(09-09-2022, 10:08 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]No argument here. But, the rumor of the day says we are interested in Bogdanovic. So, trying to make sense of it.
Maybe it isn't Timmy to Utah. Maybe it is Bertans and Green for Bogdanovic and Butler and the bench becomes Maxi/Wood/Mr. Bojangles and Hardaway with Butler becoming a developmental more D-oriented version of the Burke role. That bench would be pretty unstoppable.
This got me to thinking about the 3rd team. Cavs have a need for a SF and have s big expiring in KLove. There is a trade that gets all salaries really close with teams getting basically what they want.
To Cle: THJ, Gay and Bojan
To Utah: KLove, Bertans, Levert and draft pick(s)
To Dal: Conley and Clarkson
Would get us 2 more PGs which I would hate, but Conley’s contract is primed for salary matching next year and if he actually works out here, Clarkson resigned.
Luka/Conley/Hardy
SD/Clarkson/Frank
Bullock/Green/Pinson
DFS/Maxi
McGee/Wood/Powell
Good team for at least a year.
(09-09-2022, 10:52 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]This got me to thinking about the 3rd team. Cavs have a need for a SF and have s big expiring in KLove. There is a trade that gets all salaries really close with teams getting basically what they want.
To Cle: THJ, Gay and Bojan
To Utah: KLove, Bertans, Levert and draft pick(s)
To Dal: Conley and Clarkson
Would get us 2 more PGs which I would hate, but Conley’s contract is primed for salary matching next year and if he actually works out here, Clarkson resigned.
Luka/Conley/Hardy
SD/Clarkson/Frank
Bullock/Green/Pinson
DFS/Maxi
McGee/Wood/Powell
Good team for at least a year.
Dallas would need to give up a FRP (maybe two) to get that accomplished. Mostly because of Utah eating Bertans.
(09-09-2022, 12:51 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Dallas would need to give up a FRP (maybe two) to get that accomplished. Mostly because of Utah eating Bertans.
If we’re following the valuation of the podcast, Conley is negative value and Clarkson is worth 2 seconds. Bertans isn’t an expiring, but his remaining contract value is less than Conley’s. Based on that, we give 2 seconds and Cle gives a first.
That gives the value as reported and lowers the salary overall for Conley.
(09-08-2022, 07:38 PM)audiosway Wrote: [ -> ]I'd be down for that. I have a feeling we are going to see Schroeder added for an extra ball handler. Kidd seemed to like him with the Lakers. He'd be a good extra ball handler. Kidd could definitely keep his ego in check.
Dang, good point: JKidd already knows Schröder! I didn't have this fact on my radar, and now adding him would make even more sense!
Again: Schröder for cheap is great value and I'd love to have him on board.
(09-09-2022, 02:20 PM)WillE Wrote: [ -> ]Dang, good point: JKidd already knows Schröder! I didn't have this fact on my radar, and now adding him would make even more sense!
And it might make their potential decision
not to sign him make even more sense, too. We'll see.
(09-09-2022, 02:20 PM)WillE Wrote: [ -> ]Dang, good point: JKidd already knows Schröder! I didn't have this fact on my radar, and now adding him would make even more sense!
Again: Schröder for cheap is great value and I'd love to have him on board.
I was trying to remember his time in LAL. The team was a disappointment and maybe some of that was due to his play. But I thought he was pretty solid there. Didn't LAL offer him a large deal during the season that he turned down? Then when they made the Westbrook trade there was not more room for him?
From all reports, he was not good in Boston last year and appears to have a history of being a difficult guy to get along with, but his numbers in LAL look pretty good and his year prior in OKC was really good. Is there a chance to recapture some of that as a falling star?
(09-09-2022, 01:26 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]If we’re following the valuation of the podcast, Conley is negative value and Clarkson is worth 2 seconds. Bertans isn’t an expiring, but his remaining contract value is less than Conley’s. Based on that, we give 2 seconds and Cle gives a first.
That gives the value as reported and lowers the salary overall for Conley.
I don't really agree with those valuations but if all it would cost us a few seconds, sign me the hell up.
(09-09-2022, 02:20 PM)WillE Wrote: [ -> ]JKidd already knows Schröder! I didn't have this fact on my radar, and now adding him would make even more sense!
The fact that Kidd knows Schroder can cut both ways. It doesn't necessarily mean "so Kidd can figure out to handle him" -- it could also lead to "so Kidd wants him nowhere near this team." Kidd will be the driving force here, without a doubt, but from what I've heard of Schroder, I don't think you'd want him.
