(02-14-2022, 11:30 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Ok, so this might move the needle for me. What did he say, and where did he say it? Was the entire deal laid out?
I think he said it in one of the podcasts and it was reported here. I also posted an article on the board a couple of days ago having same Fisher quote
(02-14-2022, 11:30 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, at the root of all this is a fact, right? Not an opinion? You can fairly say that we don't know enough now (and might never know enough) to definitively reach that fact, but there's a fact there to discover.
This could be incorrect, because this place has been a whirlwind for the past 2-3 days and I might've missed something, but it seems to me like one, vague comment from KOC (brought here by a poster who goes out of his way to make fun of him and discredit him about everything else, no less) is the only source of this idea that Toronto somehow wanted to PAY a 1st rounder to Dallas for the privilege of eating the Porzingis contract. Have we heard/ready this from anybody else? I'm genuinely asking.
Personally, I have been shocked since seeing that pop up, because it doesn't make sense. Maybe it's true, but it's clear to me that the pieces missing from that rumor would have a real impact on what we'd ultimately think about it. KP is not worth a 1st, period. We know TOR thought Dragic was worth something, as evidenced by the non-stop negotiating through the media we've seen all season, since FA last summer. What was it that they wanted from Dallas that had them negotiating to add a first? Brunson? DFS? Both? We just don't know.
Or, did that one KOC line get it backwards? That's the first thing I thought of, actually.
Since then, it seems like more and more people at least as reliable as KOC and probably more are making it a point to contradict the specific notion that there was a deal for Dallas to get a 1st out of TOR for Porzingis that they turned down.
Are we all predisposed to connect dots in a way that makes more sense to us? ABSOLUTELY! But, does one of those scenarios make more sense objectively than the other? Would YOU pay a 1st for Porzingis (while simultaneously offering major financial relief to his old team)? I wouldn't.
Ok, so this might move the needle for me. What did he say, and where did he say it? Was the entire deal laid out?
The first time I read anything about this deal being a recent thing is from the article Dan summarized today (well, that's when I read his summary at least). Otherwise, I've been remembering reports all the way back to last TDL about Tor and Was monitoring the KP situation in Dal. That, put together with the original report tells me this negotiation has
possibly been going on for the entirety of Nico's tenure (and probably before that), with the deal looking differently as the discussions go on.
I don't know if there was any point in time that a deal
could have been struck from Nico's hire to now, but it seems to me, if they were discussing it, there would have been a point where one side said yes and the other side said let's wait. Seeing what they got for him now, I wonder if Nico/Cuban was ever the hold up on that.
Would have to have WAY more info to know that, and there's no way I would ever think that much info would come out. So here we are, I can only react to the info given at the time it's given (but should go back to my wait and see approach, since all this stuff has done is make assumers out of all involved).
Another thing, I just want more talent on this team, that's it in a nutshell. This trade is a step back in that department as I see it and esp. at the time of the trade. I know there's a decent possibility that who we got fits better than the talent we lost, we're just so freakin talent deficient and it feels like the few of us tooting that horn are not all that supported in the thought.
(02-14-2022, 12:23 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Another thing, I just want more talent on this team, that's it in a nutshell. This trade is a step back in that department as I see it and esp. at the time of the trade. I know there's a decent possibility that who we got fits better than the talent we lost, we're just so freakin talent deficient and it feels like the few of us tooting that horn are not all that supported in the thought.
I agree with this. I'm very much on the side of KP wasn't all that talented to begin with so while we didn't necessarily enhance our talent level, I don't think we took a huge step back and are in a better place to add talent moving forward.
(02-14-2022, 12:23 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Another thing, I just want more talent on this team, that's it in a nutshell. This trade is a step back in that department as I see it and esp. at the time of the trade. I know there's a decent possibility that who we got fits better than the talent we lost, we're just so freakin talent deficient and it feels like the few of us tooting that horn are not all that supported in the thought
And there's where the holy war began.
I just can't view KP as "talent" anymore. I even tried to do that this season. I tried hard.
(02-14-2022, 11:56 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Otherwise, I've been remembering reports all the way back to last TDL about Tor and Was monitoring the KP situation in Dal.
There were absolutely reports about WAS having interest in KP a year ago.
