(12-14-2021, 06:24 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Is it bad that I'm actually interested in Kyrie for this team?
Not for KP of course, but THJ+Powell+Picks? Kyrie radically transforms this team, when he isn't going AWOL. Only has 1 more year left so we don't even have to fully commit to him if he's bat shit crazy.
If?
Repeat after me: No First Round Picks In Trades
I think you take Irving the player over KP 100/100 times. But I can think of few players I'd hate putting into a locker room with Luka more, tbh.
(12-14-2021, 06:24 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Is it bad that I'm actually interested in Kyrie for this team?
Not for KP of course, but THJ+Powell+Picks? Kyrie radically transforms this team, when he isn't going AWOL. Only has 1 more year left so we don't even have to fully commit to him if he's bat shit crazy.
I mentioned last week but how about a three team trade with Kyrie, Ben Simmons and Dallas? I would put the odds somewhere close to 0 and Dallas probably doesn't have the assets anyway. But I remember prior to the start of the season, Zach Lowe was saying if the Nets moved Kyrie they would probably lean to the glue guy types vs the third star. He was adamant though that he did not expect them to move Kyrie though.
So could something work out where the Nets got Bullock, DFS, Maxi (maybe two of the three) plus salary and maybe a pick? Philly gets Kyrie. I think that would be the classic Philly move. Get the highest rated player out there. Philly then looks ready to role with Kyrie playing the Harden role but with one of the top two centers in the league. Dallas gets Ben Simmons.
Again, I would put the odds at 0 percent, but just something that stuck with me.
Interesting take and proposal. I like it.
(12-14-2021, 06:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think you take Irving the player over KP 100/100 times. But I can think of few players I'd hate putting into a locker room with Luka more, tbh.
I don't think Kyrie would be a bad locker room guy, especially with Rick gone. I know he had issues in Boston but he's the one that gave the PG keys to Harden willingly when that trade went down.
(12-14-2021, 06:50 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Kyrie would be a bad locker room guy, especially with Rick gone. I know he had issues in Boston but he's the one that gave the PG keys to Harden willingly when that trade went down.
and he just decides to go AWOL at times and he talks poorly about teammates in the media and he seems completely crazy
Repeat After Me: No DFS in any trades.
(12-14-2021, 06:52 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]and he just decides to go AWOL at times and he talks poorly about teammates in the media and he seems completely crazy
I'm not advocating for the trade. Going AWOL is a concern as is his vaccination status. I'm wouldn't be worried about the rest.
(12-14-2021, 06:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I think you take Irving the player over KP 100/100 times. But I can think of few players I'd hate putting into a locker room with Luka more, tbh.
This is mainly my thought as well.
BUT this team is bereft of talent. Kyrie would be one quick way of getting a HOF caliber 2-guard next to Luka and he can be theoretically had for role players since no team would ever trade a star for him.
All of our role players are expendable for a star. Sure Brunson/DFS/Kleber are the kind of guys you want on your team, but Kyrie Irving the player is one of the best scoring guards of all time. Luka/Kyrie/KP is an instant contender, and sort of follows the same building strategy that saw Lebron win his 3 championships with the Heat/Cavs.
All of this assumes Kyrie still wants to play basketball. If we could get 50 games out of Kyrie+all playoff games I think it's a no brainer.
(12-14-2021, 06:38 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]I mentioned last week but how about a three team trade with Kyrie, Ben Simmons and Dallas? I would put the odds somewhere close to 0 and Dallas probably doesn't have the assets anyway. But I remember prior to the start of the season, Zach Lowe was saying if the Nets moved Kyrie they would probably lean to the glue guy types vs the third star. He was adamant though that he did not expect them to move Kyrie though.
So could something work out where the Nets got Bullock, DFS, Maxi (maybe two of the three) plus salary and maybe a pick? Philly gets Kyrie. I think that would be the classic Philly move. Get the highest rated player out there. Philly then looks ready to role with Kyrie playing the Harden role but with one of the top two centers in the league. Dallas gets Ben Simmons.
Again, I would put the odds at 0 percent, but just something that stuck with me.
Given that Philadelphia just instituted a mandatory vaccine mandate for all indoor dining (which the stadium the Sixers play in qualifies), that means Kyrie would have to be vaccinated to play for Philly. Thus killing any deal.
So I think that effectively rules out any Simmons (who is also not vaccinated and won't be able to play in BRK) for Kyrie deals.
DFS is a deal breaker.
If it was a two way swap and KP and Kyrie are the principles, maybe you could return additional value. Kyrie's not playing and the Nets could use a big with interior defense.