I happened to stumble across the Athletic’s Top 125 and found it interesting where some of the Utah players ranked. Here is the current rank and prior year rank for Bojan, Conley, Beverley and similarly ranked Mav rotational players.
Bojan. 5A. 4B
Conley. 5A. 3B
Beverley. 5A. 5A
Maxi. 5A. NR
Wood. NR. 4B
Hardaway. NR. 5C
Dinwiddie. 5A. 4B
Bertans. NR. 5A
DFS. 4A. NR
Brunson. 4A. NR
As a frame of reference, a player in the 4’s is ranked between 41-84 and a player in the 5’s is ranked 85-125. Roughly speaking, 3rd starters and 4th starters. This isn’t about the lack of another top 20 player next to Luka. That is well documented. This is about how transient and situationally dependent players are once you get past the top 40 or so.
Interestingly, heading into 2021/22 Bertans was ranked higher than THJ (and that was before Hardaway’s injury). Wood and Bojan were both 4B’s and DFS, Maxi and Brunson weren’t ranked a year ago. I can certainly see adding someone at the level of Bogdanovic to this group (BTW, the only two 2nd rounders we have in the next six seasons are in 25 and 27).
The projected starters are a 3&D role player, a Roll&D role player, Luka and two players who have been ranked in the 4’s one of the last two seasons (two third starters). The strength of the team would be bench guys at four positions whose highest ranks have been 4B, 5A, 4B, 5C and 5A in Wood, Maxi, Bojan, THJ and Bertans (but one of Bertans or THJ would be gone if Bogdanovic is here). If Bertans were the outgoing, you’d have a C, PF, SF and SG coming off the bench who are all ranked as 4th starters at some point in the last two years. The lineup flexibility would be incredible. The same would be true if the trade brought in Conley instead of Bojan. BTW, Conley is owed almost the same amount of guaranteed money at $37mm as Bertans at $38mm. NBA teams often look at total salary owed rather than year by year salary in evaluating trades.
I know the article said we were interested in Bojan. Similarly ranked Beverley yielded a prospect rather than a pick, but that prospect was a trade match and our prospects don’t get there even if Powell is included. I think it would be much easier to deal the similar money of Bertans with prospect Green for Conley and lesser prospect Butler (who can play the Burke role), but I’d be happy with either Conley or Bogdanovic. My preference would be to substitute Frank going out instead of Green. Not sure that works for Utah though.
With the cap projected to rise to 134M in 2023, the contracts of Doncic, DFS, Kleber look a lot better. Then so would Brunson´s deal.
Even THJ´s decreasing contract becomes less of a liability.
Let´s just hope they don´t crap the bed again doing some more dumb shit like McGee to kill their flexibility for 2023 and 2024.
(09-10-2022, 09:40 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I happened to stumble across the Athletic’s Top 125 and found it interesting where some of the Utah players ranked. Here is the current rank and prior year rank for Bojan, Conley, Beverley and similarly ranked Mav rotational players.
Bojan. 5A. 4B
Conley. 5A. 3B
Beverley. 5A. 5A
Maxi. 5A. NR
Wood. NR. 4B
Hardaway. NR. 5C
Dinwiddie. 5A. 4B
Bertans. NR. 5A
DFS. 4A. NR
Brunson. 4A. NR
As a frame of reference, a player in the 4’s is ranked between 41-84 and a player in the 5’s is ranked 85-125. Roughly speaking, 3rd starters and 4th starters. This isn’t about the lack of another top 20 player next to Luka. That is well documented. This is about how transient and situationally dependent players are once you get past the top 40 or so.
Interestingly, heading into 2021/22 Bertans was ranked higher than THJ (and that was before Hardaway’s injury). Wood and Bojan were both 4B’s and DFS, Maxi and Brunson weren’t ranked a year ago. I can certainly see adding someone at the level of Bogdanovic to this group (BTW, the only two 2nd rounders we have in the next six seasons are in 25 and 27).
The projected starters are a 3&D role player, a Roll&D role player, Luka and two players who have been ranked in the 4’s one of the last two seasons (two third starters). The strength of the team would be bench guys at four positions whose highest ranks have been 4B, 5A, 4B, 5C and 5A in Wood, Maxi, Bojan, THJ and Bertans (but one of Bertans or THJ would be gone if Bogdanovic is here). If Bertans were the outgoing, you’d have a C, PF, SF and SG coming off the bench who are all ranked as 4th starters at some point in the last two years. The lineup flexibility would be incredible. The same would be true if the trade brought in Conley instead of Bojan. BTW, Conley is owed almost the same amount of guaranteed money at $37mm as Bertans at $38mm. NBA teams often look at total salary owed rather than year by year salary in evaluating trades.
