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(10-28-2021, 03:45 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]I wonder how many of those Luka+KP possessions included Dwight Powell...

I get why Nick tweeted it, and I've been known to throw out "way too early" statistics on occasion, but even I wouldn't cite this data.

The most used With Luka/Without KP lineups have played a total of 13 and 9 minutes.

Powell/DFS/THJ/Luka/Brunson is +21.9 in 13 minutes
Powell/DFS/THJ/Luka/Maxi is -2.1 in 9 minutes (is the hot take that Brunson is 24 points of Net Rating better than Maxi?)

The most used without Luka/With KP lineups have played 10 and 3 minutes

The starters (including both KP and Luka) have played a total of 40 minutes together (-23.8).  The next closest five man lineup with both has only played 5 minutes together.

There are a total of 17 minutes with 7 combinations of lineups with the two stars, but without Powell.  -64.3, -43.1, +70, -75, -75 and one minute stints that are +100 and +50.

There are only two minutes of KP + Luka + Powell minutes other than the starting lineup data cited above.  

BTW, the starters have played 18 second half minutes together (if you really want to get silly).  They are +19.2 with a D rating of 91.9.  HOWEVER, they are -56.7 in their 22 minutes together in the first half of games.
(10-28-2021, 01:21 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]From what I have seen, there are a lot of people who share your curiosity about the merits of giving S Brown minutes over Green or some of the other players. If I were to venture a reason, it would probably be that Kidd is still trying things out, and he may already have a good bit more information on Josh than he does on Brown. 

It is certainly possible that Green will step up. My own guesstimate would be that he may be more likely to do that a little later in the season, and that Bullock would probably be the more likely immediate beneficiary of Brown's minutes being cut. However, that is just based on my three-game observation of their various performances, and not on anything I have heard from a team source or from sourced reports. 

What say you on the subject?


As much to my dismay I don't think Green has shown enough to warrant a fixture in the rotation. But if he doesn't get minutes how can he improve? Tough cycle.

I do think the opposite on your timeline though. I believe as the season progresses Kidd will solidify his playoff rotation versus early on he let the young guns fill in the gaps. Overall I think it's more likely that Reggie gets a bump in minutes than Josh taking over Brown's time, and if it ever happens it'll probably come in November than February. 

Fortunately (unfortunately?) S.Brown is out tonight against the Spurs so I suppose we'll put this question to the test and see what Kidd chooses.
(10-28-2021, 05:59 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]As much to my dismay I don't think Green has shown enough to warrant a fixture in the rotation. But if he doesn't get minutes how can he improve? Tough cycle.

I do think the opposite on your timeline though. I believe as the season progresses Kidd will solidify his playoff rotation versus early on he let the young guns fill in the gaps. Overall I think it's more likely that Reggie gets a bump in minutes than Josh taking over Brown's time, and if it ever happens it'll probably come in November than February. 

Fortunately (unfortunately?) S.Brown is out tonight against the Spurs so I suppose we'll put this question to the test and see what Kidd chooses.
My thinking was that Josh might improve his shot enough at some point during the season to justify giving him some minutes, but you may well be right. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what Reggie looks like tonight in the starting lineup.
(10-28-2021, 12:55 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Was thinking about Sterling Brown and the amount of time he gets during the game. After 3 games I'm curious why he's getting the nod over Josh Green. It's not like either can score and if we're looking for playmaking Green gets the edge there too.


All of what I'm about to say is assumption, based in part on general (amateur) NBA knowledge, more extensive knowledge of how Carlisle did things and mild speculation about Kidd based on how Brown has been used here so far. 

What I think is that the term "wing" gets used a little too liberally these days by fans and media. 

DFS/Bullock are CLEARLY forwards. You can call them wings, too, I suppose. Some would even put Kleber in this category, but I don't. I think he's one more step towards "big." If you want to, you can get away with calling him a wing around here, I've noticed, but I personally don't find that label fitting for him at all. 

Brunson, Burke, Brown and Ntilikina are all clearly guards, at least in my mind. They, too, get called wings all the time. 

The responsibilities for all players above might overlap greatly in some sets/actions, and they might even be 100% interchangeable during some parts of some games in some teams' systems, but I don't think it's wise to assume so as a given. 

Brown has been handling the ball an awful lot during this young season, as if he is being given a shot to prove he can play a specific role on offense that Kidd wants someone to grow into. To me, this is an indication that he started behind only Luka, Brunson and THJ on the guard list, and tbh, that's right were I thought he'd be. I also feel like a guard's ability to play both on and off ball might be valued more or less from coach to coach - system to system. It's not clear to me yet where Kidd falls on that spectrum. 

Green, imo, falls into a category with THJ - can play big guard or small forward. They're called wings often, too, but what if Kidd doesn't view that versatility as something as crucial as we're accustomed to thinking? Or, what if he values it in established pros like THJ (2/3) and DFS (3/4) but thinks it's wise to limit "learning on the job" young players to one position at a time? Expanding on that, what if he thinks the 3 should be Green's starting point, not the 2? 

If that's the case, then I think it's quite easy to determine why Brown would be playing ahead of Green. I don't agree that he's a better playmaker than Brown, and I feel like I can say that confidently without even having a real grasp on Brown's playmaking ability - that's how much of an afterthought I think Green's playmaking is at this point. I think Green's ceiling in this league is 3&D with the added bonus of being able to run the floor (something we know Kidd values) and he has not yet demonstrated the ability to hit 3's. In other words, at this time, Green is not a player with a clear path onto the court, imo. 