(12-14-2021, 06:24 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Is it bad that I'm actually interested in Kyrie for this team?
Not for KP of course, but THJ+Powell+Picks? Kyrie radically transforms this team, when he isn't going AWOL. Only has 1 more year left so we don't even have to fully commit to him if he's bat shit crazy.
Any issues I'd have with adding Kyrie have nothing to do with on the court. He'd be a great fit next to Luka. We saw how well he fit next to Harden last season when that team was at full strength. The guy was able to even still get his own next to LeBron. Any issues I would have with adding World B Flat would be about the locker room
(12-14-2021, 09:59 PM)MrGoat Wrote: [ -> ]Any issues I'd have with adding Kyrie have nothing to do with on the court. We saw how well he fit next to Harden last season when that team was at full strength. The guy was able to even still get his own next to LeBron
Absolutely, on-court he'd instantly elevate the team almost as much as drafting Luka, imo. He could definitely exist with Luka. It would be the same fit they've been chasing with Kemba Walker, Kyle Lowry and others...only 1,000x better.
But his personality is just not something I'd be comfortable with as the owner of any team, let alone one that's trying to build around and hold onto a 22-year-old global phenom.
Wow...I cant believe this board.
All the screaming for a secondary scorer for 2 years now. Brunson is really good...but Kyrie?!
Kyrie is a proven BALLER. Proven creator with an assassins' shot. Pretty much exactly what you want. And...if he can be had for peanuts just to eat his salary...sign me up.
Now this obviously is only a good deal if he wants to be here and because we are struggling franchise that needs a booster shot. IMO, Kyrie would give us a HUGE booster.
I would welcome his talent even if it meant watching him spread talcum powder around the perimeter of the court every night to keep evil spirits honest.
(12-14-2021, 10:10 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]Wow...I cant believe this board.
All the screaming for a secondary scorer for 2 years now. Brunson is really good...but Kyrie?!
Kyrie is a proven BALLER. Proven creator with an assassins' shot. Pretty much exactly what you want. And...if he can be had for peanuts just to eat his salary...sign me up.
Now this obviously is only a good deal if he wants to be here and because we are struggling franchise that needs a booster shot. IMO, Kyrie would give us a HUGE booster.
I would welcome his talent even if it meant watching him spread talcum powder around the perimeter of the court every night to keep evil spirits honest.
Kyrie aside, for as bad as the MBT have been with securing talent, this board tends to get awfully picky with who they want.
(12-14-2021, 10:16 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Kyrie aside, for as bad as the MBT have been with securing talent, this board tends to get awfully picky with who they want.
There's some truth to this, and I'm as guilty as anyone. But, two things:
1) I still think they're a lot closer than you do. I'm nowhere remotely close to a "blow it up" frame of mind, unless you consider ending the hellish Porzingis experiment a blow up. So, if I'm in their shoes I'm still trying to make
this team work, and that calls for pickiness in terms of fit, I think.
2) Irving is an
extreme case. Ben Simmons has had problems with his team just as newsworthy as Irving's but, idk...I feel like I understand where he's coming from, even if I don't agree with how he's handling himself. Kyrie Irving is so batshit insane that it scares me. I don't blame others for looking past those things, because hey, they might be right to do so. The dude is a top 10 player in the NBA, imo. But for me, it's all just too
scary.
(12-14-2021, 10:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]There's some truth to this, and I'm as guilty as anyone. But, two things:
1) I still think they're a lot closer than you do. I'm nowhere remotely close to a "blow it up" frame of mind, unless you consider ending the hellish Porzingis experiment a blow up. So, if I'm in their shoes I'm still trying to make this team work, and that calls for pickiness in terms of fit, I think.
2) Irving is an extreme case. Ben Simmons has had problems with his team just as newsworthy as Irving's but, idk...I feel like I understand where he's coming from, even if I don't agree with how he's handling himself. Kyrie Irving is so batshit insane that it scares me. I don't blame others for looking past those things, because hey, they might be right to do so. The dude is a top 10 player in the NBA, imo. But for me, it's all just too scary.
It depends on the definition of BLOW IT UP...but I am saddened to read such a good poster on this forum advocate for keeping a squad full of flawed players together even longer.
I dont think I am out of line by saying that most posters on this board agree that we are stacked with one trick ponies. And...that one trick doesnt seem to be paying off lately.
Im not saying blow it up...but we need a couple new starters, imo. Starters that are currently not on this team.
