MavsBoard

(08-17-2021, 01:46 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]Latest article from a person who has sources in Chicago...

https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/...ng-pattern

Most interesting part was the last sentence. If the Bulls cannot (due to league interference) or won´t engage in trade talks because of the tampering investigation this could turn into another Dragic like situation. Mavs are forced to play the waiting game.

Quote:Teams with trade exceptions, like the Pelicans and Mavericks, are also logical landing spots. With the league investigating tampering charges on the Bulls’ acquisition of Ball, it’s unlikely those teams would be allowed to discuss sign-and-trade negotiations right now.

So Markkanen’s holding pattern continues. Free agency always is a game of musical chairs, fluid and fast and furious. The music hasn't stopped, but it's slowing.

(08-17-2021, 10:19 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Perfect. This should tell us quite a bit about where KP and the new Mavs additions are to start the season.

Christmas games are not the start of the season anymore. It was just the one time.

In fact, the 2021-22 season is starting even earlier than the old normal, with camp beginning in late September, and regular season games close to the middle of October.

https://www.nba.com/key-dates

They're starting earlier so they can get more money per game in before a potential chance of lockdown or stoppages in play short or long term...

(08-17-2021, 02:32 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Christmas games are not the start of the season anymore. It was just the one time.

Yeah, duh, sorry. Momentary lapse in brain function on my part.

IMO, it says a lot for the league popularity that they are moving the start date up.

Go back 25+ years and there was worry about conflicting with NFL/NCAA football and MLB playoffs/World Series, nevermind NHL. I guess there are so many outlets now that they feel there is enough bandwidth to accommodate an earlier start. Plus it gets some of the early tune-up games out of the way before more people are watching.

(08-16-2021, 07:32 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]There is a whole lot of projection going on here for a guy that has been in the league 4 years, shown limited if any improvement, and has been demoted to the bench.  I realize he is young, but generally when you project growth in a 4 year player its because you have seen some level of progression.

If you are sending out Maxi for LM that means you are probably salary matching somewhere close to his 15 mil asking price.  That is an overpay unless he shows some significant improvement you are hoping for.  Meanwhile, Maxi is an asset on his contract, and much better fit for this teams needs.  We are already a top 10 offense and a below average defense.  We better have a really good reason to dump one of our few good defensive rotational players.

And the odds of LM reaching "Third banana on championship team" are virtually zero.  His defense at best will be passable, and he will never be able to protect the rim.  He can't create for himself or others.  I'm not even ready to call him an elite shooter yet.  He has had one good season in that area, and most of it was due to taking more wide open shots.  I realize he may have some upside, but I feel like people are talking themselves into more than is really there, and the market seems to agree.

Thank you for this post. I am appalled people actually think Lauri Markkanen is actually good? He is available for peanuts for a reason. His draft status is overlooking the scrub that he actually is. 

He is a poor man's poor man's Porzingis. His ceiling is a Bobby Portis type of offensive option off the bench but even then he lacks the toughness and energy Portis provides. Long term, he's closer to a guy like Anthony Tolliver honestly. 

And before anyone asks, yes, I have seen soft af Lauri Markkanen play and I've probably seen him more than anyone here since I live in Chicagoland area and regularly see Bulls games. As you mentioned, he has shown zero improvement. No midrange game, no go-to moves. He is god awful defensively. The only skill he can somewhat rely on is 3PT shooting, which is only average to above average. 

I don't think he comes here anyways because his role would/should be off the bench. Sounds like he wants to play big minutes and make that dough. Not opposed to having him on the team of course, but no worthwhile assets should be given. 

If you want to take a chance on a young talent, give me Jarred Vanderbilt over Lauri Markkanen by a country mile. 2 years younger, versatile, energy/hustle player who can actually play defense and rebound.

Appreciate the perspective @"Fuerza1" I have not watched the Bulls much, much less scouted Markannan. 

That said, I think most fans thought THJ sucked too... but now he's a 6th man candidate playing next to Luka.

I wonder how much better a guy like Kleber looks in a lineup with Luka.

I wonder if Markannan's playing style (apparently soft af) belies his true impact which, at least according to certain advanced maetrics like VORP, is above average and in fact, ahead of Kleber.

(08-17-2021, 04:54 PM)Fuerza1 Wrote: [ -> ]Thank you for this post. I am appalled people actually think Lauri Markkanen is actually good? He is available for peanuts for a reason. His draft status is overlooking the scrub that he actually is. 

He is a poor man's poor man's Porzingis. His ceiling is a Bobby Portis type of offensive option off the bench but even then he lacks the toughness and energy Portis provides. Long term, he's closer to a guy like Anthony Tolliver honestly. 

And before anyone asks, yes, I have seen soft af Lauri Markkanen play and I've probably seen him more than anyone here since I live in Chicagoland area and regularly see Bulls games. As you mentioned, he has shown zero improvement. No midrange game, no go-to moves. He is god awful defensively. The only skill he can somewhat rely on is 3PT shooting, which is only average to above average. 

