(10-21-2021, 07:10 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Looking back on it, it was kind of like I was this missile to go in there and create the change and unlock some boulders that couldn't be moved before.
Interesting. I could honestly see this being quite true.
A few more tidbits from Bob's interview --
There was an organization chart on paper, but in practice, everything came down to Cuban making decisions. Mark was the GM, in practice.
Donnie was stuck in 2012, not understanding changes in basketball since then.
Bob and Carlisle got on well. He did not dictate lineups or rotations to Rick. Rick took some of his suggestions, didn't take others. Rick probably consulted Cuban on those matters, as well.
Never talked to players unless Rick particularly asked him to.
Luka was never a diva, didn't try to wield his power.
Bob did not decide who played and who didn't, or whom to trade. If players believed he did, they were misinformed.
Clippers series was particularly difficult when they went small. The Mavs never defended well against teams that went small. Stands behind his recommendation to use Kawhi's defensive assignment (KP) as a spacer.
Did not realize he was going to be running the 2020 draft until the time came. Donnie was very upset he was there. Donnie wasn't in the room when it came time to pick, and no one said that they wanted Saddiq Bey or anyone else.
Acknowledges that his personality is polarizing.
Knew Cato's article was coming, but didn't care because he had already decided he wanted out. Donnie was not a source, but thinks whoever was probably had input from Donnie.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Mavericks/comments/qcnuwh/espn_daily_podcast_interview_with_haralabob/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
Super fascinating.
It's like the threesome of Mark/Donnie/RC had become so dysfunctional and enmeshed that they needed a catalyst to break them up.
(10-21-2021, 08:36 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]no one said that they wanted Saddiq Bey or anyone else.
I wish I was stunned at that news.
(10-21-2021, 07:00 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/3244...hool-drama
Hmmm, he is going after Donnie this time unlike his twitter rant, although there is little to dislike Donnie from what he said (although other quote from
[b]mavsluvr[/b]
say he was outdated)
RC seems like the only guy with the brain who didn't care about all the drama and was just about doing the right job.
Kind of confirms that Cuban is the root of the problem, which doesn't sound good for the future unless he learned his lesson
Hearing from Bob is really interesting but it also isn't too surprising. I mean, it was shocking when it all went down in real time, but the detail that Bob adds now fits what we saw happen.
(10-21-2021, 09:23 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Hmmm, he is going after Donnie this time unlike his twitter rant, although there is little to dislike Donnie from what he said (although other quote from [b]mavsluvr[/b] say he was outdated)
RC seems like the only guy with the brain who didn't care about all the drama and was just about doing the right job.
Kind of confirms that Cuban is the root of the problem, which doesn't sound good for the future unless he learned his lesson
Bob thought the front office was not very good because Donnie did not want strong people around who could threaten him. Suggested that the Gersson Rosas deal cratered so quickly because Donnie felt threatened. Cites as "proof" that the GM's office was not good/well-regarded -- no front office executives were ever hired for high-profile positions in other teams. Suggested that this was somewhat characteristic of the organization in general.
Unsurprisingly, Bob thought he was scapegoated for a number of problems that were actually organizational in nature.
Takeaways:
1. Bob sounds like the arrogant social misfit he’s reported to be. Didn’t even care what happened because he had already decided he wanted out. Which apparently happened right after he started getting competitive with Donnie because Donnie had acted, subtly, like he wanted Bob gone. Right.
2. Bob’s data—not Bob—was dictating lineups to Carlisle. Probably because Carlisle is a genius and Bob’s data was awesome. Uh huh. Sure.
3. Donnie, indirectly it seems, was burning bridges on his way out, helping Cato with his article and torching his chances to GM elsewhere in the NBA.
Is anyone surprised to see another soap-opera attack on Mavs management rather than basketball analysis on ESPN? I’m ready to quit clicking their links.
(10-21-2021, 10:00 AM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]3. Donnie, indirectly it seems, was burning bridges on his way out, helping Cato with his article and torching his chances to GM elsewhere in the NBA.
Maybe he just want's to hang out in Hawaii and day drink with Dad.
(10-21-2021, 10:00 AM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Takeaways:
1. Bob sounds like the arrogant social misfit he’s reported to be. Didn’t even care what happened because he had already decided he wanted out. Which apparently happened right after he started getting competitive with Donnie because Donnie had acted, subtly, like he wanted Bob gone. Right.
2. Bob’s data—not Bob—was dictating lineups to Carlisle. Probably because Carlisle is a genius and Bob’s data was awesome. Uh huh. Sure.
3. Donnie, indirectly it seems, was burning bridges on his way out, helping Cato with his article and torching his chances to GM elsewhere in the NBA.