I think Green might get some burn tonight as a result of Porzingis being out, ironically, not because of Brown. No KP means more minutes with one big, probably, which means more DFS at the 4 and more DFS/Bullock on the floor together. I think this might mean we see Green during a stint or two instead of adding minutes for guys like Kleber, WCS, Powell, etc. It just depends on how Kidd wants to handle that. But, at this time, I think Green is in the mix with the forwards, not the guards. 

I am fully expecting Ntilikina to get the first shot at picking up Brown's slack, as I bet they are in closer competition for a rotation spot than people realize, with Brown being given the role to lose. 

Again, this is all my speculation, but to me the logic of it tracks.
Wait I thought KP was healthy for the first time since…. well, whatever.
(10-28-2021, 01:21 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I am amazed at the people who, when the question arises as to why so many came to the the opening Mavs game "dressed as empty seats" (as Dandy Don used to say), are going nuts over the opinion that the mask mandate at Mavs games has an adverse impact on attendance. Venomous personal attacks, even, for simply offering the idea? Creating straw men out of my words to be able to attack me for things I never said? Taking the time to create a user name just for such attacks? Such silliness. Too funny.

Actions have consequences, and I've merely suggested that's probably what we're seeing. If you don't realize that people do what they enjoy doing, or don't understand that altering the experience being offered can impact Mavs attendance, maybe you should.


Has it been confirmed that F Gump is DLord? Because this definitely sounds like DLord. News flash F Gump, Covid mask and vaccine discussions are a very hot button topic that elicit strong emotions from everyone. This is the internet, it's time to accept that people are going to disagree with you, sometimes strongly, and sometimes will seemingly attack you for it. You can cut the the self-righteous indignation.

In fact, can we please, for the love of everything, just keep discussion about covid in the covid discussion thread. I'm just so tired of talking about it.
(10-28-2021, 06:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]All of what I'm about to say is assumption, based in part on general (amateur) NBA knowledge, more extensive knowledge of how Carlisle did things and mild speculation about Kidd based on how Brown has been used here so far. 

What I think is that the term "wing" gets used a little too liberally these days by fans and media. 

DFS/Bullock are CLEARLY forwards. You can call them wings, too, I suppose. Some would even put Kleber in this category, but I don't. I think he's one more step towards "big." If you want to, you can get away with calling him a wing around here, I've noticed, but I personally don't find that label fitting for him at all. 

Brunson, Burke, Brown and Ntilikina are all clearly guards, at least in my mind. They, too, get called wings all the time. 

The responsibilities for all players above might overlap greatly in some sets/actions, and they might even be 100% interchangeable during some parts of some games in some teams' systems, but I don't think it's wise to assume so as a given. 

Brown has been handling the ball an awful lot during this young season, as if he is being given a shot to prove he can play a specific role on offense that Kidd wants someone to grow into. To me, this is an indication that he started behind only Luka, Brunson and THJ on the guard list, and tbh, that's right were I thought he'd be. I also feel like a guard's ability to play both on and off ball might be valued more or less from coach to coach - system to system. It's not clear to me yet where Kidd falls on that spectrum. 

Green, imo, falls into a category with THJ - can play big guard or small forward. They're called wings often, too, but what if Kidd doesn't view that versatility as something as crucial as we're accustomed to thinking? Or, what if he values it in established pros like THJ (2/3) and DFS (3/4) but thinks it's wise to limit "learning on the job" young players to one position at a time? Expanding on that, what if he thinks the 3 should be Green's starting point, not the 2? 

If that's the case, then I think it's quite easy to determine why Brown would be playing ahead of Green. I don't agree that he's a better playmaker than Brown, and I feel like I can say that confidently without even having a real grasp on Brown's playmaking ability - that's how much of an afterthought I think Green's playmaking is at this point. I think Green's ceiling in this league is 3&D with the added bonus of being able to run the floor (something we know Kidd values) and he has not yet demonstrated the ability to hit 3's. In other words, at this time, Green is not a player with a clear path onto the court, imo. 

I think Green might get some burn tonight as a result of Porzingis being out, ironically, not because of Brown. No KP means more minutes with one big, probably, which means more DFS at the 4 and more DFS/Bullock on the floor together. I think this might mean we see Green during a stint or two instead of adding minutes for guys like Kleber, WCS, Powell, etc. It just depends on how Kidd wants to handle that. But, at this time, I think Green is in the mix with the forwards, not the guards. 

I am fully expecting Ntilikina to get the first shot at picking up Brown's slack, as I bet they are in closer competition for a rotation spot than people realize, with Brown being given the role to lose. 

Again, this is all my speculation, but to me the logic of it tracks.
Lots of food for thought here. Would like to ponder this for a while.
(10-28-2021, 07:23 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Lots of food for thought here. Would like to ponder this for a while.


Don't let it distract you while you're calling the game.
(10-28-2021, 07:27 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Don't let it distract you while you're calling the game.

LOL, SMH
(10-28-2021, 06:05 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]My thinking was that Josh might improve his shot enough at some point during the season to justify giving him some minutes, but you may well be right. 

I'm looking forward to seeing what Reggie looks like tonight in the starting lineup.


The question has been answered! Franky N gets the nod. Darkhorse candidate that wasn't even mentioned played some invaluable minutes tonight. 

Surprised we didn't see any of Green tonight when we had both Burke and Brown out.
(10-28-2021, 10:02 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Franky N gets the nod.

Turns out the Mavs functional 2017 draft might be a real winner!
(10-28-2021, 06:37 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I am fully expecting Ntilikina to get the first shot at picking up Brown's slack, as I bet they are in closer competition for a rotation spot than people realize, with Brown being given the role to lose. 


You were right on the head with your post that I just read now.

Some amazing stuff there.
(10-28-2021, 10:03 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/IsaacLHarris/status/...6961117185

Dear Jason, 

Save this type of talk until after we extend him.

Love,

Mark Cuban