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(08-04-2021, 11:40 PM)JamesConway Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/hoopanalysisnet/stat...40772?s=21

Sure, $15 mil - over three years.

(08-04-2021, 11:42 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]He had over 16 Mio in capspace and was brought in for his connections - he got us Bullock - if this goes south it's on him.

You make Mavs2021 look like a sunshine pumper.
The other thing I'm sure Dallas is keeping an eye on (via Duffy) is who the other options are for Toronto to trade Dragic. There's a pretty decent chance that even if Toronto unloads him the receiving team will be open to buying him out. Why pay full price and give assets to Toronto when you can wait for Toronto to pay their own tip to another team to buy him out?
(08-04-2021, 11:42 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Two for two!

Keep 'em coming, my dude!

Ha, thanks!
(08-04-2021, 11:41 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]Trying to see this from Toronto's perspective...

If I'm Toronto and I don't like what Mavs are (potentially) offering in a trade, then are there any other realistic trade partners? Non-contender teams will want a price for absorbing that contract and contending teams would struggle to match salaries without giving up more than Dragic is worth (I think).

So other option would be to keep him, but that goes against player (and agent) wishes and could bite the team in future dealings.

That leaves a buyout which doesn't hurt Toronto and may save the owner a little money.

So if I'm the Mavs then waiting for the buyout seems like the best option if Toronto is asking for assets I don't want to give up on a trade. 

Maybe I'm looking at this too strongly through my fan glasses but I think Mavs are handling this Dragic situation the right way so far.

#TheNicotiator

(08-04-2021, 11:42 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]That's the first time I've heard someone describe KP as their biggest wing, but you're not wrong. Wink

BOOOOO!!!!

I mean that in the most respectful way possible
If Duffy and Dragic are asking for the buy-out and Dragic will not play for the Raptors AND there are no (3rd team) trade options that compensate Toronto in any way… I think Miami needs to be adding the additional assets to make this worth it for Toronto. Make that mob boss Pat Riley pay up for his tampering.
WCS is our tallest playmaker.
(08-05-2021, 12:02 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]WCS is our tallest playmaker.

Sure, but we're not counting guys who make plays for the OTHER team, are we?
@HouseMavericks

Marc Stein on @SpotifyGrnroom “Dallas will not jump into a trade. They are hoping Dragic makes his way into the free agent. They don’t want his $19 million. That could change… no guarantee Dragic ends up in Dallas.”


All Things SLOVENIA
@All_Things_Mavs

Marc Stein does not expect Dallas to jump into the Goran Dragic race as a third team. He says it’s “an open secret” that they would love to add him, but Stein believes it will only happen if it’s via free agency.


------------------------------

1 I believe M Stein has a good read on what's happening from the Mavs end (ie, he has been told x, y, and z and is sharing the gist of it).
2 I don't believe that ends the story, however, as there are two ways to look at this info.

The pessimistic take:
The trade talks are basically dead, and negotiations have ended. Either TOR will waive Dragic, or they won't, after which he might sign with the Mavs using the minimum salary they can offer. He will want his full salary, or almost all of it, if they waive him.

The optimistic take:
Negotiations with Dallas/TOR/Dragic are still very much alive. They have discarded the trade idea, and are now focused on the "buyout" possibility. Cuban won't bail out Duffy/Dragic, MIA, and TOR for that very bloated $19M salary that all of them manufactured to enable a trade. No interest in them getting the benefits, while he ends up being the one to choke that down.

But --- maybe after the others scrape off the excess salary via buyout at a discount, the Mavs are ready to pick up a certain amount of the difference. (I notice that Stein says they don't like Dragic at $19M, but there are many smaller numbers than that to pick from that he might not dislike.)

That's still a 3-sided negotiation, over who gives up how much. Maybe all 3 have to contribute to some degree. And it does have a deadline, if it's to be done, because the Mavs will have to manufacture a way to spend.

EXAMPLE
Maybe Duffy can get TOR to agree to pay GD $10M in the buyout. Then Duffy works the Mavs for how much of the difference they will pay him in salary. And then he is waived for $10M, and Dallas signs Dragic for some agreed amount.

