Simmons is so terrible we would literally be better off just waiving THJ and Bertans. Simmons is such a negative that we'd be better off with nothing than having him on the team.
Still believe you take the swing on....
THJ+DB+McGee
for
BS+asset
(11-07-2022, 04:56 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Still believe you take the swing on....
THJ+DB+McGee
for
BS+asset
Can't trade McGee for a bit. What's the asset?
(11-07-2022, 04:56 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Still believe you take the swing on....
THJ+DB+McGee
for
BS+asset
I think I do that, too.
Based on recent events, I sure wouldn't do it the THJ/Powell way, and isn't that an interesting turn?
Any good investor knows to buy low and sell high. But sometimes you buy low, and it goes to zero.
Ben Simmons, Kyrie, and Russell Westbrook are all intriguing players who have shown significant talent in the past, but their high contracts and recent play make them undesirable.
Are they LESS desirable than our current underperforming players? That's the question.
Kyrie isnt an underperforming player. High contract? Yes. Deserving based on talent level? Yes Can he still perform? Yes.
He is different than the others based on actual talent and being able to play still. You can claim he has missed games due to butting heads with the league and say that is underperforming when he is highly paid...but make no mistake...Kyrie can ball to this day. There is no underperforming as far as skill goes with Kyrie.
Nets fans on twitter want Dinwiddie and Wood for him hahahahahahahahahahHahahahaha
I went back and watched every second Ben Simmons was on the floor against the Mavs.
On defense, the Nets switched everything so Simmons had very few opportunities to guard anyone. But he was active off the ball, it looked like he made all the right rotations and he rebounded well. He had a few opportunities in the second half to guard Luka. Luka got him once on a great move, so he went at him again and Simmons forced a turnover. Luka's amazing no-look behind the head to Kleber under the basket was also against Simmons, who was blanketing him. Then on the Mavs final possession of regulation, with the Mavs up by 2 with 12-seconds left, Simmons doubled and got the steal and assist that forced overtime. All told, Simmons played well on defense but more like a shut down corner with no targets against. Dallas pretty much stayed away from him.
On offense, he played nothing like Ben Simmons in Philly. ... But I can't say it was much his fault. He only brought the ball up a handful of times and guys never passed to him. He was a willing screener, but usually rolled to the dunker spot and other guys handled the playmaking. There were at least two times when he did handle, drove into the paint and found an open 3pt shooter, but guys weren't ready to shoot, so nothing happened. There were multiple times when he set backside screens to open up corner 3s but not once did Kyrie or KD find the open shooter. Multiple times he started to jump to catch a lob dunk but the pass never came. All told, Simmons played ok on offense but he'll NEVER be Ben Simmons again on that team.
We just can’t take the risk of crippling the franchise fellas
Ben: Too much money for a guy whose optimal roll here would be a better passing Dwight Powell on offense. And tbh Dwight is probably a better finisher due to not being scared of getting fouled.
Kyrie: This is 2022. There is a chance he is permanently cancelled and never plays in the NBA again.
(11-07-2022, 03:26 PM)RoyTarpleysGhost Wrote: [ -> ]He looks flat to me.
I think people are underestimating the effect of the Mavs making the Western Conference Finals last year. It’s human nature to no longer have urgency in November and December when you’re expecting to play into May. It could be subconscious or it could be a conscious attempt to save yourself for the stretch run and playoffs. Bullock and DFS especially were playing 40 minutes in every playoff game.
I think that’s why Green and Powell look so good. They’re playing at a higher energy level than the rest of the team.
Different sport but Sean McVay says once you reach a certain level as a team, the only point of the regular season is to prepare for the playoffs.
I certainly hope this team doesn't think they've reached that point!
(11-07-2022, 05:26 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think I do that, too.
Based on recent events, I sure wouldn't do it the THJ/Powell way, and isn't that an interesting turn?
How many different chances does Simmons gets to show he wants to play basketball?
Either his injury was so debilitating that robbed him of his prime, or his mental is so beyond gone that makes him a damaged player anyways. KD was the latest guy to voice his frustrations.
He's not good. He's a risk the Mavs can't afford to take. Ben Simmons would implode this team and I'm convinced a move for him would nuke this franchise for decades.
At least THJ+Bertans can shoot a ball further from 5 feet away. That is apparently too much to ask for from Simmons.
Same goes for Kyrie.
(11-07-2022, 06:18 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]I went back and watched every second Ben Simmons was on the floor against the Mavs.
On defense, the Nets switched everything so Simmons had very few opportunities to guard anyone. But he was active off the ball, it looked like he made all the right rotations and he rebounded well. He had a few opportunities in the second half to guard Luka. Luka got him once on a great move, so he went at him again and Simmons forced a turnover. Luka's amazing no-look behind the head to Kleber under the basket was also against Simmons, who was blanketing him. Then on the Mavs final possession of regulation, with the Mavs up by 2 with 12-seconds left, Simmons doubled and got the steal and assist that forced overtime. All told, Simmons played well on defense but more like a shut down corner with no targets against. Dallas pretty much stayed away from him.
