MavsBoard

(08-08-2021, 06:09 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]But I still think the problem is deep hate for Powell. You wanna pay to get rid of him not to get White.

Haha. Dan is like the #1 proponent of Dwight Powell in the world. I don't think this is it.

(08-08-2021, 06:11 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Haha. Dan is like the #1 proponent of Dwight Powell in the world. I don't think this is it.

Mak has a spaceship too?

If getting rid of Powell isn´t the point here, why is he included, when he is a negativ in the trade.

If we get a real upgrade (Tobi?) I won´t say anything against letting him go. But I think we are better with him than without him.

White’s name is coming up a lot. 

How good is this guy? I’d like to hear a comp up and a comp down. Trading Maxi is quite a big hurdle for me.

(08-08-2021, 06:18 PM)Mapka Wrote: [ -> ]Mak has a spaceship too?

If getting rid of Powell isn´t the point here, why is he included, when he is a negativ in the trade.

If we get a real upgrade (Tobi?) I won´t say anything against letting him go. But I think we are better with him than without him.

We need him for salary matching.  Being better with him than without him does not mean he is worth his contract.  Regardless, we need a two way play maker way more than what we are getting from Powell

(08-08-2021, 06:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Dan, I'm curious about your current thoughts regarding Powell's potential on this team. 

I'm asking because I personally see one interpretation of the roster's current state as them planning to give him a chance to win his job back - the one he had the season before last. I'm not confident about that at all, but it has certainly seemed like a possibility to me and I've seen others suggest it, too. 

However, if you of all people have given up on it, then I suppose that's probably the last bit of info I need to officially move on.

Quick bit of business first...

mvossman is right, he's needed for salary match and we don't need five centers.

Mapka, if you think I'm a Powell hater, you are either new or not paying any attention to the things I write about Powell.  I should probably start a thread on my feelings about Powell (wait, I did that already).


OK, with that out of the way, I'm still a Powell homer and think pre-injury Powell was wildly underrated here.  I like Maxi too and get the same reaction whenever I include him in a deal.  But, there are only so many ways to match a $15mm player right now.  As we stand today, we have five centers and are probably short a guy who can rotate with Luka and Brunson as at least being able to bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense.  Powell is just more logical in this deal (from the Dallas standpoint) than Maxi.

Two other notes.  We will be deep into the LT next season and Powell is pretty expensive for a backup C.  If I'm his agent, I don't want him in Dallas if they are going to dump him (I'd prefer not to lose my percentage on $5mm).  In SA there is more of a chance pick up his full guarantee and maybe even keep him beyond that.  I think Schwartz puts both clients in better position in a Powell/White swap.

(08-08-2021, 06:39 PM)DallasBasketball Wrote: [ -> ]White’s name is coming up a lot. 

How good is this guy? I’d like to hear a comp up and a comp down. Trading Maxi is quite a big hurdle for me.

There are 2 White's. Derrick and Coby.

Derrick White has been with SA for 4 years and is 6'4", 190 lbs at 27yo. He's been a decent defender and a pretty good ball handler/off guard/scorer:
Box score stats for 20-21 season:
15ppg, 3.5apg, 3rpg, .346 3P% on 6.8 attempts, .486 2P% on 5.8 attempts, .851 FT% on 3.2 attempts, .503 eFG%, .7spg, 1bpg, 1.3topg in 29.6mpg

82games.com stats for 20-21 season stats:
http://www.82games.com/2021/20SAS4.HTM#onoff
basketball-reference.com stats:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...ede01.html
I see him maybe in the mold of a Satoransky, a new thing I hadn't seen or paid attention to on bb-ref.com is Similarity Scores. Read a bit of the explanation and got tired head halfway through, but some notable similarities (Thru 3 years) that we would know are: Adrian Griffin, Travis Best, Kyle Lowry, Kelenna Azubuike, Lenny Wilkins and Charlie Bell.

He's improved his numbers every year he's been in the league. He's survived a tough coach in Popovich and moved from PG to SG 2 years ago. He's had a lot of foot issues mostly: https://www.foxsports.com/nba/derrick-wh...r-injuries and has only played in 17, 67, 68 and 36 games from earliest to most recent. That's not good.  

