(08-27-2022, 11:53 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Anyone for a smaller deal of Graham for Powell straight up?
1 Graham got beat out by Alvarado and
2 is on a 3 year $11.5-12.5M deal so
3 it is risky if he is what he showed last year
Then there's this ...
ttps://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/34206776/new-orleans-pelicans-guard-devonte-graham-arrested-charged-dwi
(08-28-2022, 12:04 AM)Mavs2022 Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is actually a pretty straight forward deal, if it happens.
Barrett/Fournier for Mitchell + picks.
This would leave the Jazz with max contracted RJ Barrett plus the rookies and ....
I don't think Ainge will go for a deal like that where he's buried in bad salary (or bad salary choices). He needs kids (to start the build for the next generation) not salary. Where's the expiring salary filler?
Fournier would be 2 seasons of ugly salary no one wants, an over-30 veteran highly-paid role player on a rebuilding team. Barrett will have to be very overpaid starting very soon (2023) with no good way to avoid it.
So if a deal happens, imo it's more likely to look like:
Picks (at least as many as Gobert fetched, and maybe one extra just because)
Rose (expiring)
Quickley, Grimes, and one of (Toppin/Barrett)
(08-28-2022, 01:22 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Ainge will go for a deal like that where he's buried in bad salary (or bad salary choices). He needs kids (to start the build for the next generation) not salary. Where's the expiring salary filler?
Fournier would be 2 seasons of ugly salary no one wants, an over-30 veteran highly-paid role player on a rebuilding team. Barrett will have to be very overpaid starting very soon (2023) with no good way to avoid it.
So if a deal happens, imo it's more likely to look like:
Picks (at least as many as Gobert fetched, and maybe one extra just because)
Rose (expiring)
Quickley, Grimes, and one of (Toppin/Barrett)
And that´s why everybody should apply to Rule No. 1
(08-28-2022, 01:22 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Ainge will go for a deal like that [Barrett/Fournier]where he's buried in bad salary (or bad salary choices). He needs kids (to start the build for the next generation) not salary. Where's the expiring salary filler?
Fournier would be 2 seasons of ugly salary no one wants, an over-30 veteran highly-paid role player on a rebuilding team. Barrett will have to be very overpaid starting very soon (2023) with no good way to avoid it.
So if a deal happens, imo it's more likely to look like:
Picks (at least as many as Gobert fetched, and maybe one extra just because)
Rose (expiring)
Quickley, Grimes, and one of (Toppin/Barrett)
Barrett is off the table now. Being extended. That looks like what I have been expecting, that if UT is letting go of Mitchell for a rebuild, they won't want to choke down multi-year big salary (Barrett, Fournier) with reduced attendance and revenues looming.
The deal (if it happens) now pretty much has to look like this for salary-match --
Picks
Rose or Fournier
Young pieces (Toppin, Quickley, Grimes)
Though a deal still isn't certain, I think it's more likely than not that if a Mitchell-to-NY deal happens, it would put Rose in play in the process. Rose, Toppin, Quickley, Grimes are enough to match Mitchell.
How much is Rose worth to the Mavs? I think he'd be a perfect fit for Kidd system IF the price was reasonable. Fortunately Ainge doesn't have time or latitude to hold out for perfect deals on the side moves, as he only has a month left to streamline his tank to start the season and jettison what's in the way. For a good guide to type of price it might take for Rose, maybe see the PatBev deal (no pick needed, THT and filler).
I think it's likely that Bogey gets moved too by UT, but I'm guessing he would be a completely separate deal cooking, as I don't see how NY could afford him too.
(08-30-2022, 03:37 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]The deal (if it happens) now pretty much has to look like this for salary-match --
Picks
Rose or Fournier
Young pieces (Toppin, Quickley, Grimes)
Though a deal still isn't certain, I think it's more likely than not that if a Mitchell-to-NY deal happens, it would put Rose in play in the process. Rose, Toppin, Quickley, Grimes are enough to match Mitchell.
Everything I've heard/read said Utah didn't want Barrett anyway. So, other than flipping him to a third team, his being off the table probably hasn't changed much.
Unfortunately, with Westbrook still on the table, the likely destination for the Knicks excess salary is LA. Rose or more likely Fournier and some combo of Utah Vets for Westbrook. LA's draft compensation would then go to Utah.
(08-30-2022, 06:25 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Everything I've heard/read said Utah didn't want Barrett anyway. So, other than flipping him to a third team, his being off the table probably hasn't changed much.
