MavsBoard

(08-14-2021, 10:30 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Tyler, I tried to find this somewhere besides Fanpro to confirm this and have not had any luck.  The shorter restriction was in place for the condensed 20/21 season, but I'm not sure it applies to 21/22.  The fact that Hollinger and MavsCBA both mention 10/1 leads me to believe it is probably 10/1.  Too bad (if true).  I was kind of hoping to be done with this next week.  

I really liked the idea of using a single deal to satisfy Chicago and Toronto.  But if 10/1 is the date and camp opens on 9/28, that feels problematic (though not impossible) for a direct deal between Dallas and Toronto.  Keeping Chicago and LM waiting too seems even less likely.  I think Hollinger probably has this right.  It is Powell, Moses and someone making over $1.56mm.  Unfortunately, Terry doesn't make enough.

Dragic is negative equity at $19mm for one year.  Powell is also, but the money is more palatable split over two years.  The rest is just window dressing as I don't see Dallas giving up value in the form of Green or a pick for Dragic.  

The other version of getting to $14mm is Maxi, Willie and Moses.  I struggle to see Maxi going out unless LM is coming in from Chicago.  To the point you made yesterday, Maxi could end up in Chicago as a backup PF and Willie Cauley-Moses makes sense in Toronto.  Willie plays for a year with Birch and Moses is the project who is in a position to replace him a year from now.  To your point about "tampering" (or making well informed option decisions on players), the Opt-In on WCS makes more sense with either he or Powell leaving.  The version where Maxi goes to Chicago and WCS/Moses go to Toronto keeps all three teams comfortably under the tax (yes, even with LM and GD coming here at $30mm).  

If it works out, Toronto got Precious and Moses for facilitating a Lowry S&T while preserving flexibility.  If it doesn't, neither Chicago nor Toronto have any salary obligation past the current season.

KP/Powell/Boban
DFS/Markkanen/
THJ/S. Brown/Green
Bullock/Brunson/Burke
Luka/Dragic/Terry

Don't think it makes sense to put Maxi in these trades.  Looking at the roster you have above, you do not want to play Powell/Lauri as your bigs.  Neither can guard the rim.  It's not a good mix.  Honestly, Maxi is most valuable playing backup center.  He fits perfect with guys like Powell as he can protect the rim and space the floor.  He also fits well with Lauri.  If we end up giving up Powell and WCS to get Dragic and Lauri, Maxi is our backup center.

(08-14-2021, 07:00 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Don't think it makes sense to put Maxi in these trades.  Looking at the roster you have above, you do not want to play Powell/Lauri as your bigs.  Neither can guard the rim.  It's not a good mix.  Honestly, Maxi is most valuable playing backup center.  He fits perfect with guys like Powell as he can protect the rim and space the floor.  He also fits well with Lauri.  If we end up giving up Powell and WCS to get Dragic and Lauri, Maxi is our backup center.

You realize the Mavs may not have a choice, beings as they have to satisfy the other team and the player as well as themselves...

(08-14-2021, 06:03 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]It is weird Green is not playing in the summer league, but I would be very surprised and disappointed if this was due to a potential trade.   Long term, I think Green can be a very nice piece playing with Luka.

How long term? Mavs added Bullock and Brown this offseason, and are trying to add Dragic. It's hard to see many minutes for him this year.

(08-14-2021, 07:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]You realize the Mavs may not have a choice, beings as they have to satisfy the other team and the player as well as themselves...

That's not really true.
You could argue if the other team is satisfied in this case, you've done it wrong.

(08-14-2021, 07:13 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]You realize the Mavs may not have a choice, beings as they have to satisfy the other team and the player as well as themselves...

They do have a choice.  They can not do the trade.

(08-14-2021, 09:30 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]They do have a choice.  They can not do the trade.

"We love our boys in blue. Larry on the way, baby."

(08-14-2021, 10:10 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]"We love our boys in blue. Larry on the way, baby."

