(01-28-2022, 09:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting that there isn’t more board outrage about Luka not starting the AS Game.
I mean objectively he didn't deserve it this year over Ja and Steph. I hope this wakes him up a bit and shows him all the accolades he's won so far aren't just given.
I'm very curious how All-NBA shakes out.
(01-28-2022, 11:05 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I mean objectively he didn't deserve it this year over Ja and Steph. I hope this wakes him up a bit and shows him all the accolades he's won so far aren't just given.
I'm very curious how All-NBA shakes out.
Over Steph not, but over Ja yes this can be debated, Luka was playing the game on completely different level than Ja in their direct matchups, and won both times. Luka has lead Dallas to about same record as Memphis.
(01-28-2022, 09:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting that there isn’t more board outrage about Luka not starting the AS Game.
As stated:
1. He didnt deserve it.
2. I like that this board looks to be occupied with rational people who love basketball in general.Personally I watch and like other teams and players too.
(01-28-2022, 11:12 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Over Steph not, but over Ja yes this can be debated, Luka was playing the game on completely different level than Ja in their direct matchups, and won both times. Luka has lead Dallas to about same record as Memphis.
That's an interesting view. Ja outplayed Luka the entirety of October, November, and December. Only now in January has Luka returned to Luka levels.
Does a good 3 weeks count over the first 2 months for all-star award even if the records are similar? I personally don't think so.
Luka is without a doubt a better player than Ja. But one of my favorite sayings when I used to play was "hard work beats talent if talent don't work hard."
Agree Luka doesn't deserve to start and also think Mavs fans are conditioned to accept it because Dirk.
Morant is the type of player most fans want to watch in an All Star context. Big dunks & arial feats of amazement.
Luka is the type of player most GMs want to build around. I'm good with that.
(01-28-2022, 09:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting that there isn’t more board outrage about Luka not starting the AS Game.
Meh. Any All-Star game that includes Wiggins in the starting lineup isn't serious enough to deserve my outrage. At this point I'm more in the camp of ignoring the All-Star game altogether and lobbying to have any contract bonuses tied to it permanently banned. It's clearly detached from objective talent.
(01-27-2022, 09:23 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]KL, c'mon man. Burke has scored a total of 14 points in 7 games during this entire month. He's shooting 27% from the field and an even worse 20% from 3. He had a mediocre stretch in December putting up 8ppg on 43/31/92, but other than that Burke hasn't shown anything that he deserves an NBA roster spot.
So, it seems obvious to me, but
someone has to be the third PG who doesn't regularly play. Would you rather that be a kid? Maybe, but the Mavs have Burke, and literally every time he has come in this season (last season, not so much) I've been pretty pleased with his game. As long as the vet is
content with his role enough not to cause issues in the locker room, there are actually some advantages to having him instead of a kid. It's really no different than keeping Boban on the roster. Burke has played more than him lately, right?
In fact, I think Burke
could be a rotation player if a big trade went down and the Mavs needed him for a 10-15 minute role. If Brunson is still here past the TDL and summer, then sure, Burke and his money are probably a waste, but as we're discussing nonstop, we just don't know if that will be the case.
I confidently stand by my take - I would MUCH rather have Burke here right now than DSJ. MUCH. If/when they extend Brunson, I probably change that stance, but even then the "kid" I'd want will be someone with loads less baggage here than DSJ.
Basically, just don't want DSJ.
(01-27-2022, 09:56 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Trey’s upside is he might be a third-string-quality PG.
Dennis’s upside is he might turn into a legit rotation piece, possibly even a sixth man or starter.
I disagree with both statements.
(01-28-2022, 09:13 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting that there isn’t more board outrage about Luka not starting the AS Game.
Coming in out of shape, a rough start to the season, injuries...it's hard to argue. Ja and Steph have been great and their teams are higher seeds.
(01-28-2022, 11:25 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]...
Luka is without a doubt a better player than Ja. But one of my favorite sayings when I used to play was "hard work beats talent if talent don't work hard."
Hold on a second. Let's not bury the lead. SH had a bball career!
Need more info!
I'm surprised more isn't made of LBJ being a starter. I know we're used to that being the case, but from the standpoint of being worthy? I think there are others who deserve that credit this year. Wiggins is just because of the ridiculousness of it all and why I will boycott this year's festivities and not lose sleep whatsoever over it.
(01-28-2022, 11:21 AM)bodhisattva Wrote: [ -> ]As stated:
1. He didnt deserve it.
2. I like that this board looks to be occupied with rational people who love basketball in general.Personally I watch and like other teams and players too.
I disagree with #1. There is no other player in the league averaging 25/9/9 than Luka. He may not have been up to his lofty standards, but for an All Star selection,
you aren't competing against a former version of yourself.
There is so much talk about the team success and I totally agree. I think that the only argument should be between Booker and Luka, Ja isn't in the equation and he's only there because he dunks big with his awesome
PHX is 3-2 without Booker.
MEM is 5-4 without Ja.
DAL is 6-9 without Luka.
There's your TEAM difference that everyone uses for the "reason" that this INDIVIDUAL award should go Ja over Luka.
Luka leads his team in..
Minutes per game
Points per game
Rebounds per game
Assists per game
Steals per game (tied with Doe-Doe)
Booker leads in PPG only and Morant leads in MPG, PPG and APG and we aren't talking about a cellar dweller, but Dallas is 5th headed for 4th, so this ain't Mitch Richmond doing everything for a team that doesn't matter. It's an individual award, so what the individual does should matter more and the less of a difference in standings from the teams of the players in question, the less the record of the team should matter.