Coby White is more an offensive threat and less a defender to this point in his career. At 6'5", 195 lbs and 21 yo he is 5 2/3ish years younger than Derrick, and has been in the league for 2 years.
Box score stats for 20-21 season:
15.1ppg, 4.8apg, 4.1rpg, .359 3P% on 6.6 attempts, .473 2P% on 6.5 attempts, .901 FT% on 2.1 attempts, .506 eFG%, .6spg, .2bpg, 2.3topg in 31.2mpg

82games.com stats for 20-21 season stats:
http://www.82games.com/1920/19CHI3.HTM
basketball-reference.com stats:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...eco01.html
He's more on (hehe, I said moron) Luka's timeline that could be a running mate through his early career. He's being totally squeezed out in Chi with all their G acquisitions (maybe Ball gets reversed and they will need him much more). Not shown to be a true PG so far, but has good handles with plenty of room to improve. He's played in 65 games last year and 69 this year, so not as much an injury concern. Coby has much better accuracy in his midrange game than Derrick, but neither uses it very much. Derrick is 10% better than Coby from 0-3 ft.

I think there is really good opportunity with both guys if we could get 1, actually moreso than if we had gotten Lowry, IMO, due to age and contract.

(08-08-2021, 08:51 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]There are 2 White's. Derrick and Coby.

Derrick White has been with SA for 4 years and is 6'4", 190 lbs at 27yo. He's been a decent defender and a pretty good ball handler/off guard/scorer:
Box score stats for 20-21 season:
15ppg, 3.5apg, 3rpg, .346 3P% on 6.8 attempts, .486 2P% on 5.8 attempts, .851 FT% on 3.2 attempts, .503 eFG%, .7spg, 1bpg, 1.3topg in 29.6mpg

82games.com stats for 20-21 season stats:
http://www.82games.com/2021/20SAS4.HTM#onoff
basketball-reference.com stats:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...ede01.html
I see him maybe in the mold of a Satoransky, a new thing I hadn't seen or paid attention to on bb-ref.com is Similarity Scores. Read a bit of the explanation and got tired head halfway through, but some notable similarities (Thru 3 years) that we would know are: Adrian Griffin, Travis Best, Kyle Lowry, Kelenna Azubuike, Lenny Wilkins and Charlie Bell.

He's improved his numbers every year he's been in the league. He's survived a tough coach in Popovich and moved from PG to SG 2 years ago. He's had a lot of foot issues mostly: https://www.foxsports.com/nba/derrick-wh...r-injuries and has only played in 17, 67, 68 and 36 games from earliest to most recent. That's not good.  

Coby White is more an offensive threat and less a defender to this point in his career. At 6'5", 195 lbs and 21 yo he is 5 2/3ish years younger than Derrick, and has been in the league for 2 years.
Box score stats for 20-21 season:
15.1ppg, 4.8apg, 4.1rpg, .359 3P% on 6.6 attempts, .473 2P% on 6.5 attempts, .901 FT% on 2.1 attempts, .506 eFG%, .6spg, .2bpg, 2.3topg in 31.2mpg

82games.com stats for 20-21 season stats:
http://www.82games.com/1920/19CHI3.HTM
basketball-reference.com stats:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/pla...eco01.html
He's more on (hehe, I said moron) Luka's timeline that could be a running mate through his early career. He's being totally squeezed out in Chi with all their G acquisitions (maybe Ball gets reversed and they will need him much more). Not shown to be a true PG so far, but has good handles with plenty of room to improve. He's played in 65 games last year and 69 this year, so not as much an injury concern. Coby has much better accuracy in his midrange game than Derrick, but neither uses it very much. Derrick is 10% better than Coby from 0-3 ft.

I think there is really good opportunity with both guys if we could get 1, actually moreso than if we had gotten Lowry, IMO, due to age and contract.

I think you are underselling the giant chasm difference in defense between the two.  Derrick is more than "a decent defender" and Coby has been terrible in that area.  He is young and may improve some, but he is not someone I would want to put next to Luka (or Brunson) right now due to defense.  He would be less of a current fit and more of a project.

I would be more interested in Derrick as legit potential starter next to Luka (and our point of attack defender) but am concerned with the injury history.

(08-08-2021, 09:32 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]I think you are underselling the giant chasm difference in defense between the two.  Derrick is more than "a decent defender" and Coby has been terrible in that area.  He is young and may improve some, but he is not someone I would want to put next to Luka (or Brunson) right now due to defense.  He would be less of a current fit and more of a project.

I would be more interested in Derrick as legit potential starter next to Luka (and our point of attack defender) but am concerned with the injury history.

Interesting, do you see him closer to a Brogdon than Satoransky then? I hesitated to oversell any ability for either player, but have seen more of Derrick outside of Mavs games than I have Coby being a fan of the Spurs too (not that I have watched much more than Mavs games for either). I do agree that Derrick is the better player (currently and for our current needs), but it's hard to pass up that age and possible improvement from Coby. I think either player gives us the playmaking we desperately need to help Luka though. Would it be accurate to say they are basically the difference (on a lesser scale) from Dragic to Lowry?

