(12-13-2022, 05:59 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]We do not need to burn one of the few assets we have on a mid 30's rental that is on a hot streak.
Agree. Mavs need to add two way players, not more specialists
You all watched a different playoff series than me last spring. In the one I watched, Bogs was the best player the Jazz had on both offense and defense.
Not interested in Bojan. But if the Mavs can get him with THJ and a second, then I'm all for it.
My preference is Hayes.
Sooner or later Detroit needs to trade him.
I do not envision Killian to be an all-star in the future, really far from it. But I can see him being an effective backup to Luka long term (and wouldn't cost JB-type money too).
SD should be the 3rd string PG as Killian is the better lead guard.
Wood+McGee+Frank+a second rounder for Hayes+Noel+Knox
If Detroit asks for Hardy instead of Frank, then fine, take away the second.
But would be nice to retain Hardy in case the Hawks asks for him in addition to THJ.
In case Hardy isn't a Mav by the TDL:
5 Maxi/DP/Noel/Collins
4 Collins/Maxi/DFS
3 DFS/Green/RB/Knoxx
2 Green/SD/Hayes/RB
1 Luka/Hayes/SD/Kemba
(12-13-2022, 05:59 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]We do not need to burn one of the few assets we have on a mid 30's rental that is on a hot streak.
I agree. Not for this team. They need athletic, defensive wings But a win now team that needs more scoring like Phoenix, he would fit. His contract isn't difficult to move either.
(12-13-2022, 11:32 PM)Razzmatazz_Hopskidillydoo Wrote: [ -> ]Not interested in Bojan. But if the Mavs can get him with THJ and a second, then I'm all for it.
My preference is Hayes.
Sooner or later Detroit needs to trade him.
I do not envision Killian to be an all-star in the future, really far from it. But I can see him being an effective backup to Luka long term (and wouldn't cost JB-type money too).
SD should be the 3rd string PG as Killian is the better lead guard.
Wood+McGee+Frank+a second rounder for Hayes+Noel+Knox
If Detroit asks for Hardy instead of Frank, then fine, take away the second.
But would be nice to retain Hardy in case the Hawks asks for him in addition to THJ.
In case Hardy isn't a Mav by the TDL:
5 Maxi/DP/Noel/Collins
4 Collins/Maxi/DFS
3 DFS/Green/RB/Knoxx
2 Green/SD/Hayes/RB
1 Luka/Hayes/SD/Kemba
I'm not sending out Hardy for Killian Hayes. He is surely worth more than a second rounder at this point.
If you send out Wood for Detroit package, how are you getting Collins?
You'd have to blow me away to get Hardy and I just don't see other front offices valuing him like that.
(12-14-2022, 12:58 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]You'd have to blow me away to get Hardy and I just don't see other front offices valuing him like that.
Me either. As you said, I don't think other teams view him that way. Some on here overvalue these players more than other teams do. I look at all these hypothetical trade scenarios proposed here, and say would other teams consider these moves? Some are head-scratchers Anyhow, most FAs become trade-eligible starting tomorrow...
(12-14-2022, 07:29 AM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]I look at all these hypothetical trade scenarios proposed here, and say would other teams consider these moves? Some are head-scratchers
Wisdom. I think it best to start with what the other team wants when trying to construct a fantasy trade. Too often we tend to start with getting off of our worst contracts. Unless someone with even worse money is coming back, it isn't going to happen. I think you also need to look at the other team's cap. Part of why Bogdanovic is such a nice fit in LA is he perfectly aligns with LeBron's timeline. Both are under contract in 23/24 and if Lebron opts out of his 24/25 year, Bojan is very lightly guaranteed. FWIW, I like Bojan. He'd add a very needed element here. But, he's not a premium defender or even a two-way player. His On/Off numbers are trending in the wrong direction. Master trader Danny Ainge only got Kelly Olynyk for him. It would be amazing if Detroit could turn him for an unprotected LAL pick (color me skeptical on the unprotected part).
Interesting dynamic as we enter 'trading season'...Of the ten teams with the best record this morning, only two (Phoenix and Memphis) own their own pick. Two of those top 10 teams do own someone else's pick currently. Brooklyn has Philly's pick and NO has LAL's pick. Four lottery teams don't currently own their own pick. The point being that a number of the teams with the most incentive to try to upgrade, don't have the near term draft capital to do so. I'm thinking fringe moves that would require a pick in the upcoming draft. There are tons of picks clustered among the bad teams if someone really good (requires multiple picks) were to come on the market. Portland, Philly, Cleveland, Denver, Milwaukee and Boston are just as stuck as we are. So we have a scenario where teams are asking Gobert prices and their trading partners are low on capital.