I don't think he comes here anyways because his role would/should be off the bench. Sounds like he wants to play big minutes and make that dough. Not opposed to having him on the team of course, but no worthwhile assets should be given. 

If you want to take a chance on a young talent, give me Jarred Vanderbilt over Lauri Markkanen by a country mile. 2 years younger, versatile, energy/hustle player who can actually play defense and rebound.

I won't go so far as to say he is a scrub but I am hesitant to give up Maxi who is reliable and loved in the locker room for a guy that has not really played when it matters. 

I am supportive of the addition if we keep Maxi. 

I am 100% against giving up our rotational pieces where we lose guys with unique skillsets and the guy coming is only marginal better.

(08-17-2021, 01:15 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]BBall Index.  You have to be careful of the exact data you are looking at.  His total “Roll Man Impact” is a pedestrian 48th percentile.  But, that includes rolling, popping and slipping.  As I said, he’s 88th percentile in terms of his impact rolling to the basket and 13th and 12th percentile in “rolling” into a Pick and Pop or “rolling” into a screen Slip.  His Roll/Pop/Slip splits are 43%, 39% and 7%.  So he’s doing too much of the things he’s not good at and not enough of the things he is good at in the PNR in terms of his overall impact (yet he’s still in the 88th percentile).  

By contrast, Maxi is in the 93rd percentile in total “Roll Man Impact”.  He’s terrible at rolling to the basket…25th percentile (but he only does that 13% of the time he’s in the PNR).  He pick and pops 60% of the time and is in the 97th percentile on those (so he does more of what he’s good at and less of what he’s not).  

IF you look at them on the various compilation metrics, Maxi and LM are two sides of a coin.  LM is much better offensively…much.  Maxi is much better defensively…much.

Sounds like a good argument for LM and Maxi to share the front court next year

(08-17-2021, 05:46 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Appreciate the perspective @"Fuerza1" I have not watched the Bulls much, much less scouted Markannan. 

That said, I think most fans thought THJ sucked too... but now he's a 6th man candidate playing next to Luka.

I wonder how much better a guy like Kleber looks in a lineup with Luka.

I wonder if Markannan's playing style (apparently soft af) belies his true impact which, at least according to certain advanced maetrics like VORP, is above average and in fact, ahead of Kleber.

Actually his VORP has not changed significantly from year to year is generally around .7 (and his BPM is generally a little below average).  Maxi had a dip this year (probably due to Covid and achillis issues, but folks seem to think he is on a downward trajectory at 29). but had a VORP of roughly 1 the previous two years (with a BPM a little above average).  I like VORP as a box score stat, but box score stats are not terribly good at determining defensive impact.

I have no doubt that Lauri would benefit offensively from playing with Luka, but the team benefits a lot defensively from having Maxi on the floor.

My dream is for a Mavs big-man rotation of:

Holmes-Kleber
WCS - Markkanen
Boban

My pipe-dreamy path to get there is
1) On Oct 1, Powell-Burke-Brown-TPE for Markkanen-Dragic (leaves Mavs an empty roster slot for the time being)
2) On Dec 15, KP- ________ for Holmes-Halliburton-_________ (Hield, Bagley, Barnes, junk?)

(08-17-2021, 07:40 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]My pipe-dreamy path to get there is
1) On Oct 1, Powell-Burke-Brown-TPE for Markkanen-Dragic (leaves Mavs an empty roster slot for the time being)
2) On Dec 15, KP- ________ for Holmes-Halliburton-_________ (Hield, Bagley, Barnes, junk?)

I think the most unrealistic part of this is having Haliburton included. I think KP for Holmes+Hield is a much more realistic return.

(08-17-2021, 08:20 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think the most unrealistic part of this is having Haliburton included. I think KP for Holmes+Hield is a much more realistic return.

Having to swallow Heild's contract is a huge negative, Holmes by himself wouldn't make up for that.

(08-17-2021, 12:22 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.mavs.com/partnership-profitx/

The Mavs have badly needed to be way better at how much they pay for talent.

But it looks like these people are selling their analyses to anyone and everyone. How is that an advantage, to be dealt a bit better cards that you will always have to play face up? This is not being the smartest guy in the room, to make this your process to get an edge with.

(08-17-2021, 09:21 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]But it looks like these people are selling their analyses to anyone and everyone. How is that an advantage, to be dealt a bit better cards that you will always have to play face up? This is not being the smartest guy in the room, to make this your process to get an edge with.

I am assuming and guessing that this partnership means that the Mavs will be getting some exclusive work from this company....otherwise it would have to be more gimmicky in the sense of ProFitX basically paying the Mavs for advertising them and getting their name out there.

(08-17-2021, 09:21 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs have badly needed to be way better at how much they pay for talent.

But it looks like these people are selling their analyses to anyone and everyone. How is that an advantage, to be dealt a bit better cards that you will always have to play face up? This is not being the smartest guy in the room, to make this your process to get an edge with.

You may understand what's going on here more than I do, but I don't quite understand the criticism. I'm thinking this is a way to gather information, not a way to farm out value determination. Am I wrong?