On offense, he played nothing like Ben Simmons in Philly. ... But I can't say it was much his fault. He only brought the ball up a handful of times and guys never passed to him. He was a willing screener, but usually rolled to the dunker spot and other guys handled the playmaking. There were at least two times when he did handle, drove into the paint and found an open 3pt shooter, but guys weren't ready to shoot, so nothing happened. There were multiple times when he set backside screens to open up corner 3s but not once did Kyrie or KD find the open shooter. Multiple times he started to jump to catch a lob dunk but the pass never came. All told, Simmons played ok on offense but he'll NEVER be Ben Simmons again on that team.
He also has some post up game from about the same spot Luka gets his post plays from. It would be a way to get him some on-ball touches.
If you want Wood to start, this is the kind of defender you'd want next to him (of course, you'd want him to hit 3's and FT's also, but that guy will cost two starters and three future firsts...minimum). But, Simmons and any two of DFS, Green and Reggie plus Luka would provide enough secondary ball handling to allow Dinwiddie to come off the bench (and finish) and provide enough D to make Wood as a starting center more palatable.
Of course, I have no idea if Simmons is right or ever will be. But, if the price was really low and I had medical reports and a pro-scouting department telling me he'll be fine, I think the strategic part of this could work. Of course, I'm the idiot who doesn't understand modern basketball and thinks you can actually employ one non-shooter somewhere on the floor (you know like almost every team does).
(11-07-2022, 06:57 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]If you want Wood to start, this is the kind of defender you'd want next to him (of course, you'd want him to hit 3's and FT's also, but that guy will cost two starters and three future firsts...minimum). But, Simmons and any two of DFS, Green and Reggie plus Luka would provide enough secondary ball handling to allow Dinwiddie to come off the bench (and finish) and provide enough D to make Wood as a starting center more palatable.
If you do it, this is why.
(11-07-2022, 06:38 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]How many different chances does Simmons gets to show he wants to play basketball?
Either his injury was so debilitating that robbed him of his prime, or his mental is so beyond gone that makes him a damaged player anyways. KD was the latest guy to voice his frustrations.
He's not good. He's a risk the Mavs can't afford to take. Ben Simmons would implode this team and I'm convinced a move for him would nuke this franchise for decades.
At least THJ+Bertans can shoot a ball further from 5 feet away. That is apparently too much to ask for from Simmons.
Same goes for Kyrie.
Why did I get singled out, lol? It was @"Kammrath"'s post - I was just agreeing.
(11-07-2022, 06:38 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Same goes for Kyrie.
I'm with you, there. Wouldn't touch him with a 10-foot pole.
(11-07-2022, 06:57 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Of course, I'm the idiot who doesn't understand modern basketball and thinks you can actually employ one non-shooter somewhere on the floor (you know like almost every team does).
Why do you keep doing this? It's not an accurate characterization of the opposing view. I mean, I think this is close to how @"IamDougieFresh" feels, and I respect his take, but the rest of us are talking about DEFENSE when we argue, not OFFENSE. I feel like I've pointed this out about 10 times, so I'm starting to feel fairly trolled.
(11-07-2022, 06:19 PM)IamDougieFresh Wrote: [ -> ]We just can’t take the risk of crippling the franchise fellas
Ben: Too much money for a guy whose optimal roll here would be a better passing Dwight Powell on offense. And tbh Dwight is probably a better finisher due to not being scared of getting fouled.
Kyrie: This is 2022. There is a chance he is permanently cancelled and never plays in the NBA again.
Sending out Timmy+Bertans+McGee for Ben is not crippling the franchise. Even if he turns into a total bust we actually shaved off over 20 mil in year 3.
This is why I think folks are kidding themselves that the Nets are going to take on three negative contracts for Ben (plus an asset). The actual cost will likely be more than anybody on here wants to pay.
(11-07-2022, 07:37 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]The actual cost will likely be more than anybody on here wants to pay.
Well if that’s the case I hope they don’t do it. But, I hope they’re not assuming the price is too high without kicking the tires.
(11-07-2022, 07:37 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Sending out Timmy+Bertans+McGee for Ben is not crippling the franchise. Even if he turns into a total bust we actually shaved off over 20 mil in year 3.
This is why I think folks are kidding themselves that the Nets are going to take on three negative contracts for Ben (plus an asset). The actual cost will likely be more than anybody on here wants to pay.
I don’t think Luka would be okay with 1/3 of our cap going to a useless player. This is the worst case scenario, but the chance of it happening is way too high imo.