2030 to trade in the summer.
btw.: I read an interview with Doncics dad yesterday (Slovenian media). He says he thinks Mavs have good enough team for the title as it is. I hope this is not really what he (and his son) thinks
Bog is overrated. He’s worth kicking the tires over but the team doesn’t need to add a worst defender type player. I like VanVleet best as a realistic trade target but his contract situation is difficult, so I’m even having second thought there. You could probably get a heck of a player pairing Hardy with a big contract player, but I’m just not willing to trade him in any scenario. He’ll be a Jedi soon. At this point, maybe a tweak trade is most realistic to shore up a weakness or clear up some of the logjam of role players on the roster. If Hardy can contribute, THJ continues to regain his form, Green, DFS, and Maxi get healthy, and Kidd figures out who his best players are — this season may get a lot better. The West is in reach. My biggest fear is that we’re going to continue to see too many Frank/Wright/Reggie minutes.
(01-08-2023, 03:42 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]btw.: I read an interview with Doncics dad yesterday (Slovenian media). He says he thinks Mavs have good enough team for the title as it is. I hope this is not really what he (and his son) thinks
Thing is, the Mavs' tradeable players are THJ, SD (solitarily if we get a player who can also create his own shot back in the deal), DFS, Powell, Maxi, Bertans, Frank, Bullock, Wright, and McGee. If they trade Wood, that essentially mortgages any playoff chances this year. Hardy, Green, and more than one future first are absolutely untouchable. If some team wants our trash for treasure, that's great, but I have a hard time seeing how they're going to get anything back that makes us better.
(01-08-2023, 01:16 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I have a hard time seeing how they're going to get anything back that makes us better
Agree. I was always in the "be proactive camp", but I would just sit out this TDL, unless someone offers assets for Bullock and other trash we have. I don't believe Mavs could get into the "difference maker" deal at TDL, everything else is just wasting assets imho.
Maybe a big wing gets bought out and we have Maxi minutes available to offer? But I agree, unless it’s a no brainer they should sit tight. Someone mentioned the potential value in holding on to Bullock until after the pick conveys, as he’s effectively an expiring who counts double for trade matching purposes. And of course he’s still a useable player for this season and especially playoffs.
Luka + Lebron would be bonkers. Lebron knows when to cut to the basket and Luka would just be issuing dime after dime to him. Literally...it would be unfair.
Mavs 2024 first round pick prediction. Bronny James.
(01-08-2023, 02:22 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]So, would you spend a bank for him in the summer? He could be ideal next to Luka, but for how long?
NBACentral on Twitter: "Report: Multiple teams are preparing for possibility that LeBron James will look to force trade this summer https://t.co/qMJJCco1K8" / Twitter
-He'd have to want to come here.
-As is crazy as it sounds to say about a 38 year old, let's say he has two additional season of high productivity*.
-Next years salary is at least 46.9M. He has a player option for the following year of 50.6M
*He's been more prone to injury these last few years and most of his focus on the offensive side of the floor.
+Would make Luka happy to play with his idol.
+LeBron could help attractive veteran/minimum quality free agents.
=Would LeGM infect Luka's mindset with his GM tendencies? Could he also infect Luka with his greener pastures tendencies.
-You'd have to promise to draft his son.
I wouldn't give up much for LeBron and probably way less than what the Lakers would ask. He's old (finally susceptible to injury), he's expensive, doesn't play a lot of defense anymore, and has some worrisome red flags.
What would the trade package even be? Din + Bertans + McGee + '25FRP.
*shrug*
(01-08-2023, 02:51 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Just say no to Lebron.
![[Image: stop-it-get-some-help.gif]](https://media.tenor.com/mZZoOtDcouoAAAAM/stop-it-get-some-help.gif)
I'm pretty apathetic. It could further endear our franchise to Luka and that's the only reason to do it, if the costs were very reasonable. From a team build perspective, it's a cherry-on-top move while we are still missing the last scoop of ice cream and whipped cream and a very expensive cherry at that.
(01-08-2023, 02:43 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]What would the trade package even be? Din + Bertans + McGee + '25FRP.
That pick is likely not even enough to get you out of the bad salaries you proposed... LeBron is still one of the best in the game and Lakers are not sending him away for a bunch of bad salaries and one pick. Not even mentioning how much commercial income he brings. More realistic value would be those salaries and 3 picks.
I am fine if you think he is not worth the bank. I would consider it. I think LeBron can still play defense in the playoffs and a good team like Mavs would allow him to save more strength for the postseason. Try it for two years, than you try to attract FA.
(01-08-2023, 02:43 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]-He'd have to want to come here.
Of course
Lebron to Phoenix makes more sense to me. I’d rather save the picks for a young player to pair with Luka. No quick fixes
(01-08-2023, 02:56 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]That pick is likely not even enough to get you out of the bad salaries you proposed... LeBron is still one of the best in the game and Lakers are not sending him away for a bunch of bad salaries and one pick. Not even mentioning how much commercial income he brings. More realistic value would be those salaries and 3 picks.
I am fine if you think he is not worth the bank. I would consider it. I think LeBron can still play defense in the playoffs and a good team like Mavs would allow him to save more strength for the postseason. Try it for two years, than you try to attract FA.
Of course
LeBron is the best in the game in certain aspects and part of his game has already disappeared. Now you could argue that he'd have to do less here, could get a reduction in minutes and could focus more on the defensive end, but his talent level doesn't justify his salary anymore, he also has a 15% trade kicker. The Lakers can hope for a lot picks, but who is realistically going to give it to him. You'll have one guaranteed year of his services as his final year is a PO. And if he is demanding a trade, that greatly reduces their bargaining power. We'd still need salaries to match so rejigger my involved players all you like with the likes of THJ, Dorian, etc. I don't think he's worth more than a FRP personally, especially to the Mavericks. Any pick past the first will likely convey when he is retired. LeBron isn't going to want to go to a team with stockpiled draft picks and those teams aren't going to waste those picks on a one year rental. The market for his services could be fairly limited.
(01-08-2023, 03:07 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]LeBron is the best in the game in certain aspects and part of his game has already disappeared. Now you could argue that he'd have to do less here, could get a reduction in minutes and could focus more on the defensive end, but his talent level doesn't justify his salary anymore, he also has a 15% trade kicker. The Lakers can hope for a lot picks, but who is realistically going to give it to him. You'll have one guaranteed year of his services as his final year is a PO. And if he is demanding a trade, that greatly reduces their bargaining power. We'd still need salaries to match so rejigger my involved players all you like with the likes of THJ, Dorian, etc. I don't think he's worth more than a FRP personally, especially to the Mavericks. Any pick past the first will likely convey when he is retired. LeBron isn't going to want to go to a team with stockpiled draft picks and those teams aren't going to waste those picks on a one year rental. The market for his services could be fairly limited.
I think you are greatly undervaluing the market price of LeBron. 1 year rental of Kawhi cost DeRozan, Poeltl and FRP. With all the respect to Kawhi, I think LeBrons value is in another league. It makes zero sense for Lakers to trade him for a bunch of trash. LeBron brings more income to the team if he is just sitting on the bench for whole season.
Whatever it may be, my question was, if you would break a bank for LeBron? It seems your answer is no and I am fine with that.