MavsBoard

(08-05-2021, 04:36 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I do. I think he’d fit in great, and if they get the Dragic from the bubble season, I think he’d be a GOOD starter. 

Well, yeah. The question is, how big an "if" is that. 

He was removed from Miami’s starting lineup this past season because it was thought at the time that Tyler Herro was about to be an all-star. That turned out to be laughable, at least in the short term, and I believe Miami would’ve had a much better season had they not made that choice.

I absolutely think this guy has always been one of the most underrated players in the league, and I think that is still true even as he begins to decline.

I have been a fan of his for years, since before I even knew who Luka Doncic was, and this is like the third time they have teased us with the possibility of acquiring him. 

Every single positive thing I have written on this forum for the past 3 to 4 days has been built on a foundation of THJ and Goran Dragic.

Really? I may be misremembering, but I thought you were on the Kyle Lowry train. Was that only if they also got Dragic? Or was Dragic the alternative?

(08-05-2021, 04:48 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Eric Reid?

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Uh oh. I've already given Nate Hinton some love. Did I move to the next stage too soon?

(08-05-2021, 05:00 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]future DPOY EJ Onu

(08-05-2021, 04:53 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]mavsluvr Wrote:  [url=https://www.mavsboard.com/showthread.php?pid=102289#pid102289][/url]It seems like if any team is in a box, it's Toronto. They're the ones who agreed to take on an old backup guard on a wildly inflated salary, and are now scrambling to find a way out of it.
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Beg to differ. First, as I mentioned previously, Toronto has tons of options. 

Indeed, they do. But they don't have the option to force the Mavs to buy Dragic for more than they think he is worth. 

Also, they didn't "agree to take" Dragic. No one forced them to do anything. Toronto traded for him - and his guaranteed contract - with eyes wide open. There is no way they're "scrambling to find a way out" of a deal they haven't even officially completed.

Yeah, that's pretty much the definition of "agree," isn't it? No one forced it on you.  

Moreover, I don't know where this idea that Dragic's contract is wildly inflated came from. He signed the contract years ago and he's never been considered overpaid. Actually, there are people who consider him overpaid now. Apparently including other teams who aren't standing in line to pay him $19M. But others, including yourself, may well consider him underpaid. That's what makes horse races. Miami simply picked up the last year option. Sure, $19 million is starter money ... but he started half of Miami's playoff games last year and average 29 MIN which would be among top five if he played for the Mavs. For comparison, JRich got 13 MIN in the playoffs last year. Dragic is not some washed-up dead weight contract.

Dragic can provide a team some minutes. Could help the Mavs. Never said otherwise. 

I guess maybe your point is, if Dragic were a free agent today, a new deal might start between the full MLE and his current deal. But he's not a free agent, so it doesn't matter.

Of course, it matters. Other teams dealing with Toronto are going to pay what they think he's worth to them today, not when his contract was made/option take up by another team. So, if they think he is worth, for example, $10M to them, they're not likely to pay $19M. 

(08-05-2021, 04:16 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]If Mavsluvr is (obviously) Mark Followill, and he had a perfect setup that you missed, then does that mean you're...Derek Harper??

(08-05-2021, 04:29 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]After reading the last couple pages of the thread, I would agree with what others have said that 1) our new playmaker doesn't have to be Dragic, but on the other hand, 2) if not him, who? Looks to me like the only player left on the FA board who would be adequate is Jackson, and that's going to entail a separate move or two to make happen (i.e. the pivot to operating under-the-cap). 

Sounds like you are interpreting passing on Dragic as a statement by the Mavs that they are not going to make any further attempts to improve the roster, maybe until next offseason. If that is the situation, it's gravely disappointing. 

I mean, look - we all know that Brunson is pretty decent at generating his own shot, but we've also seen that he's iffy at getting teammates involved. He's not good enough for the role he's filling right now. All of the best teams in the league have at least two players whose presence makes you guard them. We've also seen that the Mavs have fallen apart catastrophically without Luka on the floor. I know there's all of the calls for Luka to improve his conditioning, but even if he becomes the world's most fit athlete, no player in the league is expected to carry a team for 48 minutes a game. We need an additional player who can 1) create his own shot, and 2) get his other teammates involved.

You seem to be making the case that the Mavs need another playmaker, which I don't think anyone disagrees with. 

I don't know how good Dragic is at 1) at this stage of his career, but he's far better than anything else we have aside from Luka at 2). I see him as a placeholder for until this FFO gets their poop together.  

That's how I would see the acquisition of Dragic, as well. Someone to tide them over until they find a more permanent solution. I suppose there are other ways to view it, as well. 

Then there's the issue of placating Luka. After what's happened on the FA front these past four days, dynamically placating him is a team need. We're skating on thin ice. ML, with all due respect, I was disappointed with your post about the issue of Luka wanting Dragic vs. Luka demanding Dragic. At this point, the NMBT would be gravely foolish to regard anything worded as the former as not having the weight of the latter. If Luka wants Dragic, make it so.