I just don´t really see how a trade with the Pistons makes any sense for them if the Mavs aren´t including a first round pick or Josh Green. It´s not like they need a guy like Wood to win 2-3 extra games this season. Same goes for other tanking teams. Mavs simply don´t have any extra picks or young talent they can (should) give up.
The only reasonable scenario for me involves players that have extra years on their contract. Help another team out and eat extra years in exchange for a talent upgrade. But that could potentially clash with Cuban´s willingness to pay.
(12-14-2022, 08:22 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Bojan... Master trader Danny Ainge only got Kelly Olynyk for him.
It's all about talent evaluation and fit. Some would say Olynyk is the better overall player, though Bojan is clearly a better scorer. Kidd's scheme against the Jazz in last year's playoffs was masterful -- and in a way, it could serve as a blueprint for how to beat the Mavs this year. Dallas payed so much attention to Mitchell and Conley that Utah needed Bojan on the floor to create offense ...and he did, so much so that he looked like Utah's best player. But he gave up just as much on the other end.
One can envision teams zoning up and trapping Luka a lot in the playoffs, forcing bigs like Powell, Kleber and Wood to make decisions in the middle of the floor. Wood is certainly the most competent player offensively and might average 25 ppg. But if he's getting big minutes to generate offense in the playoffs I'd guess that's exactly what opposing teams want.
(12-14-2022, 08:34 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I just don´t really see how a trade with the Pistons makes any sense for them if the Mavs aren´t including a first round pick or Josh Green. It´s not like they need a guy like Wood to win 2-3 extra games this season. Same goes for other tanking teams. Mavs simply don´t have any extra picks or young talent they can (should) give up.
The only reasonable scenario for me involves players that have extra years on their contract. Help another team out and eat extra years in exchange for a talent upgrade. But that could potentially clash with Cuban´s willingness to pay.
What if a team gives a pick/prospect + bad contract for Wood.
For example: Wood/Frank for Robinson/Jovic/'23 MIA 1st (lottery protected).
We could then turn Bullock/McGee/Jovic/'23 MIA 1st into Bogdanovic/Bey.
OBS: MIA wouldn't want the DET package because of the money implications, nor would DET take Robinson's albatross.
Luka/Dinwiddie
Hardaway/Green
Finney-Smith/Robinson
Bogdanovic/Bey
Powell/Kleber
A bunch of good 3-pt shooters with Luka generating wide-open looks. Our rebounding problem would only get worse, defense would take a slight hit and money would be a problem next year, but with our shot quality there's no excuse not to be the best offensive team in the league.
Bertans (or Robinson)/Bey/'24 DAL 1st could net us our starting center next summer.
Locked On Mav’s fantasy proposal today….who says no?
Collins/Bogdanovic (the Atlanta version)
For
Wood/THJ/Bullock
A few years ago “tweener bigs” were all the rage. Now, what do you do with someone who is too small to play center and not quick enough to guard the perimeter (sound familiar). So, they agree with the thought that Collins may make too much money for what he does. In fact, they had him coming off the bench following this trade. Bogdanovic expires a year earlier than Hardaway. Assuming BB picks up his PO this summer, he’s here long enough to integrate Green and Hardy more fully into the rotation. He’s also capable of some playmaking as a secondary guy behind Luka or SD.
They think this can be done without any picks or additional young assets coming from Dallas. I would point out that there is a $30mm disparity in long term money assuming Atlanta holds onto Bullock next season. In a deal where teams are just moving deck chairs around, that is a pretty big disparity. Add to that BB has been dinged up a bit this season. I think if I were Dallas I’d want to send out more long term salary than just Bullock OR get back some assets. So, I like the direction here. Wood and Collins need a change of scenery and we probably need BB more than we need THJ. But, I’d like to put McGee or Bertans in the deal instead of Bullock (or get paid some something for taking on all that extra salary).
(12-14-2022, 02:38 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]not quick enough to guard the perimeter
This is much more true for Wood than Collins though imo
(12-14-2022, 02:38 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Locked On Mav’s fantasy proposal today….who says no?
Collins/Bogdanovic (the Atlanta version)
For
Wood/THJ/Bullock
A few years ago “tweener bigs” were all the rage. Now, what do you do with someone who is too small to play center and not quick enough to guard the perimeter (sound familiar). So, they agree with the thought that Collins may make too much money for what he does. In fact, they had him coming off the bench following this trade. Bogdanovic expires a year earlier than Hardaway. Assuming BB picks up his PO this summer, he’s here long enough to integrate Green and Hardy more fully into the rotation. He’s also capable of some playmaking as a secondary guy behind Luka or SD.
