(08-10-2021, 05:22 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]What am I wrong about in the original post then?
The part that i quoted where you suggested to combine TT salary plus TPE to offer more than TPE value to Markannen.
If the Mavs eject Powell and Burke into space and off of their payroll while subsequently adding Lauri Legend and the Dragon (and re-adding DSJJJ) I will give the offseason an A+.
(08-10-2021, 05:17 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]I thought separate deals like that were an illegal salary cap circumvention (the other players, not picks).
If the salary is low enough you don’t have to aggregate salaries between teams
(08-10-2021, 05:43 PM)Halfnir Wrote: [ -> ]The part that i quoted where you suggested to combine TT salary plus TPE to offer more than TPE value to Markannen.
But that was after I said they would have to be separate trades and was told no.
Let me attempt to clarify on the TPE conversation that’s been going on. You can bring in a player/players using the TPE. If the TPE is exactly $10.9mm you can absorb a player making $11 million or under (there is a $100k buffer on the TPE). So, if the TPE is used for a S&T, it can be for any amount under the TPE (using part of the TPE) up to $100k over the TPE.
What you can’t do us combine the $10.9mm with $2.0 million in space or a player making $2.0mm and pretend you are sending out $13mm for trade matching purposes. No matter what you send out, you are only bringing back into the TPE what the TPE allows. Can you send out more? Sure. But it isn’t adding anything to what the TPE can absorb. You could send out Powell and Burke at about $14.9mm and take back a player making $11mm into the TPE (but why, that works as a trade match). The specific question was TT plus the TPE. You can trade anything (cash, highly protected 2028 second) and bring someone back into the TPE. The question is can the other team take TT. Why not as long as it is a legal trade. Think of LM coming into our TPE for $11mm as the completion of the JRich deal. Can Chicago take back TT in a deal where they send out LM at $11mm? Yes. As has been discussed, LM has to be willing to play for that amount for 3 years as a non-guaranteed contract doesn’t help LM. He’d be under team control for the entire three years whether there was a non-guarantee or not.
The other possible way (and probably more likely way) to do a LM deal is trade matching (the TPE isn’t necessarily used). FG has pointed out that LM is subject to BYC since Chicago isn’t using cap space to sign him. In fact, they are within about $18mm of the LT without counting LM’s hold. So, any trade matching salary has to come in safely under the tax. There are only so many ways this can happen. The good news is Chicago has a $5mm TPE, Dallas has a $10.865mm TPE and the DeRozan deal is still not official. SA could take on some salary Chicago doesn’t want (Maxi?) to help facilitate the deal. Maybe the cost of doing that is Dallas taking something SA doesn’t want into our TPE. Oh, and what compensation has to go to Chicago? They want a first rounder (reportedly). Does Green count? Is that why he isn’t playing in SL?
(08-10-2021, 06:28 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Let me attempt to clarify on the TPE conversation that’s been going on. You can bring in a player/players using the TPE. If the TPE is exactly $10.9mm you can absorb a player making $11 million or under (there is a $100k buffer on the TPE). So, if the TPE is used for a S&T, it can be for any amount under the TPE (using part of the TPE) up to $100k over the TPE.
What you can’t do us combine the $10.9mm with $2.0 million in space or a player making $2.0mm and pretend you are sending out $13mm for trade matching purposes. No matter what you send out, you are only bringing back into the TPE what the TPE allows. Can you send out more? Sure. But it isn’t adding anything to what the TPE can absorb. You could send out Powell and Burke at about $14.9mm and take back a player making $11mm into the TPE (but why, that works as a trade match). The specific question was TT plus the TPE. You can trade anything (cash, highly protected 2028 second) and bring someone back into the TPE. The question is can the other team take TT. Why not as long as it is a legal trade. Think of LM coming into our TPE for $11mm as the completion of the JRich deal. Can Chicago take back TT in a deal where they send out LM at $11mm? Yes. As has been discussed, LM has to be willing to play for that amount for 3 years as a non-guaranteed contract doesn’t help LM. He’d be under team control for the entire three years whether there was a non-guarantee or not.
The other possible way (and probably more likely way) to do a LM deal is trade matching (the TPE isn’t necessarily used). FG has pointed out that LM is subject to BYC since Chicago isn’t using cap space to sign him. In fact, they are within about $18mm of the LT without counting LM’s hold. So, any trade matching salary has to come in safely under the tax. There are only so many ways this can happen. The good news is Chicago has a $5mm TPE, Dallas has a $10.865mm TPE and the DeRozan deal is still not official. SA could take on some salary Chicago doesn’t want (Maxi?) to help facilitate the deal. Maybe the cost of doing that is Dallas taking something SA doesn’t want into our TPE. Oh, and what compensation has to go to Chicago? They want a first rounder (reportedly). Does Green count? Is that why he isn’t playing in SL?