I'm not sure Luka has to be "placated," as if he were three years old, or nursing some kind of grudge. Agree that his wishes should be accommodated, if reasonably possible. As far as wanting Dragic, maybe Luka "campaigned" for Dragic, maybe he didn't. I don't know what sources Evan Massey has, or what the sources told him. That could be anything from, "Sign Goran Dragic, or I'll never report to work again," to "You want to sign Dragic? Sure, cool, whatevs." I am not yet sold on the new FO being any better than the old one, but I do think that  they are smart enough to take Luka's desires into account. 

I will admit that if Toronto is demanding Brunson, DFS, or a future first for Dragic, they're off their rocker, and all of us would be pretty furious with that if it happened. But if the Mavs aren't going to get Dragic, by buyout or trade, they'd better scramble for plan Z real darn quick. To go into next season without another playmaker is to punt the season - if they haven't already done so by not achieving enough this offseason.

Totally agree that they badly need another playmaker. Probably disagree that if they go into the season without another playmaker, that signals a decision on their part to punt the season. 

(08-05-2021, 05:53 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'm not sure why the Mavs would be pressured to get Goran.  We haven't really raised the ceiling for this team.  We are a lower seed playoff team that could be a 1st or 2nd round exit.  Dragic isn't going to raise that ceiling either and certainly not enough to squander the few assets we have.  I'd rather dust off Zoran than give up anything for Goran.  

The only leap this team can make is if a healthy KP can return to form and Kidd can figure out a way to make him and Luka work well together on the court.  That's what all of our moves have pointed to, giving KP one last season to fit in Dallas.

(08-05-2021, 06:18 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Even if that truly is their philosophy, they still need another playmaker, whether it's Dragic or someone else. Imho, tbqh.

(08-05-2021, 06:23 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]How much money can the team scrape together?  I know people hate Dennis the menace, but it is looking like he's heading to a one-year deal.  I don't love his personality, but he'd be fine for a year.  That gives you a secondary ball-handler, playmaking, perimeter defense and an okay'ish outside shooter.  If it is a one year deal, he's probably on his best behavior and if he becomes a problem, send him home.  It's a Cuban, zig-zag move.

(08-05-2021, 06:02 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I am not yet sold on the new FO being any better than the old one, but I do think that  they are smart enough to take Luka's desires into account. 

(08-05-2021, 06:31 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]He’s apparently a major “arsch” - according to Dirk Nowitzki and Maximilian Kleber. Not gonna happen.

(08-05-2021, 06:35 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Which was pointed in my post.  Low risk, high reward.  If the arschloch comes out, send it home.

(08-05-2021, 06:23 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]How much money can the team scrape together?  I know people hate Dennis the menace, but it is looking like he's heading to a one-year deal.  I don't love his personality, but he'd be fine for a year.  That gives you a secondary ball-handler, playmaking, perimeter defense and an okay'ish outside shooter.  If it is a one year deal, he's probably on his best behavior and if he becomes a problem, send him home.  It's a Cuban, zig-zag move.

(08-05-2021, 06:40 PM)VintagePejav2 Wrote: [ -> ]I think I’d just rather see this dude get some real NBA minutes:
https://youtu.be/T58AxanpiEQ

(08-05-2021, 06:35 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Appreciate the discussion sans ultimatum/negativity. You make great points.

On the one I quoted, though, aren’t you impressed with the timely, decisive moves to get two-way guys on long-term deals at reasonable prices?

I would like to say yes, and hope I eventually can. I just haven't seen enough of either Bullock or Brown to have a solid opinion of them one way or another. And, tbh, I'm still feeling a little burned from when we heard similar stories regarding Delon Wright, Josh Richardson, James Johnson, etc. none of whom performed as advertised. Not expressing pessimism at all on the new moves, they look reasonable on paper. 

 I’m trying to think of when the previous management accomplished any of those things. I can’t remember any first-in-line deals involving the Mavs. Wes Matthews maybe? I’m not sure. I don’t remember the Mavs signing two-way guys. Defenders or offenders every time, it seems to me. And the only value signings I can think of were too short. Maybe Curry the second time was an exception? 

I’m sure there are deals I’m forgetting. I’m not a Donny hater. And I can’t get over how well they did with Luka and Jalen in the 2018 draft. 

But the RB/SB signings are different in kind, not just degree, from what we’ve been seeing in free agency. Again, these moves (1) were decisive, (2) involve 2-way players, and (3) locked em up on long-term, value deals. That seems new and better to me. Significantly so.

Yes, glad that they haven't waited around and just salvaged a few scraps from whoever was left over. I'm not saying I'm negative on the new FO. I hope they're great. Just that the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. 

(08-05-2021, 06:44 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, they might have to hold their noses and sign someone like that, at least temporarily. 

I actually would be okay with Brunson being Luka's primary backup for the regular season, although I think they still need a third point guard who can actually play meaningful minutes in case someone is hurt. However, I fear that Brunson's size/lack of speed puts a fairly modest ceiling on how much he can contribute in the playoffs.