MavsBoard

(02-14-2022, 07:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Wanted off of KP, but didn't want to have to pay to do it.  Dallas was pessimistic there was any market for KP until Toronto/Washington showed interest right before the deadline.   Toronto backed off due to health concerns.

Thanks for the summary. 


Two things I am coming to terms with in this situation:

1) KP's value is almost absolutely nothing. 

2) This is because a) his health is a huge concern long term for basically every team and b) even when he plays he is frankly not that impactful.


I think WAS traded for KP for basically only one reason: They knew DB and SD were never going to be happy in their organization again and KP gives them something like a 2% chance to get a good player while mostly just injecting artificial and fake hype/hope into a franchise that needs to keep its fans engaged in any way possible.

(02-14-2022, 07:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Urgently needed First Step toward significant change to the roster.

Too much risk in waiting until summer for better offers.

Wanted off of KP, but didn't want to have to pay to do it.  Dallas was pessimistic there was any market for KP until Toronto/Washington showed interest right before the deadline.   Toronto backed off due to health concerns.  He doesn't define the Toronto package, but it is easily surmised (me talking now, not Stein) that Dallas was paying the pick since the alternative was "luxury tax hell" by acquiring two undesirable contracts.  You don't pick luxury tax hell if the alternative is cap space AND you get a pick.

Deal worked because Washington was just as eager to dump their two guys

Dallas hopes to rehab both to what they were when they earned those deals.  If they do, each is more trade-able than KP was.

Signing DFS and hopefully signing Brunson this summer puts them in a stronger negotiating position should teams come calling wanting those players.  His mention of Brunson wasn't in the sense that it was eminent or even on the table.  More in the vein that a rebuild is needed and that was another logical path if the KP thing didn't work out.

Sad chapter for Dallas.  Swung big and missed.  Thought about bringing KP off the bench in the playoffs, but would have been too much of a detriment to value to do so on such a big stage.

Thanks for the recap.   I assume coming off the bench for the playoffs was the old regime and not the current one, right?

I don't have a problem with the Mavs moving KP.  Time will tell if they sold at the right time.   Their are a lot of guys who at one time were untradeable at one time.    Chris Paul being the gold standard.   I have no idea what type of conversations the Mavs have had.   Maybe they figured there was no way out and they had to swallow hard and hope they can rehabilitate to smaller bad contracts.

As is typical for a message board, there were at least 3 pages of posts blaming the Mavericks for not taking the Toronto trade.

Message boards would be dead space if it weren't for false assumptions.

(02-14-2022, 07:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Thought about bringing KP off the bench in the playoffs, but would have been too much of a detriment to value to do so on such a big stage.

I mean, this should pretty much say it all, right?

(02-14-2022, 07:27 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Thought about bringing KP off the bench in the playoffs, but would have been too much of a detriment to value to do so on such a big stage.

The crazy thing is that it is hard to imagine his value being even lower!

(02-14-2022, 09:58 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]The crazy thing is that it is hard to imagine his value being even lower!

Yeah. The bottom line for me is that the team will never again have to balance "what is right for the team right now" vs. "what do we have to do to make sure KP is happy" vs. "how do we perpetuate the myth that he's a future star so we can get off of him?"

It's over.

(02-14-2022, 09:03 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]As is typical for a message board, there were at least 3 pages of posts blaming the Mavericks for not taking the Toronto trade.

Message boards would be dead space if it weren't for false assumptions.

Right, so annoying. Remember the rumours about the Mavs trading their 1st round pick for a player from overseas that didn´t even want to play in the NBA anymore or that they traded their 1st round pick for a suicidal cocaine addict or when they allegedly paid teams to trade down in the draft and then tried to convinced an adult to sign with them by showing them comics.

Imagine if only half of that sh*t was as true as the Mavs really wanting to draft Giannis, but then did not because somebody in the sales department already called himself the greek freak Cuban overruled Donnie.

(02-14-2022, 10:12 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Right, so annoying. Remember the rumours about the Mavs trading their 1st round pick for a player from overseas that didn´t even want to play in the NBA anymore or that they traded their 1st round pick for a suicidal cocaine addict or when they allegedly paid teams to trade down in the draft and then tried to convinced an adult to sign with them by showing them comics.

Imagine if only half of that sh*t was as true as the Mavs really wanting to draft Giannis, but then did not because somebody in the sales department already called himself the greek freak Cuban overruled Donnie.

All of that was awful, dude. We all agree.

So not only were WE the ones who were supposed to throw in a pick for the KP to Toronto trade, THEY  were the ones who backed out.  So there is no more debate of "we should have taken this deal", the only debate is if we should have moved on from KP in the first place or if we should have cashed in on Brunson and I think we made the right decision there.  We're paying for the sins of a past management group giving out a max contract to the wrong player (a contract most on this board were ok with aside from the lack of medical protections) and now have to pay for two smaller sins of management from a different team, it's a step forward.

I'm so glad the KP era is over.

(02-14-2022, 10:12 AM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Right, so annoying.

Glad you agree.