Better than to make bad trade, that makes you worse, just to make a trade.

(08-14-2021, 11:06 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]

I like this guy already.

(08-14-2021, 04:43 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/townbrad/status/1426659666675654656

Secondary creator!

I´m not going to lie. If it means we get to keep Green and Brown, I´d run JJB (or even gulp Burke) out there for 10-15 MPG from November to March, until Dragic or somebody else gets bought out. I´d give up Tyrell Terry or a 2nd rounder, if they take Powell. That´s it for Dragic. Ujiri clearly thought he can generate most of his Lowry/Dragic trade value by ripping us off. Another reason Nico needs to stand firm. Establish yourself.

We are not winning the title next season, so keep the few better assets you do have. Chances that Green/Brown develop into useful rotational players, who increase their trade value, are certainly higher than 35 year old Dragic being the missing championship piece.

(08-14-2021, 07:00 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]Don't think it makes sense to put Maxi in these trades.  Looking at the roster you have above, you do not want to play Powell/Lauri as your bigs.  Neither can guard the rim.  It's not a good mix.  Honestly, Maxi is most valuable playing backup center.  He fits perfect with guys like Powell as he can protect the rim and space the floor.  He also fits well with Lauri.  If we end up giving up Powell and WCS to get Dragic and Lauri, Maxi is our backup center.

I'm working under the assumption that we are getting Dragic and LM in a single deal with LM coming into our TPE.  If that is the case, I'm willing to give up either DP or Maxi.  I think we can presume Moses is in the deal.  Once you get to that point, there are only so many combo's that work:

IF DP/Moses, you need $1.66mm.  The following get you there:

     WCS         Not likely given two other centers are already in the deal.  DP/WCS works w/o Moses, but I think we are past that thinking
     DFS          No, he's a starter
     Burke       He fits, but what value does he provide
     Green       This makes the most sense, especially since we've now added Bullock, Dragic and Sterling
     Brunson    I hope not.  Despite his contract situation.  Adding Dragic and subtracting Brunson leaves you short on ball-handlers (DSJ? Frank?)

If Maxi/Moses, you need $3.99mm.  The following get you there:

     WCS         We differ here.  I think Maxi is a PF/C, not the reverse.  So, pairing him with outgoing WCS makes sense to me
     DFS          See Above


Outside of those two, the Maxi/Moses plan requires combos to make it a 4 for 2 deal.  Burke plus Terry.  Green plus Terry.   I think we can safely eliminate Terry.  Moses and Green were apparently held out of the summer league and Terry wasn't.   90% of the board would rather lose Powell than Maxi.  But, it takes two to tango (actually three since this looks like a 3-team deal).  

The simple version of this is send Powell to his home town.  Green goes to Chicago and Moses (project) could go either way.  But look at Toronto's big rotation of Boucher, Birch and Achiuwa.  Do they really need Powell and Moses?  Yeah, I get that Boucher and Achiuwa can play some at PF behind Siakam.  But, so can OG (and he probably will with Scotty Barnes needing some minutes).  If it goes down like this, I suspect Chicago gets Moses and Green with only Powell going to Canada (simply spreading Dragic's money over two years instead of all $19mm in a single year).

Meanwhile, look at Chicago.  If they trade out LM, they are pretty thin with Vuc, Bradley (2 year minimum) and P. Williams as their options at the 5/4.  They definitely need more help here, but with LaVine's extension kicking in next season, they absolutely don't take two years of Powell.  If Toronto isn't taking Powell, then we should probably be prepared for Maxi as the outgoing.  Vuc can only play the five and Maxi would make great sense as the 3rd big there between Vuc and P. Williams.  Fortunately for your preferred version, the tea leaves say Green and Moses are outgoing and that doesn't work with Maxi without another outgoing body.  I think Tyler probably nailed this unless the deal is expanded to include other players.  My biggest fear isn't the Powell vs. Maxi part.  I can live with either.  I'm more worried about Brunson going out and someone like DSJ takes his place.  If he and Frank are still available come 10/1, I'll start to get nervous.  Chicago doesn't need Brunson, but Toronto probably does.