(08-08-2021, 09:43 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]being a fan of the Spurs too

Spurs fan?

Are the Mavs interested in Derrick White? How about in Dejounte Murray?

Can they convince SA to do a trade of KP and Brunson for White and Murray? Will you be okay with it?

Danny White is a multi-tool player. He runs the offense really well. He can light up the score board. And he can also be your punter. Great at fake punts.

(08-08-2021, 09:43 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Interesting, do you see him closer to a Brogdon than Satoransky then? I hesitated to oversell any ability for either player, but have seen more of Derrick outside of Mavs games than I have Coby being a fan of the Spurs too (not that I have watched much more than Mavs games for either). I do agree that Derrick is the better player (currently and for our current needs), but it's hard to pass up that age and possible improvement from Coby. I think either player gives us the playmaking we desperately need to help Luka though. Would it be accurate to say they are basically the difference (on a lesser scale) from Dragic to Lowry?

He is closer to satoransky than Brogdon, but better.  I think he can be a legit starter.  Coby seems more destine to 6th man type role as I don't think his defense will ever play well as a starter.

(08-08-2021, 10:56 PM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]He is closer to satoransky than Brogdon, but better.  I think he can be a legit starter.  Coby seems more destine to 6th man type role as I don't think his defense will ever play well as a starter.

I don't understand the extended conversations and debate about Derrick White.

As a team trying to rebuild, I'd think the Spurs would prefer to keep the few talents they have, and try to add to them rather than give them away. He is a Spur starter, and I've seen no indication they are hoping to move him. There's no threat of Spurs losing him sometime soon in free agency. Did I miss something?

(08-08-2021, 10:26 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]Spurs fan?

Not sure how many times I have to say it, but yes. I lived in SA for 8 years growing up and started playing basketball there. Left for here the year before David Robinson debuted there. I’m also a Rockets fan because I was born in Houston. Have a few nephews who are Thunder fans so I like paying attention to them as well. I’ve gone to a few Mavs vs Thunder games with one of my nephews in OKC for the last 3 years (he’s come down here for a game here too every year).


I will root for those teams as long as they aren’t playing us or getting in our way of accomplishing our goals.

(08-08-2021, 11:24 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand the extended conversations and debate about Derrick White.

As a team trying to rebuild, I'd think the Spurs would prefer to keep the few talents they have, and try to add to them rather than give them away. He is a Spur starter, and I've seen no indication they are hoping to move him. There's no threat of Spurs losing him sometime soon in free agency. Did I miss something?

The idea stems from getting them enough money to make a legit offer to Markannen, who they have been linked to as wanting. That gets them younger, but in order to do that they need to give something up to us. With White being 27, that’s hardly an age for a rebuilding team.

(08-09-2021, 12:29 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I’m also a Rockets fan

(08-08-2021, 08:23 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Quick bit of business first...

mvossman is right, he's needed for salary match and we don't need five centers.

Mapka, if you think I'm a Powell hater, you are either new or not paying any attention to the things I write about Powell.  I should probably start a thread on my feelings about Powell (wait, I did that already).


OK, with that out of the way, I'm still a Powell homer and think pre-injury Powell was wildly underrated here.  I like Maxi too and get the same reaction whenever I include him in a deal.  But, there are only so many ways to match a $15mm player right now.  As we stand today, we have five centers and are probably short a guy who can rotate with Luka and Brunson as at least being able to bring the ball up the court and initiate the offense.  Powell is just more logical in this deal (from the Dallas standpoint) than Maxi.

Two other notes.  We will be deep into the LT next season and Powell is pretty expensive for a backup C.  If I'm his agent, I don't want him in Dallas if they are going to dump him (I'd prefer not to lose my percentage on $5mm).  In SA there is more of a chance pick up his full guarantee and maybe even keep him beyond that.  I think Schwartz puts both clients in better position in a Powell/White swap.

I'm an idiot for not seeing you are trying to get D. White. I was thinking Coby.

That makes more sense and less. I can see why Powell is included now.

But I don't want this player. It's Delon/JRich again.

About the centers. We have a four bigs rotation of KP, Powell, Maxi and WCS. We will see DFS get some time at the 4 against some teams and Boban will fill in if needed.

That's rather thin to me as I expect KP to sit out some btbs at least. If we give away Powell, we need another playable PF.

Cuban and company arrived to Slovenia. If I was Luka, I would say: "thank you for the offer. I will consider it in next few weeks". Would that be strong enough warning?  

https://www.24ur.com/sport/kosarka/cuban_3.html

Derrick White is way better than Satoransky. What's up with you guys?