When they announced that he was practicing but not playing, I wondered immediately if they were keeping him out for a trade possibility, because it is highly irregular, especially when you consider the situation with Rick and Josh's little PT last year.
(08-10-2021, 08:40 PM)TXBamanut Wrote: [ -> ]When they announced that he was practicing but not playing, I wondered immediately if they were keeping him out for a trade possibility, because it is highly irregular, especially when you consider the situation with Rick and Josh's little PT last year.
Seems to me that Josh wouldn't be playing due to jet lag and being generally exhausted from the Olympics, but what do I know.
(08-10-2021, 08:48 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]generally exhausted
It's tough sitting on the bench and watching your teammates go to war....
(08-10-2021, 08:48 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Seems to me that Josh wouldn't be playing due to jet lag and being generally exhausted from the Olympics, but what do I know.
Scott, he never played....well, 4 minutes. So I dont think that's cause for exhaustion, but what do I know.
(08-10-2021, 06:28 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]The other possible way (and probably more likely way) to do a LM deal is trade matching (the TPE isn’t necessarily used). FG has pointed out that LM is subject to BYC since Chicago isn’t using cap space to sign him. In fact, they are within about $18mm of the LT without counting LM’s hold. So, any trade matching salary has to come in safely under the tax. There are only so many ways this can happen. The good news is Chicago has a $5mm TPE, Dallas has a $10.865mm TPE and the DeRozan deal is still not official. SA could take on some salary Chicago doesn’t want (Maxi?) to help facilitate the deal. Maybe the cost of doing that is Dallas taking something SA doesn’t want into our TPE. Oh, and what compensation has to go to Chicago? They want a first rounder (reportedly). Does Green count? Is that why he isn’t playing in SL?
Two things: 1) my understanding was that Chicago did not want *any* salary back in an LM SnT, so I find it rather befuddling that a trade via trade matching would be more probable. 2) In your three-way trade, if San Antonio is getting our TPE instead of Chicago, how are we getting Lauri? I think I understand it, but not quite.
Two more things: 1) I'm not sure Lauri is worth a bigger contract, plus, losing Green, plus, losing Maxi, plus, taking on more salary which takes us toward the tax. 2) I'm not sure at that point that Pop doesn't say, "Eff that, just give us Lauri. We want to beat out Dallas for him anyway."
I'd rather have Maxi than LM. Maxi, FRP and using our TPE to take on dead weight...hell to the no.
(08-10-2021, 09:18 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I'd rather have Maxi than LM. Maxi, FRP and using our TPE to take on dead weight...hell to the no.
Would be pretty strange that LM would be that worthwhile (if you don't use the TPE on him, it's presumably because he and his agent insist on more) when, when we had money to sign him outright, we didn't want him. If we can get him for the TPE (with the salary increases from the first year, which is the only one that has to fit), he's a bargain in spite of the poor fit. If we have to pay more than that, it's not nearly as attractive.
(08-10-2021, 08:51 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]It's tough sitting on the bench and watching your teammates go to war....
While you and Bama's rejoinders were good for a knee slap, not to mention a snark against one of our boys in blue, he had the whole experience of being halfway around the world and travelling back to a much different time zone.
While I find it
annoying that Josh isn't playing in the summer league, I don't see anything
unusual about it. We just all like our conspiracy theories. "This can only mean one thing."
(08-10-2021, 09:56 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]While you and Bama's rejoinders were good for a knee slap, not to mention a snark against one of our boys in blue, he had the whole experience of being halfway around the world and travelling back to a much different time zone.
While I find it annoying that Josh isn't playing in the summer league, I don't see anything unusual about it. We just all like our conspiracy theories. "This can only mean one thing."
Supposedly there’s a heck of a lot of sex that goes on at the Olympics too. Even for scrubs. Gotta figure the kid is wiped from that exercise if not from the actual competition.
Sources extremely close to the Dallas Mavericks franchise say that, when questioned about the rumors swirling about a frenzy of late free agency transactions, one voice with this familiar statement emerged: “We Ain’t Done Yet.” Story posting soon.
More - sources intimately familiar with the situation also tell me that if Monta Ellis does indeed decide to return to play in the NBA that, if the team has interest, the Dallas Mavericks are considered strong frontrunners for the Mississippi Bullet’s services.
(08-10-2021, 09:52 PM)Scott41theMav Wrote: [ -> ]If we can get him for the TPE (with the salary increases from the first year, which is the only one that has to fit), he's a bargain in spite of the poor fit. If we have to pay more than that, it's not nearly as attractive.
Yours is a smart analysis imo. It basically limits the Mavs possibilities with LM to ....