In that example, instead of 1 year at $9.5M, maybe it ends up as a 1+1 deal at something like $6M per. It's not the minimum from Dallas, but it's not paying him $19M either. He ends up with 1 year at $16M or 2 years at $22M, which is closer to his worth, and it provides avenues to having him for multiple years rather than just one-and-done.

To get the ability to pay him, Mavs do the Bullock deal as a SNT by sending a small tip to NY, as the first transaction at 11 am FRI. NY uses cap room to sign him, which they immediately get back when they trade him, it costs NY nothing, they get a little something for their help, and the rest of their deals are all intact.

For TOR, they have improved on the alternatives. Waiting to find someone who will trade for him at $19M as an expiring rental is not likely o go anywhere. Then at the deadline, having already paid him about $13M, they will be entertaining a buyout where he gets some or all of the rest and goes elsewhere to a team in contention. And with this buyout now, they have locked in a lowered "cost" for Precious and a pick down to (in our example) only $10M. 

---------------------------

I don't know that this is what's happening right now in Mavs HQ. But it's what I would be trying to do.
(08-05-2021, 12:03 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Sure, but we're not counting guys who make plays for the OTHER team, are we?

Guard skills.

[Image: IllTanIndri-max-1mb.gif]
(08-05-2021, 12:04 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]@HouseMavericks

Marc Stein on @SpotifyGrnroom “Dallas will not jump into a trade. They are hoping Dragic makes his way into the free agent. They don’t want his $19 million. That could change… no guarantee Dragic ends up in Dallas.”


All Things SLOVENIA
@All_Things_Mavs

Marc Stein does not expect Dallas to jump into the Goran Dragic race as a third team. He says it’s “an open secret” that they would love to add him, but Stein believes it will only happen if it’s via free agency.


------------------------------

1 I believe M Stein has a good read on what's happening from the Mavs end (ie, he has been told x, y, and z and is sharing the gist of it).
2 I don't believe that ends the story, however, as there are two ways to look at this info.

The pessimistic take:
The trade talks are basically dead, and negotiations have ended. Either TOR will waive Dragic, or they won't, after which he might sign with the Mavs using the minimum salary they can offer. He will want his full salary, or almost all of it, if they waive him.

The optimistic take:
Negotiations with Dallas/TOR/Dragic are still very much alive. They have discarded the trade idea, and are now focused on the "buyout" possibility. Cuban won't bail out Duffy/Dragic, MIA, and TOR for that very bloated $19M salary that all of them manufactured to enable a trade. No interest in them getting the benefits, while he ends up being the one to choke that down.

But --- maybe after the others scrape off the excess salary via buyout at a discount, the Mavs are ready to pick up a certain amount of the difference. (I notice that Stein says they don't like Dragic at $19M, but there are many smaller numbers than that to pick from that he might not dislike.)

That's still a 3-sided negotiation, over who gives up how much. Maybe all 3 have to contribute to some degree. And it does have a deadline, if it's to be done, because the Mavs will have to manufacture a way to spend.

EXAMPLE
Maybe Duffy can get TOR to agree to pay GD $10M in the buyout. Then Duffy works the Mavs for how much of the difference they will pay him in salary. And then he is waived for $10M, and Dallas signs Dragic for some agreed amount.

In that example, instead of 1 year at $9.5M, maybe it ends up as a 1+1 deal at something like $6M per. It's not the minimum from Dallas, but it's not paying him $19M either. He ends up with 1 year at $16M or 2 years at $22M, which is closer to his worth, and it provides avenues to having him for multiple years rather than just one-and-done.

To get the ability to pay him, Mavs do the Bullock deal as a SNT by sending a small tip to NY, as the first transaction at 11 am FRI. NY uses cap room to sign him, which they immediately get back when they trade him, it costs NY nothing, they get a little something for their help, and the rest of their deals are all intact.