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(02-14-2022, 10:03 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah. The bottom line for me is that the team will never again have to balance "what is right for the team right now" vs. "what do we have to do to make sure KP is happy" vs. "how do we perpetuate the myth that he's a future star so we can get off of him?"

It's over.

Rick putting KP in the corner and playing a freakin' zone with Boban during the playoffs was simply him going with the first of your three options.

Kidd this year was juggling the last two.

Now it's all over and I'm grateful for that fact.

(02-14-2022, 09:03 AM)Winter Wrote: [ -> ]As is typical for a message board, there were at least 3 pages of posts blaming the Mavericks for not taking the Toronto trade.

Message boards would be dead space if it weren't for false assumptions.

Just like the 3 pages of trying to lighten the hit by talk of unguaranteed contracts.

(02-14-2022, 10:30 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]giving out a max contract to the wrong player (a contract most on this board were ok with aside from the lack of medical protections)

Yep, this is actually THE error, the one the Mavs could have seen and prepared for. 

1) Trading for KP? 100% get it.

2) Giving KP the contract? 100% get it.

3) Not covering your butt with medical protections? This is the mistake, especially in hindsight but one that was there to see.

(02-14-2022, 10:47 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Just like the 3 pages of trying to lighten the hit by talk of unguaranteed contracts.

My feelings on this trade don't depend in any way on the minutia of these two contracts, but it is interesting to think about how that stuff might/might not be helpful now that the Mavs have them.

(02-14-2022, 10:30 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]So not only were WE the ones who were supposed to throw in a pick for the KP to Toronto trade

That is not true. It was Toronto offering the pick and it was Toronto backing out

(02-14-2022, 10:30 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]So not only were WE the ones who were supposed to throw in a pick for the KP to Toronto trade

Opinion, not fact, let's not have another 3 pages discussing it, good?

(02-14-2022, 10:54 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Opinion, not fact, let's not have another 3 pages discussing it, good?

Fair enough, still have folks though acting like the opposite is true without any real definitive proof.

(02-14-2022, 10:47 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, this is actually THE error, the one the Mavs could have seen and prepared for. 

1) Trading for KP? 100% get it.

2) Giving KP the contract? 100% get it.

3) Not covering your butt with medical protections? This is the mistake, especially in hindsight but one that was there to see.

Perfect take. This was heavily discussed back then too, probably about 3 pages worth of content.

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(02-14-2022, 10:56 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Fair enough, still have folks though acting like the opposite is true without any real definitive proof.

Yep, some people match other people's confidence to make a point.

(02-14-2022, 10:57 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Yep, some people match other people's confidence to make a point.

So sounds like we all confidently say that the package is unknown as opposed to simply saying and agreeing with people saying "that's not true", ya?

(02-14-2022, 11:12 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]So sounds like we all confidently say that the package is unknown as opposed to simply saying and agreeing with people saying "that's not true", ya?

Not sure what is unknown. A credible sources (Fisher) reported what Toronto offered. Saw also other sources saying the same. I haven't seen any credible source claiming it was the other way around. In all cases, it was Toronto backing out, not Dallas choosing one offer over the other

(02-14-2022, 10:54 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Opinion, not fact,

I mean, at the root of all this is a fact, right? Not an opinion? You can fairly say that we don't know enough now (and might never know enough) to definitively reach that fact, but there's a fact there to discover. 

This could be incorrect, because this place has been a whirlwind for the past 2-3 days and I might've missed something, but it seems to me like one, vague comment from KOC (brought here by a poster who goes out of his way to make fun of him and discredit him about everything else, no less) is the only source of this idea that Toronto somehow wanted to PAY a 1st rounder to Dallas for the privilege of eating the Porzingis contract. Have we heard/ready this from anybody else? I'm genuinely asking. 

Personally, I have been shocked since seeing that pop up, because it doesn't make sense. Maybe it's true, but it's clear to me that the pieces missing from that rumor would have a real impact on what we'd ultimately think about it. KP is not worth a 1st, period. We know TOR thought Dragic was worth something, as evidenced by the non-stop negotiating through the media we've seen all season, since FA last summer. What was it that they wanted from Dallas that had them negotiating to add a first? Brunson? DFS? Both? We just don't know. 

Or, did that one KOC line get it backwards? That's the first thing I thought of, actually. 

Since then, it seems like more and more people at least as reliable as KOC and probably more are making it a point to contradict the specific notion that there was a deal for Dallas to get a 1st out of TOR for Porzingis that they turned down.

Are we all predisposed to connect dots in a way that makes more sense to us? ABSOLUTELY! But, does one of those scenarios make more sense objectively than the other? Would YOU pay a 1st for Porzingis (while simultaneously offering major financial relief to his old team)? I wouldn't.

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(02-14-2022, 11:20 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]A credible sources (Fisher) reported what Toronto offered

Ok, so this might move the needle for me. What did he say, and where did he say it? Was the entire deal laid out?

(02-14-2022, 11:12 AM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]So sounds like we all confidently say that the package is unknown as opposed to simply saying and agreeing with people saying "that's not true", ya?

If all that was said is the full deal is unknown, you wouldn't have heard a peep out of me. Can't speak for others.