MavsBoard

(08-04-2021, 12:09 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]My personal take on it is that the Mavs dont' really want Dragic all that bad. 
They want to swap Powell for Dragic for the obvious reasons of too many centers, and a lack of playmaking guards. And to make Luka happy of course. 

But they don't value him in any sort of way. The value in the deal is offloading Powell which has been what the Mavs have been rumored to be trying to do the last few days. 

That sets them up to be opportunistic in trades this year and free agency next year because they would have all their contracts easy tradable good players. They all sort of have some value.

They desperately need a secondary playmaker.  In the short term Dragic makes a lot of sense for that purpose alone.  Making the superstar happy seems like another good reason.  I don't see a lot of other options.

(08-04-2021, 12:05 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]"Mavs don't want to pay $19M" is one of the "obstacles" to a Dragic deal we've heard mentioned.

Also
"Mavs don't want to give up Powell and WCS"
"Mavs don't want to give up Green, Brunson, Terry"
"Mavs just want to sign Dragic after he's bought out"
"Raps would not buy out Dragic, they'd rather keep him"
"Raps just want a team that will take Dragic into space"
"Raps don't want Powell's contract"
"Raps want lots of value because Dragic is valuable"

And on and on we go.

Meanwhile, Dragic is commenting on how he loves the idea of playing with Luka, and how he's not sure where he will be playing, and how he's waiting on a "third team" to be included in the MIA-TOR trade.

My observation? None of the "obstacles" are The One Big Thing to be taken at face value. They are all just negotiating items by one side or the other, a bunch of negotiating through the media, as everyone is jockeying to get an outcome more to their preference. I'm sure there's some truth in some of those items (for example, it's probably true that the Mavs wouldn't want to give up BOTH Powell and WCS, and leave the roster so thin at center) but there's a lot of BS-ery too.

I think they'll figure it out. And I'm glad to see the Mavs are not just rolling over and giving TOR whatever they happen to demand.

Thanks. Honestly been waiting for you to show up and give us an updated take.  

The bolded above is the part of this whole thing I'm enjoying the most. Way more important than whether we get Dragic, to me, is that we're going business this way now, and not just rolling over in every deal.

Do you have any guesses on what the ONE BIG THING is?

I think the Mavs should walk away from the deal if they don't get exactly what they want. You have to be willing to walk away to be good negotiatiors.

(08-04-2021, 11:22 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/WashedMavsBlog/statu...0106375177

I partied too early.

If it was anyone but Dragic to walk away from, kind of a special situation imo, I think it would mean something to Luka to have a chance to play with him sooner than later.  Plus, Dragic fills a real need and is effective.  So much cheaper than Dinwiddie.

Also, Dallas and Slovenia will be so close we can make a mutual defense alliance with them.

Don't forget there's another player in the DAL-TOR negotiation -- Bill Duffy (on behalf of Dragic).

Dragic can always try to facilitate a buyout at a discount, so that he can play elsewhere. And he can ask the Mavs "how much salary will you pay me, if I can get a buyout" to see how close he can come to being made whole.

That creates MANY more moving parts --
1 Mavs have to explore NY sign-and-trade for Bullock, in order to preserve their MLE and then use some or all of it on Dragic.
2 Mavs have to evaluate if they PREFER to move off Powell and his salary, as one of their objectives (in which case, they want to work harder for a trade)
3 Mavs have to decide if they prefer GD on a multi-year (or 1+1) deal, instead of an expiring 19M one.
4 Mavs have to decide what their preferred SNT would look like, and perhaps how they manufacture some filler salary (for example, do they trade Powell-Redick, with JJR going to a 3rd team?), and compare that to all the other possibilities.

There are a lot of angles in play here, even if it looks like a simple thing from afar.

(08-04-2021, 12:28 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Don't forget there's another player in the DAL-TOR negotiation -- Bill Duffy (on behalf of Dragic).

Dragic can always try to facilitate a buyout at a discount, so that he can play elsewhere. And he can ask the Mavs "how much salary will you pay me, if I can get a buyout" to see how close he can come to being made whole.

That creates MANY more moving parts --
1 Mavs have to explore NY sign-and-trade for Bullock, in order to preserve their MLE and then use some or all of it on Dragic.
2 Mavs have to evaluate if they PREFER to move off Powell and his salary, as one of their objectives (in which case, they want to work harder for a trade)
3 Mavs have to decide if they prefer GD on a multi-year (or 1+1) deal, instead of an expiring 19M one.
4 Mavs have to decide what their preferred SNT would look like, and perhaps how they manufacture some filler salary (for example, do they trade Powell-Redick, with JJR going to a 3rd team?), and compare that to all the other possibilities.

There are a lot of angles in play here, even if it looks like a simple thing from afar.

This is astute and a good reminder. Many ways to "skin the cat" here.

If Luka demands we get Dragic, then do what it takes. Otherwise play it smart. Luka would rather have a great team in a few years than a average team for the next 5 years. We've always built through trades and we need to get rid of the reputation of being pushovers.

(08-04-2021, 12:30 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]This is astute and a good reminder. Many ways to "skin the cat" here.

Yes it is. These type of creative thinking thoughts is why I push back so hard when people use close-minded thinking. It’s all about numbers, and when dealing with numbers, there are so many ways to make things work. Just have to have better creative thinkers (or more) doing the cap work than we’ve had in the past!