For TOR, they have improved on the alternatives. Waiting to find someone who will trade for him at $19M as an expiring rental is not likely o go anywhere. Then at the deadline, having already paid him about $13M, they will be entertaining a buyout where he gets some or all of the rest and goes elsewhere to a team in contention. And with this buyout now, they have locked in a lowered "cost" for Precious and a pick down to (in our example) only $10M. 

---------------------------

I don't know that this is what's happening right now in Mavs HQ. But it's what I would be trying to do.

Or the Mavs never talked a word to Toronto. They were waiting for a buyout all along.

And Toronto is waiting for the Dinwiddie situation to clear up, to offer Dragic to Washington or NO.
Dinwiddie’s going to Washington.
Why would New Orleans trade for Dragic at this point?
(08-05-2021, 12:18 AM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]Dinwiddie’s going to Washington.
Why would New Orleans trade for Dragic at this point?

I may be behind a little bit, but last time I looked this up Dinwiddie wasn't save any more.
€dit: ok, save again and this time for good.

NO let Ball go, sent Bledsoe away and didn't get Lowry. They are even deeper in the no PG mud than us.
(08-05-2021, 12:24 AM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]I may be behind a little bit, but last time I looked this up Dinwiddie wasn't save any more.
€dit: ok, save again and this time for good. 

NO let Ball go, sent Bledsoe away and didn't get Lowry. They are even deeper in the no PG mud than us.

I think Devonte Graham and Kira Lewis are their point guards now. Maybe they add a cheap veteran like Elfrid Payton, but I don’t see Dragic happening. Dragic will just ask for a buyout to go to Dallas, and if New Orleans doesn’t oblige.. after the Redick situation, yikes!

I think Forrest Gump has it figured out. I mean, I hope!
(08-05-2021, 12:41 AM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]I think Devonte Graham and Kira Lewis are their point guards now. Maybe they add a cheap veteran like Elfrid Payton, but I don’t see Dragic happening. Dragic will just ask for a buyout to go to Dallas, and if New Orleans doesn’t oblige.. after the Redick situation, yikes!

I think Forrest Gump has it figured out. I mean, I hope!

Sounds thin to me, but you are surly right about the "ask for a buyout" part.

Boy did NO f*ck this up.
Here is my latest out of the box trade to get Dragic.

Mavs get Dragic and Mitchell Robinson

NY get Brunson Redick sign and trade.

Raptors get WCS, Burke and Knox + a Mav 2nd
(08-04-2021, 10:16 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs clearly don't want to give up an asset to get Dragic......GOOD FOR THEM.

I wonder if the Mavs have another place they can trade DP.

I'm late (and haven't read through the rest of the thread) but is Terry really an asset? They guy barely looked like a basketball player last season then took off for mental health issues. 


Getting off of DP's contract is an asset itself. Getting a good impactful secondary creator that already has established chemistry with Luka is a cherry on top. Dragic takes this team to the next round of the playoffs. Terry I fear will barely play more than 20 games next season.

I absolutely hate this posturing, especially if they seriously don't want to commit to improving the team.
Dragic, yes
19M, no

That seems to be the answer from the Mavs, and most likely all the other teams in need of a PG. That's a lot of cap-space in relation to production. Might be helpful in so far as a trade goes, but not for the team that has that contract as the final landing place. It's the Raptors baby to deal with. Roster spots, and cap space are dwindling. Patience, grasshoppers.
It looks like the Mavs prefer to wait for a Dragic buy-out and potentially sign him using the Traded Player Exception. If that is so, who wpuld you target to trade Powell, WCS, and Burke for that can make thr Mavs better? Who can the Mavs get with thpse trade pieces?
(08-05-2021, 01:44 AM)Aussiebballer Wrote: [ -> ]Here is my latest out of the box trade to get Dragic.

Mavs get Dragic and Mitchell Robinson

NY get Brunson Redick sign and trade.

Raptors get WCS, Burke and Knox + a Mav 2nd

Dragic isn't capable of being full time backup PG tho. Especially not 82 games a season.

If anything the goal should be add Dragic (or another playmaker) towards Brunson. Don't think Dragic would make Brunson expendable for now.