Unfortunately, with Westbrook still on the table, the likely destination for the Knicks excess salary is LA. Rose or more likely Fournier and some combo of Utah Vets for Westbrook. LA's draft compensation would then go to Utah.
Ya, that would be a quick way for LAL to turn it around.
I think I might want Conley, but I shutter to think what Ainge would require. Bogey would be fine, but not necessary. I’m out on Clarkson. If you can’t play defense, I don’t want you.
(08-30-2022, 06:25 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Everything I've heard/read said Utah didn't want Barrett anyway. So, other than flipping him to a third team, his being off the table probably hasn't changed much.
Unfortunately, with Westbrook still on the table, the likely destination for the Knicks excess salary is LA. Rose or more likely Fournier and some combo of Utah Vets for Westbrook. LA's draft compensation would then go to Utah.
I agree. I was under the impression that Barrett was not a focus for Utah. Although Woj appears to be saying this will make a Mitchell trade more difficult.
I am interested in the Knicks. I believe signing Barrett is good business. His game is not always appealing to the eyes, but I think in time he winds up a few time all star. My question, is of his fit with Jalen. It is much more difficult if they trade for Mitchell too. Can Mitchell, Barrett & Jalen finish games together? I would say yes, but it may not be ideal. Interesting that Jalen would find that more appealing that playing second fiddle to Luka. But here we are.
(08-30-2022, 03:37 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]How much is Rose worth to the Mavs? I think he'd be a perfect fit for Kidd system IF the price was reasonable. Fortunately Ainge doesn't have time or latitude to hold out for perfect deals on the side moves, as he only has a month left to streamline his tank to start the season and jettison what's in the way. For a good guide to type of price it might take for Rose, maybe see the PatBev deal (no pick needed, THT and filler).
If you are looking for a deal similar to PatBev, Maybe Green + Powell? Would you do it for Rose?
To me, there are two players up for grabs who make sense for the Mavs at this point: Conley and Clarkson. Both are available, but unfortunately either would require dealing with Ainge, so you'd probably have to overpay. I think I'd still do it, and my preference would be Clarkson, especially with Dinwiddie starting.
^ Conley's play could drastically go down this season, so I would prefer Clarkson too.
At least Clarkson can score.
JB couldn't defend well either so, the Mavs would be just replacing the scoring JB has left void (and continuing JB's liability). Also helps that Clarkson is almost as tall as Din, and can play both guard spots, in contrast to Conley who would just man the PG spot exclusively.
The odd man out in a Clarkson deal would be THJ, who's basically Clarkson with no handles, and no PG abilities. Pretty sure Utah wouldn't want THJ of... so Powell + ??? (I wouldn't want to give up a developing Josh Green).
(08-30-2022, 09:34 AM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]^ Conley's play could drastically go down this season, so I would prefer Clarkson too.
At least Clarkson can score.
JB couldn't defend well either so, the Mavs would be just replacing the scoring JB has left void (and continuing JB's liability). Also helps that Clarkson is almost as tall as Din, and can play both guard spots, in contrast to Conley who would just man the PG spot exclusively.
The odd man out in a Clarkson deal would be THJ, who's basically Clarkson with no handles, and no PG abilities. Pretty sure Utah wouldn't want THJ of... so Powell + ??? (I wouldn't want to give up a developing Josh Green).
Honesty, I am not crazy about either. I have given Conley a lot of thought as I thought he could be a guy pretty available. I have always liked Conley, but I was surprised how poor he looked in the first round of the playoffs. But my main reason for not being crazy about him is two years left on his contract at 23/24 million. Maybe I could change a little if Dinwiddie struggles or is injured again. But after Dallas supposedly was not crazy about tying up Brunson for multiple years at big #'s. So it would rub me the wrong way if they then trade for a an older player at a similar contract right after losing Brunson.
Clarkson is good. I think he would have better suitors than Dallas. Plus, it would take too many additional moves and it appears to be too much for this type of move. As you mention, we would probably need to find a taker to Hardaway who is a similar player. I will be interested to see what teams look at Clarkson. I think, in the right role, he could really help a good team.
(08-30-2022, 09:08 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]To me, there are two players up for grabs who make sense for the Mavs at this point: Conley and Clarkson. Both are available, but unfortunately either would require dealing with Ainge, so you'd probably have to overpay. I think I'd still do it, and my preference would be Clarkson, especially with Dinwiddie starting.
The big difference between the two is Clarkson will cost a first and Conley probably wont. I'm not interested in Clarkson (or Bojan) for a first.