They think this can be done without any picks or additional young assets coming from Dallas. I would point out that there is a $30mm disparity in long term money assuming Atlanta holds onto Bullock next season. In a deal where teams are just moving deck chairs around, that is a pretty big disparity. Add to that BB has been dinged up a bit this season. I think if I were Dallas I’d want to send out more long term salary than just Bullock OR get back some assets. So, I like the direction here. Wood and Collins need a change of scenery and we probably need BB more than we need THJ. But, I’d like to put McGee or Bertans in the deal instead of Bullock (or get paid some something for taking on all that extra salary).
I would pull this trigger, with or without the Timmy for Bogdan trade.
(12-14-2022, 02:38 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Locked On Mav’s fantasy proposal today….who says no?
Collins/Bogdanovic (the Atlanta version)
For
Wood/THJ/Bullock
A few years ago “tweener bigs” were all the rage. Now, what do you do with someone who is too small to play center and not quick enough to guard the perimeter (sound familiar). So, they agree with the thought that Collins may make too much money for what he does. In fact, they had him coming off the bench following this trade. Bogdanovic expires a year earlier than Hardaway. Assuming BB picks up his PO this summer, he’s here long enough to integrate Green and Hardy more fully into the rotation. He’s also capable of some playmaking as a secondary guy behind Luka or SD.
They think this can be done without any picks or additional young assets coming from Dallas. I would point out that there is a $30mm disparity in long term money assuming Atlanta holds onto Bullock next season. In a deal where teams are just moving deck chairs around, that is a pretty big disparity. Add to that BB has been dinged up a bit this season. I think if I were Dallas I’d want to send out more long term salary than just Bullock OR get back some assets. So, I like the direction here. Wood and Collins need a change of scenery and we probably need BB more than we need THJ. But, I’d like to put McGee or Bertans in the deal instead of Bullock (or get paid some something for taking on all that extra salary).
I like this direction, but only if it pushes Dinwiddie to the bench.
(12-14-2022, 02:53 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]This is much more true for Wood than Collins though imo
That's my feeling, too, but we need to be careful. That opinion might simply be the result of seeing one of them play much more frequently.
I like Collins...cautiously. But, there's got to be a reason he has been on the trade block for two years straight.
Trade 1:
To Hawks:
THJ
Bullock
Crowder
To Suns:
Collins
McGee
To Mavs:
Bogdanovic (two years)
Saric (expiring)
Okogie (expiring)
Biyombo (expiring)
Trade 2:
To Lakers:
Wood
Bojan Bogdanovic
Dinwiddie
To Detroit:
Bertans
Lakers top 5 protected pick
To Dallas:
Westbrook
Bryant
Lakers lottery protected pick
New team:
Doncic/Westbrook/Ntilikina
Bogdanovic/Walker/Hardy
Green/Saric/Okogie
DFS/Kleber/Powell
Biyombo/Bryant/TBD
I honestly believe the upside of this team is higher than the current one. It´s younger, has more upside and an excellent cap structure going forward.
(12-14-2022, 03:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]That's my feeling, too, but we need to be careful. That opinion might simply be the result of seeing one of them play much more frequently.
I like Collins...cautiously. But, there's got to be a reason he has been on the trade block for two years straight.
Ya I definitely understand all this and is a very fair concern. My assumption is mostly from the broader narrative you see around the web about how much his defense has improved and just watching clips. He certainly LOOKS more like someone who can move laterally against smaller guards/wings on the perimeter but you never really know until you watch a guy over and over (to your point).
Definitely feels like he's on the trade market because of all the young guys around him in the rotation needing their paychecks soon. Felt like the Hawks did what we should have done with Brunson, just overpay him and then figure out what that asset means big picture down the road and in their case, it means flipping him for some sort of value.
Guys, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop with this inept front office. You know what it is - Green included in a trade for a player with greater name recognition who ends up not having nearly as positive an effect the rest of the season as we have already seen Josh have.
(12-14-2022, 04:20 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Guys, I'm just waiting for the other shoe to drop with this inept front office. You know what it is - Green included in a trade for a player with greater name recognition who ends up not having nearly as positive an effect the rest of the season as we have already seen Josh have.
I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest this probably does not happen. I think they are high on both Green and Hardy and I don't think either go into a trade unless it is a significant asset coming back. This FO has had some stinkers, but they are actually much better at trades than FA (which has been a complete dumpster fire).
(12-14-2022, 04:59 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I'm going to go way out on a limb here and suggest this probably does not happen. I think they are high on both Green and Hardy and I don't think either go into a trade unless it is a significant asset coming back. This FO has had some stinkers, but they are actually much better at trades than FA (which has been a complete dumpster fire).
I'm thinking along these lines as well. We gave up on DSJ really early but it was clear Rick didn't have much faith in his development whereas Kidd seems to think highly of Green based on his play and speaks highly of Hardy.
There is one name that I think Cuban would be more than eager to give up Hardy with like 3 firsts next offseason...a big lanky guy in Brooklyn who already asked out once.