This is the only thing I have seen about TOR having long term interest:
https://twitter.com/AzazNYK/status/1491808425638088704
The interest with a KP trade with TOR was mostly us fans wanting to swap him for Siakam when Siakam was benched a year ago and disgruntled.
(02-14-2022, 12:30 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]I agree with this. I'm very much on the side of KP wasn't all that talented to begin with so while we didn't necessarily enhance our talent level, I don't think we took a huge step back and are in a better place to add talent moving forward.
I think this ignores me saying "esp. at the time of the trade". These guys are not really much to tout, esp if they don't do better than they have so far this season. When KP played, his talent alone had better gravity on the court. He wasn't utilized to materialize that gravity very much seemingly due to his prima dona characteristics, but that isn't about talent, that's about character. Injury isn't about talent either.
Also, we can disagree about the talent KP has, needing more talent even with KP on the team was a necessity.
(02-14-2022, 12:53 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]When KP played, his talent alone had better gravity on the court.
I honestly am not sure KP has been a very effective spacer (had much court-gravity) recently. I regularly saw teams leaving him to help on Luka. They didn't seem to be very concerned about KP.
My take on the new front office is they are really deliberate to make a decision, but once the decision is made they move swiftly. I haven't decided if this is a good or bad thing yet. It can be both. For instance, a super small thing that bugs me is they have had a open two way spot for a couple of months. Is there a reason for this? Or is it being indecisive or worse yet, don't care about it?
We saw them deliberate on Nate Hinton, Ty Terry, The two way guy they released, WCS and several other moves. They seem to take longer to make a decision on most but moved quickly once they did make a decision.
I would be curious how Nico is keeping up to date on the draft. Has he been to any live games? Are they paying any attention to the college game as all? Just curious.
(02-14-2022, 12:31 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]There were absolutely reports about WAS having interest in KP a year ago.
This is the only thing I have seen about TOR having long term interest:
https://twitter.com/AzazNYK/status/1491808425638088704
The interest with a KP trade with TOR was mostly us fans wanting to swap him for Siakam when Siakam was benched a year ago and disgruntled.
This tweet said Tor has had interest for a while. How long is a while? I'm not going to go back and look at all the tweets around last TDL and before to find what I'm talking about. You can disagree with what I remember, that's fine, I'll leave it at that.
(02-14-2022, 12:59 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly am not sure KP has been a very effective spacer (had much court-gravity) recently. I regularly saw teams leaving him to help on Luka. They didn't seem to be very concerned about KP.
And he scored 20 ppg on them.
(02-14-2022, 01:03 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]This tweet said Tor has had interest for a while. How long is a while? I'm not going to go back and look at all the tweets around last TDL and before to find what I'm talking about. You can disagree with what I remember, that's fine, I'll leave it at that.
I'm actually not disagreeing with you. I'm just adding what I remember, which is a recent tweet about TOR's interest for awhile. I don't have a memory of TOR having interest a year ago, but my memory is not perfect. And I 100% affirm your memory about WAS having on-going interest in KP.
(02-14-2022, 01:02 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]For instance, a super small thing that bugs me is they have had a open two way spot for a couple of months. Is there a reason for this?
They apparently didn't have a desire (or suitable player, in their estimation) to fill that spot, when it opened up.
But it's not an ongoing decision, as it sounds like you are making it. They only had a short window of opportunity to sign someone. Then the deadline passed, after which (Jan 15) the rules prevent them from signing any other 2-way player.
(02-14-2022, 11:13 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]They apparently didn't have a desire (or suitable player, in their estimation) to fill that spot, when it opened up.
But it's not an ongoing decision, as it sounds like you are making it. They only had a short window of opportunity to sign someone. Then the deadline passed, after which (Jan 15) the rules prevent them from signing any other 2-way player.
Thanks. I guess I will cool it on their inaction then. I just don't understand why they didn't fill it. Seems lazy.
(02-15-2022, 07:48 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Thanks. I guess I will cool it on their inaction then. I just don't understand why they didn't fill it. Seems lazy.
It could have been exactly that. Or maybe they didn't know who to get. Or maybe players were saying 'no' in hopes the covid wave would open regular spots somewhere else. Or ....?
We've certainly see suckiness in the Mavs' GL-level history, and whatever the reason, this is clearly the same sort of behavior. I'm with you that it's beyond disappointing to see the same ole same ole.