(02-01-2023, 02:13 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I don’t think Bertans is as pressing as THJ, and even THJ, if he isn’t moved if he shows up in the playoffs could make himself more valuable in the offseason. I think this TDL, if we’re trading players, it should be ones that many on the board don’t want to see leave. If there is a team that sees value in THJ, sure.
I wouldn't favor that as the preferred quest at all, to make the plan be one to get rid of players we want.
My bias is that I don't think THJ is helpful to have at all, nor Bertans, and will only get in the way of winning and better roster-building as long as they're here. I know he has a good game here or there, but he has too many crappy ones to make it worth the bother imo.
So to me, moving them off the roster has to be in view but I'd look to do it in a way that doesn't simply become a bribe to someone to take them. Which means, maybe the desirable might be used in a way where it ALSO sends out some trash or near-trash with it, and still get someone useful.
(02-01-2023, 02:44 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't favor that as the preferred quest at all, to make the plan be one to get rid of players we want.
My bias is that I don't think THJ is helpful to have at all, nor Bertans, and will only get in the way of winning and better roster-building as long as they're here. I know he has a good game here or there, but he has too many crappy ones to make it worth the bother imo.
So to me, moving them off the roster has to be in view but I'd look to do it in a way that doesn't simply become a bribe to someone to take them. Which means, maybe the desirable might be used in a way where it ALSO sends out some trash or near-trash with it, and still get someone useful.
We are for sure on the page with wanting them off the roster. With Bertans this offseason he is not much different than the expiring contract of Gallinari in my view. I want to use him in that way. Right now, he’s not really able to be used in that way (I think, but am happy to be wrong).
With THJ, he has had 2 playoff appearances with us where he looked pretty good. If there is a trade for him where the other team sees value in him, I have no problem moving on, I just don’t think there is much market for him. I think after another good playoff performance and only 2 years left on his contract, his value goes up that much more (now, to your point, if he fails this playoffs, him being movable is a much harder proposition).
I see this deadline where there are teams actually interested in DFS and Bullock, there might be a chance that Wood has greater-than-he-cost-us value too. An extend and trade option for a willing team with him might net us some favorable assets (or a cornerstone type player). Get him to Cha for PJ where if they luck into Wemby, he could play next to him, or if they don’t get a C, he can fill that role too.
Lots of ways to go, but my main focus this TDL is to get younger, then in the offseason look for a trade or two using picks and THJ/Bertans to get the higher end guys for right now. Hopefully they’re young too, but if not, the youth angle is covered with the guys we replaced right now.
Mostly AGREE with what you are saying.
I do think this team would be better without THJ. I would want to work with the positives you mention, with a hope there's another team that sees him in that "let's take a shot, he was good in the playoffs" sense, and might even offer a little something useful. He might even prove to be that upside guy, in a different setting. But I don't want the Mavs to wear those rose-colored glasses, because I think he is not a plus to have on this roster.
If they can't find a way to move him yet, so be it. I'm thinking the worst might be Lavert and a side tip like a 2nd, which I take if I can't do better. But my hope is that maybe THJ can be a neutral-value or even small-plus addition, for a team who sees potential in him, to be part of a bigger deal.
My lowest preference for THJ is to keep him -- I only do that if the only offers want me to bribe them to take him. That's the only way I would want to wait until later.
I agree there are teams interested in DFS and RB. Both are solid role players with favorable contracts. Those types actually have value around the league, and that reduced salary matters a lot. But to let them go, I want value reflecting all that, not just swap them out for randos with the thought of getting rid of them. I keep them for a later trade unless I am wowed. Summer is fine.
Still hoping Siakim, and now rather than later.
About Wood, there is no extend and trade option that could really happen. The only extension he'd take makes him untradeable. That's not a deal-killer, but it might be a factor in what trade is available or value you can get.
(02-01-2023, 03:49 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Mostly AGREE with what you are saying.
I do think this team would be better without THJ. I would want to work with the positives you mention, with a hope there's another team that sees him in that "let's take a shot, he was good in the playoffs" sense, and might even offer a little something useful. He might even prove to be that upside guy, in a different setting. But I don't want the Mavs to wear those rose-colored glasses, because I think he is not a plus to have on this roster.
If they can't find a way to move him yet, so be it. I'm thinking the worst might be Lavert and a side tip like a 2nd, which I take if I can't do better. But my hope is that maybe THJ can be a neutral-value or even small-plus addition, for a team who sees potential in him, to be part of a bigger deal.