Amazing. DSJ is 9 months younger than Brunson. He’s still only 23. What a strange road he’s been on. I was looking at that month-long burn Det gave him, and he was really not that bad. There is something there if you squint and turn your head just right.

Wonder if the disconnect is us needing to give Chi something other than the TPE due to LM not wanting the low contract and us wanting to give him more? Are we trying to force Chi to take Maxi and Brown for LM on a higher salary?  I hope they aren’t wanting to do the full asking $15M, but what about a compromise of $12-13M to the team he wants to go to and off the team he hates? It also gives Chi 2 backups for 1.

(08-15-2021, 09:09 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Wonder if the disconnect is us needing to give Chi something other than the TPE due to LM not wanting the low contract and us wanting to give him more? Are we trying to force Chi to take Maxi and Brown for LM on a higher salary?  I hope they aren’t wanting to do the full asking $15M, but what about a compromise of $12-13M to the team he wants to go to and off the team he hates? It also gives Chi 2 backups for 1.

If you try to trade match LM, then you've blown up the concept of Dragic/LM coming in the same deal.

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(08-15-2021, 09:04 AM)SweetFidelia Wrote: [ -> ]Amazing. DSJ is 9 months younger than Brunson. He’s still only 23. What a strange road he’s been on. I was looking at that month-long burn Det gave him, and he was really not that bad. There is something there if you squint and turn your head just right.

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2021/7/15...-interview

(08-15-2021, 09:09 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Wonder if the disconnect is us needing to give Chi something other than the TPE due to LM not wanting the low contract and us wanting to give him more? Are we trying to force Chi to take Maxi and Brown for LM on a higher salary?  I hope they aren’t wanting to do the full asking $15M, but what about a compromise of $12-13M to the team he wants to go to and off the team he hates? It also gives Chi 2 backups for 1.

Chicago is at $131 million in taxable salaries. They have $5.5 million in breathing room. They have a $5 million TPE. The reporting has suggested that they will not take on any meaningful salary in a LM deal. Rather than an expensive 3 way deal, the easiest way to a LM trade is using the Dallas ~$11 million TPE or the New Orleans ~$17 million TPE. 

How much will new orleans offer so LM knows how much $ he would need to give up to come here? The Dallas end is likely(should be) set at a max of ~4/$48 million that can fit in the TPE. 

What is the asset(s) Chicago will ask for from DAL/NO? Reports say the Chicago ask is a FRP which we will not pay. 2nd rounder would do it? 

Chicago also needs to think about the Ball tampering penalty which will likely be draft picks

The Chicago Locked On podcast guys are convinced that a former employee, who works for New Orleans now, is responsible for the Ball leak to Shams. Who knows if that’s real, but it would be a theory as to why negotiations are taking so long.

My guess is Chicago and LM want a FRP and at least $15 million per from New Orleans. Dallas is playing hardball and has given a final offer of a 2nd and 4/48. A game of chicken that hopefully ends with us getting a steal

(08-15-2021, 10:03 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]If you try to trade match LM, then you've blown up the concept of Dragic/LM coming in the same deal.

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https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2021/7/15...-interview

Same deal makes sense if you include Green in the Dragic part. Green is maybe too high of a price to pay, so Toronto sends the Miami 2nd they got in the Lowry deal to Chicago. Wouldn’t even be surprised if that was the original deal and was blown up with the Ball/Lowry investigation.