I'm torn on Conley. He was really good last season and a perfect fit for what we need. But he is getting old and was just so bad in that playoff series. I'm not sure what we would send out for him? Do you do Timmy for Conley?
(08-30-2022, 10:01 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not interested in Clarkson (or Bojan) for a first.
Honestly, I'm pretty torn on that, too. I'm not enthusiastic about paying a pick for Clarkson, don't get me wrong, but on the other hand, I honestly think the roster is in a place where a guy like him could make a huge difference.
They have the shooting needed to create space (DFS, Kleber, THJ, Wood, Bullock, Bertans). There's reason to hope the team will be a little better defensively, even relative to last year (though I'm a bit more skeptical than some about this). And, I expect that Luka and Dinwiddie will BOTH have phenomenal seasons, if healthy.
I really think they're missing that 3rd creator, not because they absolutely MUST play two at a time, but because there will be nights when the 3rd guy has to play well in order for the team to win. There will be injuries, rest nights, nights when Luka and/or Dinwiddie just don't have their A-games, etc. I was really excited about a full season of Dinwiddie in that 6th man role, and while I feel he'll be nice as a Brunson replacement, I just don't see how they
then replace Dinwiddie (the 6th man version).
If I'm the Mavs, I'm at least talking with Ainge about Clarkson.
Dang, KL, you're on a roll today.
(08-30-2022, 06:25 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Unfortunately, with Westbrook still on the table, the likely destination for the Knicks excess salary is LA.
I can see Fournier as total crap for UT, so the idea arises that maybe he can be foisted onto LA instead. Fournier-Conley is a match.
But Ainge's obvious baseline for taking RW will be LA picks, separate from NY picks for getting DM. Will LA even let go of any? And it's picks w NY too. Then once you roll both swaps into one, the other 2 teams see the combined set of picks going to UT, and both balk at UT getting too many.
So I'm skeptical that LA/RW to the deal will be their answer. Often, adding another mouth to feed makes an already-hard deal impossible.
(08-30-2022, 11:29 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I'm pretty torn on that, too. I'm not enthusiastic about paying a pick for Clarkson, don't get me wrong, but on the other hand, I honestly think the roster is in a place where a guy like him could make a huge difference.
They have the shooting needed to create space (DFS, Kleber, THJ, Wood, Bullock, Bertans). There's reason to hope the team will be a little better defensively, even relative to last year (though I'm a bit more skeptical than some about this). And, I expect that Luka and Dinwiddie will BOTH have phenomenal seasons, if healthy.
I really think they're missing that 3rd creator, not because they absolutely MUST play two at a time, but because there will be nights when the 3rd guy has to play well in order for the team to win. There will be injuries, rest nights, nights when Luka and/or Dinwiddie just don't have their A-games, etc. I was really excited about a full season of Dinwiddie in that 6th man role, and while I feel he'll be nice as a Brunson replacement, I just don't see how they then replace Dinwiddie (the 6th man version).
If I'm the Mavs, I'm at least talking with Ainge about Clarkson.
I agree with all of this. I think Clarkson makes them better. But where are his minutes going to come from? I would argue mostly from Timmy. Clarkson is a better player than Timmy and a better fit, but is the difference worth a first?
I don't think Clarkson puts us into contention. I think we still need that number two (one that plays defense), and the only reasonable way to get him is via a bushel of picks. Sending one out for Clarkson makes that effort more difficult. And we can't use Clarkson in acquiring that player because he can walk. In fact, there is a reasonable possibility we send out a first for a one year rental. If we are sending out firsts, I'm aiming higher.
I really don’t understand why we need more scoring mostly guys. Luka is a 28-30 ppg scorer. THJ, SD and Wood are all 16-18 ppg scorers.
The only point of attack defender we have is Bullock. We should be looking at players like Derrick White who had a bad offensive showing in the playoffs but still brought defense. A guy who will find himself on the outs with Bos acquiring Brogdon.
That, or if we go the scoring only route (throwing defense out the window), Chi has been shopping Coby White for years now. He wouldn’t cost a FRP and you don’t have to deal with Ainge.
(08-30-2022, 02:03 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I really don’t understand why we need more scoring mostly guys. Luka is a 28-30 ppg scorer. THJ, SD and Wood are all 16-18 ppg scorers.
That's easy. 1) The Mavs unlocked a new level of success by having three create-their-own-shot guys in Luka, JB, and SD. JB is gone. 2) Wood and THJ both fall a little short of Brunson in terms of creating their own shot. Three creators is the formula - need another one. That's more important than any other Mavs' need right now.