Is anyone surprised to see another soap-opera attack on Mavs management rather than basketball analysis on ESPN? I’m ready to quit clicking their links.
I get your frustration, but I think I have a little different take. As a preface, I don't have a dog in this hunt -- just trying to convey a sense of what is being reported.
Regarding your comments --
1. Bob has admitted his abrasive personality isn't for everyone. Did say that he tried to fit in at first, until Cuban made it clear that was exactly what Cuban didn't want him to do. Said Cuban knew there were deficiencies in the organization, and specifically wanted Bob to call them out.
2. Not sure I understand what you are saying there. Believe his point was that Bob had input, but no one dictated anything to Carlisle except Cuban. [Other sources have suggested that Rick thought he "had" to follow Bob's recommendations absent a clear reason not to. We don't have enough information to judge that one way or another, but that very fact is an indication that there were some organizational problems with communication.]
3. Donnie was not technically a source for Cato, according to Bob. However, Bob thinks that someone with Donnie's blessing chose to execute a "suicide" mission with those leaks and take Bob down with him. To my mind, Bob's one-sided report is just one more piece of information seeming to indicate a certain level of organizational dysfunction.
I am certainly not here to be an apologist for ESPN, but I wouldn't characterize this as an "attack" on Mavs management. Many fans find these front-office issues interesting, and I think they were just reporting Bob's views on the matter. If Donnie would agree to an interview, I'm sure they would be equally happy to relay his side of the situation. I didn't get a sense that ESPN was expressing a view of its own, for or against Cuban. I think it's hard to really fault a news organization for reporting the news.
Of course, I think I understand why you consider this type of article distasteful, and you are certainly well within your rights to stop clicking on those links. In my mind, the continued reporting of this situation isn't just rehashing the past, since it is somewhat of a baseline for determining to what extent these problems are solved by the changes in personnel or whether they still remain.
Consider these three direct quotes as a group:
Quote:"Hey, look, I'm just trying to fit in. I appreciate the opportunity. I don't want to ruffle any feathers"
Quote:"I never actually wanted to be the guy in charge until it became clear that the guy in charge didn't want me around. And then I was like, 'Oh, OK, now it's competitive.'"
Quote:"Plus, I was trying to find a way out of this job to begin with."
In summary, he only wanted to help. He also wanted to be the GM, but it's Donnie's fault. Even though he doesn't really care because he wanted out anyway. *massive eyeroll*
I've said it before and I'll say it again -- The more Voulgaris talks, the more it becomes abundantly clear that Dallas is better off without him. So I don't actually mind articles like this (the shady opening-night timing notwithstanding). Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
(10-21-2021, 08:36 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Did not realize he was going to be running the 2020 draft until the time came. Donnie was very upset he was there. Donnie wasn't in the room when it came time to pick, and no one said that they wanted Saddiq Bey or anyone else.
And that right there shows why Mark Cuban being the head decision maker is a huge red flag.
(10-21-2021, 10:31 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I get your frustration, but I think I have a little different take...
I agree with your post. I find ESPN's new releases fascinating, do not think they are an attack on the Mavs, but instead think that ESPN did a pretty good job with this portion of the story (listening to the podcast right now).
Time passing since Cato's initial story and then new events and information coming along (like this ESPN story and podcast) are not sending me into dispair about Mavs' dysfunction. Instead, the whole thing just makes more sense now. As the story makes more sense it becomes humans doing typical, messy, imperfect human things rather than like high fantasy with good striving against evil.
I have some thoughts brewing, but gotta get through the podcast before I share more.
(10-21-2021, 07:10 AM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]MacMahon could have written something about the opening day on opening day but decides to bring up the past.
Drama sells.
I'm kind of tired of this bs already. Its over. Its obvious there was some incredible dysfunction amongst the Mavs triumvirate. Whether it be RC's grating personality turning off the locker room. Donnie playing office politics. Bob being a distraction.
Everyone's to blame. Doesn't matter anymore. Every one of the people that caused the drama and could be removed has been removed.
McMahon's timing of when he dropped this article left a sour taste in my mouth.
How is Donnie not in the room when the Josh Green pick was made...
"no one spoke up" like ya, who would be speaking up to Bob in that situation if it wasn't Donnie.
McMahon gas lighting the Mavs on opening day is no surprise to me anymore...
(10-21-2021, 10:31 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I get your frustration, but I think I have a little different take. As a preface, I don't have a dog in this hunt -- just trying to convey a sense of what is being reported.