(12-14-2021, 10:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]There's some truth to this, and I'm as guilty as anyone. But, two things:
1) I still think they're a lot closer than you do. I'm nowhere remotely close to a "blow it up" frame of mind, unless you consider ending the hellish Porzingis experiment a blow up. So, if I'm in their shoes I'm still trying to make this team work, and that calls for pickiness in terms of fit, I think.
2) Irving is an extreme case. Ben Simmons has had problems with his team just as newsworthy as Irving's but, idk...I feel like I understand where he's coming from, even if I don't agree with how he's handling himself. Kyrie Irving is so batshit insane that it scares me. I don't blame others for looking past those things, because hey, they might be right to do so. The dude is a top 10 player in the NBA, imo. But for me, it's all just too scary.
But trading KP *is* "blowing it up."
There are three players whom I think the Mavs have to get out from under their salary - KP, THJ, and Powell. But KP and THJ are part of the current core, for darn sure. I'm not in favor of keeping KP, but I think that THJ and Powell are actually the greater priorities. KP, if he has any value, is the player who has the most possibility of bringing back something of real value.
The problem with this roster is that, aside from Luka's big deal starting next year, the highly-paid players are not part of the future. I think that there are tons of promising players on reasonable deals who probably are part of future - I'd say Brunson if his salary wasn't about to detonate, but more specifically DFS, Maxi, Smokes, Green, Moses Brown. We've even seen some flashes from Sterling Brown, and don't forget Omoruyi, who I think might become something. Bullock might arguably be salvageable. WCS is not a big deal in the long run because we can let him walk this summer. But it's that we have money tied up in a guy in THJ who isn't getting the job done, Powell, who is completely useless aside from towel-waving and community service, and KP, whose greatest issues are (given his improvement this year) his salary, his health, and that he's still too hard to build around.
We need difference makers and starters. I'm not sure it's going to be possible to do that on-court with trades, which means this is already at least something of a lost year (we aren't going to be able to field a team capable of making the 2nd round this year). I think there's going to have to be some creativity with clearing room for next summer and/or the summer after, with the draft, and with the internal development of our promising players.
(12-14-2021, 10:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]There's some truth to this, and I'm as guilty as anyone. But, two things:
1) I still think they're a lot closer than you do. I'm nowhere remotely close to a "blow it up" frame of mind, unless you consider ending the hellish Porzingis experiment a blow up. So, if I'm in their shoes I'm still trying to make this team work, and that calls for pickiness in terms of fit, I think.
2) Irving is an extreme case. Ben Simmons has had problems with his team just as newsworthy as Irving's but, idk...I feel like I understand where he's coming from, even if I don't agree with how he's handling himself. Kyrie Irving is so batshit insane that it scares me. I don't blame others for looking past those things, because hey, they might be right to do so. The dude is a top 10 player in the NBA, imo. But for me, it's all just too scary.
As far as #1 is concerned, I hope we see this team without Luka a few more games, particularly against better defenses. The Lakers are what I'd consider equal footing to the Mavs (full strength vs full strength) but Luka would have to miss the next five to see the likes of the Bucks and Jazz. It's hard to read anything definitive from playing the Thunder (tanking) or the Hornets (worst or 2nd worst defense in the league and missing their best player) but the performance against the Hornets is a little worrying from a big picture standpoint. The rag tag components seemed to function better without Luka running the offense and KP was great. Some of KP's greatest games as a Mav have come with Luka hurt. I'm just starting to think KP needs to be Batman or is completely the wrong Robin for Luka. I think they've co-existed better this year, but it just feels like neither can be at their best when playing with one another. That's not a knock on Luka and that's not a knock on KP, it just is what it is. The knock on Luka and a Luka run offense would be the performance of everyone else. The ball just moved better against the hornets than what we typically see. To be fair, I do think we've seen that type of ball movement from Luka in one of our earlier wins this season but it seems to be more the exception than the rule. I'd definitely like to see a larger sample size.
I'm still out on KP. Injuries aside, I think he's played really well this year and there are a lot of things about his game that I just don't like. For his size he just plays really small a lot of the time. Watching him try to gain ground while backing smaller defenders, he'll often play small around the rim and get easily contested by much smaller defenders, playing with a bit too much finesse in the paint instead of just attempting a dunk, inability to create quality looks for himself late in the shot clock, the quick trigger from deep in 3PT land...it's just all too much. Even more frustrating when you see him do the exact opposite and wonder why he doesn't do those things consistently.
As far as Kyrie is concerned I don't think you could get him for our bits and pieces (I also doubt you could get him for KP) but if you could and if you really think the roster is close, he'd elevate the potential of the team if he played. We might need to be in the extreme case mode to improve the roster, cupboard is pretty bare.
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