Luka is 3-1 H2H over Ja.
Booker is 3-0 H2H over Luka.
Ja and Booker are 1-1 so far.
He'll be an All Star for sure. I honestly would have a far less problem if Booker were starting over Luka, because Booker deserves it more than Ja, because their stats are basically the same and Phx is #1 in the West, but that's still a slim thing and to say that Luka doesn't deserve it, is really buying into the "fat" narrative and ignoring him playing hurt and STILL putting up stats on a team that is far weaker than the other guys in question without him. The only team that's worse without their guy is Steph Curry and NO WAY should Luka be starting over Steph, but with Booker and Ja...yeah, there's plenty of room to make that argument without calling anyone a homer.
If anything, there were 3 guys that deserved to be in the conversation...and the last one of the 3 that should have gotten it got it, imho.
(01-28-2022, 03:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]PHX is 3-2 without Booker.
MEM is 5-4 without Ja.
DAL is 6-9 without Luka.
Info from Bleacher report @"omahen" linked is not correct?
"Both have missed around the same amount of time due to injuries (Doncic has missed 15 games; Morant has missed 13), and the Mavs are 6-9 without Doncic while the Grizzlies are 11-2 without Morant"
(01-28-2022, 11:25 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]That's an interesting view. Ja outplayed Luka the entirety of October, November, and December. Only now in January has Luka returned to Luka levels.
Does a good 3 weeks count over the first 2 months for all-star award even if the records are similar? I personally don't think so.
Luka is without a doubt a better player than Ja. But one of my favorite sayings when I used to play was "hard work beats talent if talent don't work hard."
I am not convinced Ja had better October-December - Luka was injured for a long stretch and Luka has better overall stats as a player., contributing to more facets of the game. Given how NBA is set up, January is more important than earlier months and being at your best just prior to playoffs counts more. I can see the point of chosing Ja over Luka, it can be debated, and especially as its a popularity contest, Ja is way more athletic and flashy, while Luka is all about bbIQ and skill, although Ja has major skills as well, but fans like to see dunks. The media likes to make something more of Lukas injury than it was, like as some fans do. But Luka is having a fantastic season. He showed, when it mattered in January, he is a level better player than Ja, Ja just couldn't play at that level of Luka. I agree Steph is a better player, and Luka needs to win championships to compare to him.
P.S. Regarding Booker, this is different. They have the top record, and deserve their best player as starter. I think given NBA is positionless more and more, I would like to see Steph, Luka and Booker. I see no business there for Ja and Wiggins, they are not the level of Steph, Luka and Booker.
I am fine with Ja starting the all star game. He has been fantastic and Memphis has been one of the better stories of the season. Lets reward them. We will see what happens at the end of the year though.
Plus, while a lot of players play 80 % in all star games it looks like Luka goes 50%. Ha. It looks like he hasn't even stretched when he gets on the court.
(01-28-2022, 03:10 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]But is Ja really better?
For the League marketing big time better atm.
ASG is BB pop contest.
A LD's free week of rest/shooting training would help mavs muchos better than posing in Cleveland.
He's not the most popular player at the moment in the league, he probably wouldn't be missed.
But coaches will kill my dream for sure...
(01-28-2022, 02:38 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Hold on a second. Let's not bury the lead. SH had a bball career!
Need more info!
Nothing professional! Played a lot in high school and had a couple of offers for college. I turned what little offers I had down to pursue medicine (that I'm currently in the midst of!). I figured I had a better chance at being involved with the NBA through medicine than as a player so I went that route.
But that saying was one of my coaches favorite to chant while we ran seventeens, so it's pretty much seared into my brain.
(01-28-2022, 03:10 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]But is Ja really better?
(01-28-2022, 11:25 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Luka is without a doubt a better player than Ja. But one of my favorite sayings when I used to play was "hard work beats talent if talent don't work hard."
No.
Ja is not a better player than Luka. But he has performed better than Luka for the first couple of months. And again this has to go with our expectations. Luka's excellence has raised our expectations, perhaps to an unreasonable level. He hasn't reached those this year, thus it looks like he's underperforming (all the while putting up 25/9/9). Further, Luka was the favorite for MVP this year. Thats the level the media and most fans expected Luka to play at. He did not for various reasons.
I have no doubt Luka is going to continue to exceed Morant in every category, and I am actually glad he got snubbed because like others have said hopefully this lights his competitive fire for the rest of the regular season.
Also starters don't matter anymore since the NBA keeps doing this inane schoolyard captain nonsense. Luka will almost assuredly be an all-star anyways. That's why I'm not pressed.
(01-28-2022, 03:38 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]If anything, there were 3 guys that deserved to be in the conversation...and the last one of the 3 that should have gotten it got it, imho.
Technically correct, and I hear you and I agree. But as we both know, there is also a narrative of Ja breakout year, dude is box office, higher than expected, superstar with one leg already etc. If you were a Memphis fan how pissed would you be if he was not a starter?
Sure, if you look just numbers, he doesnt deserve it, but cmoon...
Anyway, I think we agree, Luka is a better player, and this doesnt matter one bit. If he wouldnt make an all star now, than I would be pissed, but I dont mind JA starting ahead of him. I like JA, hoping for a long career.
Besides, how good would it be to face Grizzlies in playoffs. I believe its a good thing in the long term.