Regarding your comments --
1. Bob has admitted his abrasive personality isn't for everyone. Did say that he tried to fit in at first, until Cuban made it clear that was exactly what Cuban didn't want him to do. Said Cuban knew there were deficiencies in the organization, and specifically wanted Bob to call them out.
2. Not sure I understand what you are saying there. Believe his point was that Bob had input, but no one dictated anything to Carlisle except Cuban. [Other sources have suggested that Rick thought he "had" to follow Bob's recommendations absent a clear reason not to. We don't have enough information to judge that one way or another, but that very fact is an indication that there were some organizational problems with communication.]
3. Donnie was not technically a source for Cato, according to Bob. However, Bob thinks that someone with Donnie's blessing chose to execute a "suicide" mission with those leaks and take Bob down with him. To my mind, Bob's one-sided report is just one more piece of information seeming to indicate a certain level of organizational dysfunction.
I am certainly not here to be an apologist for ESPN, but I wouldn't characterize this as an "attack" on Mavs management. Many fans find these front-office issues interesting, and I think they were just reporting Bob's views on the matter. If Donnie would agree to an interview, I'm sure they would be equally happy to relay his side of the situation. I didn't get a sense that ESPN was expressing a view of its own, for or against Cuban. I think it's hard to really fault a news organization for reporting the news.
Of course, I think I understand why you consider this type of article distasteful, and you are certainly well within your rights to stop clicking on those links. In my mind, the continued reporting of this situation isn't just rehashing the past, since it is somewhat of a baseline for determining to what extent these problems are solved by the changes in personnel or whether they still remain.
You are a reasonable dude, always it seems. Which is saying something on an anonymous discussion board.
And it’s hard to disagree with moderate, reasonable positions. Like your take that my use of the word “attack” seems a bit off.
But I disagree with the general theme of what you’re saying nonetheless. At least as I’m reading it. On opening night, the team with the leading MVP candidate gets a lead article that has nothing to do with the game of basketball or the upcoming season but instead focuses on drama and disfunction in basketball operations. That’s targeting. In football, there’d be a flag and an ejection.
Is the article interesting? Sure. Is it news? Of course. And it’s their job to manufacture clicks. So how can I fault them?
I get it. It’s also news which basketball players are dating Kardashians. And it generates clicks. So whatever. It’s 2021. I can live and let live with all this. But I don’t have to like it.
I also find it remarkable that Bob’s word parsing seems to be given credence in the article and in your post. When Luka asks who is in charge, Rick or Bob, it is not an adequate response to say, “It’s not me, it’s my data.” Neither is it adequate to point to the org chart and say “I’m just a consultant.” Pointing to several recent occasions on which Rick disregarded Bob’s advice (er, Bob’s data’s advice) might be persuasive. But the bald assertion that RC declined “some” suggestions is no denial.
And I don’t blame Bob for this. Plainly its the head coach’s fault when the team’s best player is questioning whether he is really in charge. Or, as was more likely the case, challenging him for being too deferential. I only blame Bob for being a jackass.
And I don’t blame the reporters for publishing this shit. Like Geico, if you’re an internet reporter, it’s what you do. I only blame them for lacking analytical skills and the wherewithal to write an interesting piece that is actually about the game.
For those of you who made it this far, thanks for listening to an old man’s rant.
(10-21-2021, 11:01 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]McMahon's timing of when he dropped this article left a sour taste in my mouth.
This may be a little unfair to McMahon. I'm not sure what we were expecting. That ESPN would drop the article in the middle of the night in the New Zealand media in hopes that no one would notice it? Organizations, as a matter of good business practice, try to present their products in such a way that they will encounter maximum receptivity. We may or may not like the article, but I don't see anything sinister in its timing.
I surmise that comments like these are not really made in the spirit of some thoughtful, even-handed critique. Rather, they probably give vent to a visceral "a pox on all your houses" response. If so, I totally get that, and fire away!
(10-21-2021, 12:03 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]This may be a little unfair to McMahon. I'm not sure what we were expecting. That ESPN would drop the article in the middle of the night in the New Zealand media in hopes that no one would notice it? Organizations, as a matter of good business practice, try to present their products in such a way that they will encounter maximum receptivity. We may or may not like the article, but I don't see anything sinister in its timing.
I surmise that comments like these are not really made in the spirit of some thoughtful, even-handed critique. Rather, they probably give vent to a visceral "a pox on all your houses" response. If so, I totally get that, and fire away!
Unfair? It’s opening day for the Mavs. The lead article on their ESPN page has this headline: “Ex-Mavs exec: Discord like high-school drama.” The second article is a two-day-old season preview for every team in the league. The third feature is a video of Giannis.
Right. Middle of the night in New Zealand was the only alternative to what they did.