1 no salary match to CHI, therefore it's a TPE deal by Dallas, PLUS
2 to be a TPE deal, LM has to agree to a starting salary that doesn't satisfy LM's prior expectations (which might then make him and his salary tolerable to the Mavs), PLUS
3 the Bulls have to be willing to accept something less than the package of "no salary, plus 1st R pick" they are demanding, since Dallas can't do a 1st R pick, so the closest is either a really low salary player who they might want from Dallas (if there is one) or a 2nd R pick.
It's a very limited range of possibilities for all the parties, if he's to be a Mav within those parameters. Technically doable, however. But not really ideal for any of them.
But if the next best option is going to be a 9M one year QO deal, after which he walks as a FA from CHI and goes to the highest bidder (with Mavs essentially unable to bid)? Then perhaps there's a possibility they all settle for a compromise like this.
That contract for LM would be (at best) a 3 year (plus a PO) that totals 34.5M over those 3 years.
Actually this could be a very clever negotiation strategy by the Mavs.
A) generate a TPE above MLE level.
B) try to convince value S&T targets to accept a 3year (due to S&T) salary that fits into TPE ("we'd love to pay you more, but we just can't")
Ensures that player/agent need to make a yes/no decision rather than trying to squeeze for more salary.
(08-10-2021, 08:55 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Two things: 1) my understanding was that Chicago did not want *any* salary back in an LM SnT, so I find it rather befuddling that a trade via trade matching would be more probable. 2) In your three-way trade, if San Antonio is getting our TPE instead of Chicago, how are we getting Lauri? I think I understand it, but not quite.
What I was thinking is we'd add Dallas to the big DeRozan trade and make it a 3 team deal providing bigger numbers to apply the 125% buffer to. Let's do Powell instead of Maxi as it makes fewer people upset (but I think there are Maxi based versions that work also).
The big trade is the same as it is now except you add Powell for LM with LM signing for $15mm (I think there is a range of numbers that work, so if you don't like $15mm use $14mm or $16mm). LM counts at $15mm of incoming for Dallas, but only $7.5mm of outgoing for Chicago. The question is can Chicago take in DR and DP making $38mm while sending out Young, Aminu and Markkanen at only $7.5mm for a total of $31.9mm. Yes, with room to spare. The SA part of the deal hasn't changed to this point. Dallas would need to renounce the hold on Redick. Otherwise, I don't believe I've taken anyone over the LT (but I certainly could have missed some salary with so many deals not finalized yet).
Next, you do a second deal with Powell going from Chi to SA, Aminu going from SA to the Dallas TPE and Green going to Chicago. I don't know if SA needs compensation for this, but for now, let's keep it simple and assume two years of mediocre Powell is roughly the same as one year of bad Aminu. No one is being aggregated, so, not problem "re-trading" Powell and Aminu. Chicago doesn't get much salary, but does get the first rounder they are looking for (kind of) in Green. Maybe SA likes Green? In that case they get Green and Chicago keeps the 2025 first rounder they sent in the original deal. Powell and Aminu trade match for SA and Dallas can take in Aminu without sending out matching salary because of the TPE. There is room to add another outgoing player from Dallas. There is also room to make this Maxi/Green instead of Powell/Green. The net result of the two deals as written is:
SA trades DeRozan
SA receives Powell/Young a first and two seconds from Chi
Chi receives DeRozan/Green
Chi trades Young, the picks, Aminu (already agreed to) and LM (for Green)
Dallas trades Powell/Green
Dallas receives Markkanen/Aminu (the latter signed for one year instead of Powell signed for two...saves LT in 2022).
(08-11-2021, 03:20 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Yours is a smart analysis imo. It basically limits the Mavs possibilities with LM to ....
1 no salary match to CHI, therefore it's a TPE deal by Dallas, PLUS
2 to be a TPE deal, LM has to agree to a starting salary that doesn't satisfy LM's prior expectations (which might then make him and his salary tolerable to the Mavs), PLUS
3 the Bulls have to be willing to accept something less than the package of "no salary, plus 1st R pick" they are demanding, since Dallas can't do a 1st R pick, so the closest is either a really low salary player who they might want from Dallas (if there is one) or a 2nd R pick.
It's a very limited range of possibilities for all the parties, if he's to be a Mav within those parameters. Technically doable, however. But not really ideal for any of them.
But if the next best option is going to be a 9M one year QO deal, after which he walks as a FA from CHI and goes to the highest bidder (with Mavs essentially unable to bid)? Then perhaps there's a possibility they all settle for a compromise like this.
That contract for LM would be (at best) a 3 year (plus a PO) that totals 34.5M over those 3 years.
If Nico holds the line here I LOVE it. I hope if nothing else, he is incredibly mindful of not signing any deals that aren't future assets (in the net).