My lowest preference for THJ is to keep him -- I only do that if the only offers want me to bribe them to take him. That's the only way I would want to wait until later.
I agree there are teams interested in DFS and RB. Both are solid role players with favorable contracts. Those types actually have value around the league, and that reduced salary matters a lot. But to let them go, I want value reflecting all that, not just swap them out for randos with the thought of getting rid of them. I keep them for a later trade unless I am wowed. Summer is fine.
Still hoping Siakim, and now rather than later.
About Wood, there is no extend and trade option that could really happen. The only extension he'd take makes him untradeable. That's not a deal-killer, but it might be a factor in what trade is available or value you can get.
Ok, that sucks about Wood, did not know that. Must’ve missed that convo if it was had here. Is it a money thing or a years thing?
With THJ, my biggest hope is to use him to get Levert sent to Cha as part of a package to get at least PJ. Something at the very least, THJ and a second to Cle, Levert, Powell and our last second for Rozier and PJ. Just not sure how motivated MJ is to get off Rozier’s 4 year deal. I don’t mind trading Powell either, even if it means extended minutes of PJ at C until Wood and Maxi get back (fingers crossed). I also understand the news from Cha that they want to keep PJ, but that is a crap ton of money savings being given to Cha.
With NYK being interested in Bullock, but I don’t think he is enough to ask for Quickley, DFS would be the right guy, but we would need more than Quickley. Something like DFS for Quickley, Hartenstein and our first back? Hartenstein hasn’t worked out for them, and having DFS on the team they could go in a direction of Randle at C so DFS can be in his more comfortable spot at the 4, at least for stretches of the game. Can also go JB/Barrett/DFS/Toppin/Randle.
The hope is that Hartenstein just needs a change in scenery, but it’s not fully necessary given that Quickley and the first are the actual targets.
That builds a team going forward of:
Luka/Quickley/Green/PJ/Wood
SD/Hardy/Bullock/Maxi/Hartenstein
Very young team with SD and Bertans being expiring assets to go get something to fill the holes with. I also understand that Kidd would probably have SD start with Quickley coming off the bench, just wishful thinking to get the youth movement rolling.
After we get past the point where we can trade Wood (because of the extension he will sign) and since this is apparently a Mavs thought. Wood, SD and a first? for Ayton. I personally am not sure I want him here (definitely not if it takes a first, but never know if that’s what they will do), but I think that package gets him (they get their PG and fill in the hole Ayton leaves with Wood).
That’s now:
Luka/Quickley/Green/PJ/Ayton
*Hole*/Hardy/Bullock/Maxi/Hartenstein
Can we use our remaining assets to go after OG and a backup ball handler? Can Hardy fill in that role this quickly?
I thinking about a 9 man set roster of:
Luka/Quickley/OG/PJ/Ayton
Hardy/Green/Maxi/Hartenstein
(02-01-2023, 05:56 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]With NYK being interested in Bullock, but I don’t think he is enough to ask for Quickley, DFS would be the right guy, but we would need more than Quickley. Something like DFS for Quickley, Hartenstein and our first back? Hartenstein hasn’t worked out for them, and having DFS on the team they could go in a direction of Randle at C so DFS can be in his more comfortable spot at the 4, at least for stretches of the game. Can also go JB/Barrett/DFS/Toppin/Randle.
The hope is that Hartenstein just needs a change in scenery, but it’s not fully necessary given that Quickley and the first are the actual targets.
I watched the Knicks game last night and Quickly was good. He played most of the fourth and overtime. I don't think we have the pieces we are willing to offer to get him. I think the KNicks keep him. If they do move him, it will be a part of the package for OG. Not for a guy like Bullock or even DFS.
I have read about including Hardy in a package for him. I don't see that either. Quickly is the much better player and he may always be the better player. But Hardy is something this team has lacked for a long time. A young kid on a cheap extended contract who you can let grow. Right now, he is just a tip in a trade. If he is moved in the future, let him develop under your watch first where he brings back more. I have bigger hopes with him on the Mavs, but now is not the time to include him in a trade as a tip. The goal is to get him to a stage where he earns more minutes next year and is a top 8 rotation player. When he can do that, I think you will see a jump pretty quickly. A lot of of ups and downs but player development needs to take priority. This team is much better off via the roster and/or trade assets if Jaden turns out to be what I expect him to be.