(08-15-2021, 08:31 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]I'm working under the assumption that we are getting Dragic and LM in a single deal with LM coming into our TPE.  If that is the case, I'm willing to give up either DP or Maxi.  I think we can presume Moses is in the deal.  Once you get to that point, there are only so many combo's that work:

IF DP/Moses, you need $1.66mm.  The following get you there:

     WCS         Not likely given two other centers are already in the deal.  DP/WCS works w/o Moses, but I think we are past that thinking
     DFS          No, he's a starter
     Burke       He fits, but what value does he provide
     Green       This makes the most sense, especially since we've now added Bullock, Dragic and Sterling
     Brunson    I hope not.  Despite his contract situation.  Adding Dragic and subtracting Brunson leaves you short on ball-handlers (DSJ? Frank?)

If Maxi/Moses, you need $3.99mm.  The following get you there:

     WCS         We differ here.  I think Maxi is a PF/C, not the reverse.  So, pairing him with outgoing WCS makes sense to me
     DFS          See Above


Outside of those two, the Maxi/Moses plan requires combos to make it a 4 for 2 deal.  Burke plus Terry.  Green plus Terry.   I think we can safely eliminate Terry.  Moses and Green were apparently held out of the summer league and Terry wasn't.   90% of the board would rather lose Powell than Maxi.  But, it takes two to tango (actually three since this looks like a 3-team deal).  

The simple version of this is send Powell to his home town.  Green goes to Chicago and Moses (project) could go either way.  But look at Toronto's big rotation of Boucher, Birch and Achiuwa.  Do they really need Powell and Moses?  Yeah, I get that Boucher and Achiuwa can play some at PF behind Siakam.  But, so can OG (and he probably will with Scotty Barnes needing some minutes).  If it goes down like this, I suspect Chicago gets Moses and Green with only Powell going to Canada (simply spreading Dragic's money over two years instead of all $19mm in a single year).

Meanwhile, look at Chicago.  If they trade out LM, they are pretty thin with Vuc, Bradley (2 year minimum) and P. Williams as their options at the 5/4.  They definitely need more help here, but with LaVine's extension kicking in next season, they absolutely don't take two years of Powell.  If Toronto isn't taking Powell, then we should probably be prepared for Maxi as the outgoing.  Vuc can only play the five and Maxi would make great sense as the 3rd big there between Vuc and P. Williams.  Fortunately for your preferred version, the tea leaves say Green and Moses are outgoing and that doesn't work with Maxi without another outgoing body.  I think Tyler probably nailed this unless the deal is expanded to include other players.  My biggest fear isn't the Powell vs. Maxi part.  I can live with either.  I'm more worried about Brunson going out and someone like DSJ takes his place.  If he and Frank are still available come 10/1, I'll start to get nervous.  Chicago doesn't need Brunson, but Toronto probably does.

I'm probably in the minority but I am not interested in sending out Maxi for LM.  I realize LM is younger and has improvement potential (although he has not shown much so far), but I think Maxi is more important to this team as currently constructed and as likely constructed for the next couple of years.  

I greatly prefer your Boucher idea.  I would be more than happy to send out Powell/Green/Moses for Dragic/Boucher.

Also, if the question is why would Toronto take Powell/Burke/Moses, maybe in order to re-sign Trent and stay under the tax line?  There may be easier ways to get there, but it really does not make sense for them to hold on to Dragic and be over the tax line.

(08-15-2021, 09:04 AM)SweetFidelia Wrote: [ -> ]Amazing. DSJ is 9 months younger than Brunson. He’s still only 23. What a strange road he’s been on. I was looking at that month-long burn Det gave him, and he was really not that bad. There is something there if you squint and turn your head just right.

He did look better in Detroit.  If we don't end up getting Dragic, then he is probably our next best option (baring a trade).  If we do end up with Dragic, I think I would rather take a flyer on Frank.  If we send enough guys out on trades, I would be fine with taking a shot on both.

Enjoy reading all the Dragic/LM talk for 3 Mavs going out and also DSJ possible return.  But did Cuban tip his hand when asked about DSJ the other day - "we don't have an open roster spot yet"?