I know the article said we were interested in Bojan. Similarly ranked Beverley yielded a prospect rather than a pick, but that prospect was a trade match and our prospects don’t get there even if Powell is included. I think it would be much easier to deal the similar money of Bertans with prospect Green for Conley and lesser prospect Butler (who can play the Burke role), but I’d be happy with either Conley or Bogdanovic. My preference would be to substitute Frank going out instead of Green. Not sure that works for Utah though.
I'm finding it hard to believe that Wood is not ranked this year. Also, you said you stumbled on to the top 125 list. Is there a way to see that list without paying to join the Athletic?
(09-10-2022, 09:40 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I know the article said we were interested in Bojan. Similarly ranked Beverley yielded a prospect rather than a pick, but that prospect was a trade match and our prospects don’t get there even if Powell is included. I think it would be much easier to deal the similar money of Bertans with prospect Green for Conley and lesser prospect Butler (who can play the Burke role), but I’d be happy with either Conley or Bogdanovic. My preference would be to substitute Frank going out instead of Green. Not sure that works for Utah though.
I have been feeling like Bertans might play an important role on some nights if the team is good, for the same reason we're excited about Kleber and Wood. Big guys who can shoot create space for everyone else, and you can never have enough of that. BUT, if Bojan is the return, there's a guy who can play some stretch 4 for you off the bench
every night, in a regular, dependable role.
Therefore, I would be very into this idea.
(09-09-2022, 03:00 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]The fact that Kidd knows Schroder can cut both ways. It doesn't necessarily mean "so Kidd can figure out to handle him" -- it could also lead to "so Kidd wants him nowhere near this team." Kidd will be the driving force here, without a doubt, but from what I've heard of Schroder, I don't think you'd want him.
Absolutely no doubt there. LA did offer him a good deal that he turned down. My point is that either way if he comes to Dallas it's because Kidd knows he can work there.
I think he's a good player. He just has an ego that didn't fit with Boston.
I like Bojan, Conley and Clarkson well enough as players. While they would all add value, I’m not sure that any of them are needle movers. At least not in the way we need, even though any of the three would undoubtedly make us better. I’d much rather wait and see what progress Josh Green has made and save our picks for a bigger deal. Bojan and Conley (especially) are a little past their primes, even though they should continue to be solid contributors for another year or two. Conley has an extensive injury history. I think Utah will struggle to move him unless they attach a small asset like one of the young guys they acquired in trade. I love what Bojan brings offensively but I think his D slipped some last season. Now, if Ainge wants to do Conley (or Bojan) a solid and move him to the team of his choice for essentially another comparable contract and useless picks or Frank then I’d be all over that, and I kind of like what Bertans brings too. Doesn’t seem like a ver Ainge thing to do. Otherwise, find our 3rd ball handler in the vet bargain bin and take a wait and see approach as far as what needs this team will have after we get Wood, McGee and our youth assimilated.
(09-10-2022, 02:08 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]NBA Trade Rumors: Jazz Think Bogdanovic, Clarkson, Beasley Are Worth 1st-Round Picks | News, Scores, Highlights, Stats, and Rumors | Bleacher Report
It's a very interesting situation.
I think they
are worth late firsts in a market flush with them. But, with all the teams who'd want such players trying to save picks, and all the teams who have picks not being the type of destination where those players would be happy or helpful, I'm not sure they'll get 1sts for them.
Since Utah is doubtlessly hoping to be the worst team in the league (their own first is one of the prizes in the recent trades) they
really need to unload those guys (especially Conley, I'd think). Plus, those guys are for sure hoping to get traded to any team where they'll have a chance to matter - we can assume that.
It would take an enormous dickhole to hold onto these guys because the market doesn't yield the return he's hoping for, especially since Utah will probably have to bench them a bit to have the kind of season they're hoping to have.
But, Ainge might just be that type of dickhole.
I'm super fascinated by stuff like this.
Could the Mavs be a part of a three way trade for Bojan? Let’s say it is Phx. If they included a heavily protected first and salary….wouldn’t Crowder be a part of that salary? I tried playing around on three team trade ideas but couldn’t find one. The issue is an expiring Crowder could probably bring more than a Mavs offer, I think.
What about Toronto? A heavily protected first plus salary. If that salary was Thad Young, could he be an option? He is more of a 4 now, so he may not be of interest to Dallas.
It’s fascinating reading this thread. Bojan was (my opinion) far and away the best opponent in our first round series. He was the only one (as I recall it) who played both offense and defense for them. They tried to ride him harder and harder as the series wore on, and he was game. He just wore down. I think he’d be the second best player here.