Back to DFS/Utah:
The Hardwood Knocks podcast dealt with some questions around DFS/Utah and separately about Vanderbilt’s value. Some highlights:
Whenever a rumor is out there about a player under a LT contract, the initiator of the rumor is probably the team interested in acquiring that player (so Utah). So, Utah lets it out, reporter asks the Mav’s and they say only for a star. It is different when a player’s contract is almost up. In those cases, the player’s agent is probably the source…trying to drum up interest.
The host didn’t think Dallas should make a DFS deal at the TDL. He thinks Finney is the kind of player who would help with a star acquisition in the summer.
He thinks Vanderbilt makes sense as outgoing. Utah struggles to play Kessler and Vanderbilt together (DFS as the better 3 point shooter makes sense alongside Kessler and Markkanen). He thinks Vanderbilt is worth ‘almost’ a first rounder on his own, but because of his low salary, it is hard to realize that value. He is more likely to be paired with someone like Beasley, Conley or Clarkson to add value to a deal for that player.
Personally, I don’t see DFS as a realistic trade chip now unless something else much bigger is afoot. If the host here is correct that Utah is the source, then it flies in the face of what McMahon said about Utah smiling and fielding calls. It means they are trying to steal players they like from desperate teams (which they view Dallas as). I don’t doubt for a minute that they want DFS. I just don’t think they want to pay anything for him. One implication of any Dallas willingness to discuss something involving DFS and Vanderbilt (if they are) is they plan to keep Wood. Vanderbilt is a bit bigger and stronger than DFS. While he doesn’t fit with Kessler well, he would fit with Wood. He was a defensive monster next to KAT the last two seasons.
(02-01-2023, 02:33 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]That sounds like the starting framework of the right type of deal. But Wood would be an expiring contract and no way to do an extend-and-trade where it's at a salary and years he is expecting. I'm sure there would be other issues too, making it hard to find a win-win.
I actually think Wood's expiring status is of great value to PHX, given that they're paying CP3 a boatload of money for at least 1 more year.
As to investing big money into a center, I feel as if Ayton's skillset is closest to 2nd star material that we can hope next to Luka, as he really doesn't command much attention on the offensive end, and is willing to be a premier defender.
He's able to be a versatile switch defender with size. That alone makes him worth it imo.
(02-01-2023, 12:00 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]As to investing big money into a center, I feel as if Ayton's skillset is closest to 2nd star material that we can hope next to Luka, as he really doesn't command much attention on the offensive end, and is willing to be a premier defender.
Man, I couldn’t agree less. I just don’t see much value with Ayton at all.
He’d help on the glass, but I’m not sure he’s the defender you’re painting him to be and he’s straight up BAD on offense. Can’t consistently punish small players, wouldn’t do much better than Powell as a trap outlet. Gets paid a LOT.
I’m not even saying I’m right - just that every time I watch him, I see “bust” and then 3-4 people here are fawning over him. I don’t get it.
(02-01-2023, 10:52 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]It means they are trying to steal players they like from desperate teams (which they view Dallas as).
I think Ainge is in the business of trying to sell high on guys or sell them before he loses them for nothing AND in the process acquiring guys he thinks he can get Will Hardy to bolster the value of.
I bet Ainge thinks he could acquire DFS and then flip him in a year or two to a contender after some showcasing (DFS's contract makes this possible). Vanderbilt as an example needs to be flipped soon because of his contract.
(02-01-2023, 12:13 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I couldn’t agree less. I just don’t see much value with Ayton at all.
He’d help on the glass, but I’m not sure he’s the defender you’re painting him to be and he’s straight up BAD on offense. Can’t consistently punish small players, wouldn’t do much better than Powell as a trap outlet. Gets paid a LOT.
I’m not even saying I’m right - just that every time I watch him, I see “bust” and then 3-4 people here are fawning over him. I don’t get it.
The only reason I put him in my scenario is because of the tweet saying we might have interest down the road. I do think there is a chance he needs a change of scenery from the last couple years involving his contract status. However, that would indicate diva status and I wouldn’t want that either. I’m colder than warm on him, but if the Mavs are in on him, I don’t know where else to go other than try and see the fit.
(02-01-2023, 12:30 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...7285721088
DAL in: Holmes, GTJ, Len.
DAL out: Bullock, Powell, McGee, '25 DAL 2nd.
TOR in: Powell.
TOR out: GTJ, '23 IND 2nd (via SAC), '24
SAC 2nd, '25 DAL 2nd.
SAC in: Bullock, McGee.
SAC out: Holmes, Len,
'23 IND 2nd (via SAC), '24 SAC 2nd.
Luka-GTJ-Green-DFS-Wood with Dinwiddie-THJ-Kleber-Holmes coming off the bench.