(08-04-2021, 12:32 PM)BigDirk41 Wrote: [ -> ]If Luka demands we get Dragic, then do what it takes. Otherwise play it smart. Luka would rather have a great team in a few years than a average team for the next 5 years. We've always built through trades and we need to get rid of the reputation of being pushovers.

I don't think there is any hint that Luka is the type to "demand" players.  I don't want them to get pushed over, but if we end this offseason without getting a secondary playmaker it will be a complete failure.

Is it bad that I'd now be excited about Dinwiddie, especially if we get rid of Powell?

(08-04-2021, 12:14 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Do you have any guesses on what the ONE BIG THING is?

If we're talking about obstacles to Dragic-to-Dallas, I don't think there is any "One Big Thing" that's stopping the deal. That's my point.

It's just negotiating, with both teams thinking they can do better somehow, or add more value to their end, yet all 3 sides probably being better off if they get something done instead of walking away. How that will look at the end, who knows. (My one conclusion on the outcome -- if TOR likes the idea of Powell on their roster, with his Canada roots and character and hustle and some role player playability, a trade will happen somehow instead of a buyout or a nothing.)

(08-04-2021, 01:06 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Is it bad that I'd now be excited about Dinwiddie, especially if we get rid of Powell?

Yes. It shows that we are getting desperate.

Edit - Grammar police: Reminder for myself. Reread the post after you edited it.

(08-04-2021, 01:08 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. It shows that we are getting into desperate.

(08-04-2021, 12:28 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Don't forget there's another player in the DAL-TOR negotiation -- Bill Duffy (on behalf of Dragic).

Dragic can always try to facilitate a buyout at a discount, so that he can play elsewhere. And he can ask the Mavs "how much salary will you pay me, if I can get a buyout" to see how close he can come to being made whole.

That creates MANY more moving parts --
1 Mavs have to explore NY sign-and-trade for Bullock, in order to preserve their MLE and then use some or all of it on Dragic.
2 Mavs have to evaluate if they PREFER to move off Powell and his salary, as one of their objectives (in which case, they want to work harder for a trade)
3 Mavs have to decide if they prefer GD on a multi-year (or 1+1) deal, instead of an expiring 19M one.
4 Mavs have to decide what their preferred SNT would look like, and perhaps how they manufacture some filler salary (for example, do they trade Powell-Redick, with JJR going to a 3rd team?), and compare that to all the other possibilities.

There are a lot of angles in play here, even if it looks like a simple thing from afar.

It has been really tough to keep up with the board the last few days.  I did see the Dragic Discount repaid by the Dallas MLE post and liked the idea.

I notice that the agent for Boucher is the same as the agent for Burke and WCS.  One way I might give up more of our youth might be to do something involving Boucher, but I’d prefer the ability to extend him now.  Question, Boucher’s guarantee date is 8/8.  Before that date, can he be traded with zero salary counting (like Moses apparently was)?

My thought is you do the Powell/Green/Terry for Goran deal with non-guaranteed Boucher coming also.  Then, you cut him and sign him with the MLE.  Is there something about Boucher’s non-guarantee that is different than the way you characterized the Moses deal the other day?

I know it's probably the appeal of the unknown but I want to keep Terry.

(08-04-2021, 01:22 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I know it's probably the appeal of the unknown but I want to keep Terry.

In like 5 days we should have more "known" on him than we have in awhile. Looking forward to it.

(08-04-2021, 01:28 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]In like 5 days we should have more "known" on him than we have in awhile. Looking forward to it.

True and I'm also looking forward to it.  OTOH, Bey showed out in the G-League last year and he's gone now.  He was abysmal in his limited minutes with the Mavs though.

I dunno, I'm pretty down on Green right now so if the choice was between Green and Terry, I'd like to hold onto Terry.

(08-04-2021, 01:32 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]True and I'm also looking forward to it.  OTOH, Bey showed out in the G-League last year and he's gone now.  He was abysmal in his limited minutes with the Mavs though.

I dunno, I'm pretty down on Green right now so if the choice was between Green and Terry, I'd like to hold onto Terry.

Oh, wow! That is pretty down. Terry couldn’t put a shot up last year and had trouble handling the ball too. Much rather bank on the stellar defender finding a groove on offense as opposed to the short armed, short guy who is not all that quick figure out a role in the NBA.

(08-04-2021, 01:19 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]It has been really tough to keep up with the board the last few days.  I did see the Dragic Discount repaid by the Dallas MLE post and liked the idea.

I notice that the agent for Boucher is the same as the agent for Burke and WCS.  One way I might give up more of our youth might be to do something involving Boucher, but I’d prefer the ability to extend him now.  Question, Boucher’s guarantee date is 8/8.  Before that date, can he be traded with zero salary counting (like Moses apparently was)?

My thought is you do the Powell/Green/Terry for Goran deal with non-guaranteed Boucher coming also.  Then, you cut him and sign him with the MLE.  Is there something about Boucher’s non-guarantee that is different than the way you characterized the Moses deal the other day?

Thanks for the kind words.

"Is there something about Boucher’s non-guarantee that is different than the way you characterized the Moses deal the other day?"...Not sure what you are asking/referencing. Please be more specific.

Boucher could be acquired using 7.02M of the TPE, if the teams so desire.
If you trade for Boucher, because you like him, waiving him to be a UFA makes no sense.
There's no way to extend him.