MavsBoard

(11-17-2021, 12:52 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]JJB definitely feels more appropriate than Peja imo.

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Damn, Rolando Blackman was actually born in Panama.

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Gal Mekel probably lurking on this board right now pounding his keyboard in anger.

Barea is Puerto Rican - he's a natural born American citizen, not an 'international' player.

(11-17-2021, 01:21 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]Barea is Puerto Rican - he's a natural born American citizen, not an 'international' player.

Makes sense, but Puerto Rico has its own Olympic team and its own basketball team.

(11-17-2021, 12:47 PM)StrandedOnBeauboisHill Wrote: [ -> ]Wiki also includes Shawn Bradley as a German born player and Raja Bell.

Can't forget about fan favorite Wang Zhizhi too.

Made me think of Chris Kaman. Who for some reason ended up playing for Germany. From Michigan. Doesn´t speak the language. Apparently his great grand-parents are from Germany.

Thats a LOT of foreign players. So many that a couple of pretty good ones might not even make the team in this exercise. 

I have a sense that this is unusual. Maybe not unique, but unusual. Have most teams had that many foreign players through the years?

(11-17-2021, 01:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Thats a LOT of foreign players. So many that a couple of pretty good ones might not even make the team in this exercise. 

I have a sense that this is unusual. Maybe not unique, but unusual. Have most teams had that many foreign players through the years?

And a follow up question, I wonder how many teams would have their international players team be better than their national players team? 

Mavs might be unique in that regard, although NBA history isn't my strong suit.

(11-17-2021, 02:03 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]And a follow up question, I wonder how many teams would have their international players team be better than their national players team? 

Mavs might be unique in that regard, although NBA history isn't my strong suit.

This is astute. 

Much more astute than my point/question, and oozing with both astonishing clarity and rare style. Well done.

I WILL NOW LIKE IT!

(11-17-2021, 02:03 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]And a follow up question, I wonder how many teams would have their international players team be better than their national players team? 

Mavs might be unique in that regard, although NBA history isn't my strong suit.

Maybe the Spurs if Tim Duncan counts as an international (Virgin Islands). Add Parker and Ginobili as legit all NBA talents. And solid role players like Diaw, Splitter, Mills, Belinelli, Bertans. Just to name a few.
Still leaves plently of talented US players that would probably combine for a better rotation.

(11-17-2021, 01:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Thats a LOT of foreign players. So many that a couple of pretty good ones might not even make the team in this exercise. 

I have a sense that this is unusual. Maybe not unique, but unusual. Have most teams had that many foreign players through the years?

I suspect that if you include players like Peja in Dallas, most teams would have similar numbers just because back end guys like Melli or Campazzo get passed around a lot as trade filler. Dallas, I think, feels unusual because of the number of top-end foreign players. I mean if you replace Peja with Blackman in the original post then that's arguably the same set as 'greatest Dallas players all-time by position'.

Other than Houston with Hakeem and Yao Ming, I'm drawing a blank on another team with any equivalence to Dallas with Dirk then Luka as franchise cornerstones--and Hakeem and Yao Ming's supporting casts were considerably more 'American' than Dirk and Luka's (i.e., where Dirk had Nash, Hakeem had Drexler; where Luka has KP, Yao Min had Mcgrady, etc).

(11-17-2021, 02:13 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]Other than Houston with Hakeem and Yao Ming, I'm drawing a blank on another team with any equivalence to Dallas with Dirk then Luka as franchise cornerstones--and Hakeem and Yao Ming's supporting casts were considerably more 'American' than Dirk and Luka's (i.e., where Dirk had Nash, Hakeem had Drexler; where Luka has KP, Yao Min had Mcgrady, etc).

This is a great way to to cut to the heart of it!

(11-17-2021, 02:12 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the Spurs if Tim Duncan counts as an international (Virgin Islands). Add Parker and Ginobili as legit all NBA talents. And solid role players like Diaw, Splitter, Mills, Belinelli, Bertans. Just to name a few.
Still leaves plently of talented US players that would probably combine for a better rotation.

Ya, SA was who I immediately went to as a competitor to our team. LaL? If you count Kobe as foreign?

Nets had Petrovic and Kirilenko, that’s a decent start.

(11-17-2021, 02:12 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe the Spurs if Tim Duncan counts as an international (Virgin Islands). Add Parker and Ginobili as legit all NBA talents. And solid role players like Diaw, Splitter, Mills, Belinelli, Bertans. Just to name a few.
Still leaves plently of talented US players that would probably combine for a better rotation.

I would like to acknowledge the high quiality of this post. However, due to the Spurs related content, I can't get my pointer finger to press the button on the mouse when I hover over "like" on that post.

So we've got Dirk, Hakeem, Yao Ming. All agreed. 

Are we allowed to imagine Petrovic not dying young?

Are we allowed to imagine pre-injury (as in, before he came to the NBA) Sabonis in Portland, or do we have to evaluate him as he was in THIS league?

Also, we need definitive rulings for Duncan, Bryant, etc.

(11-17-2021, 02:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]This is astute. 

Much more astute than my point/question, and oozing with both astonishing clarity and rare style. Well done.

I WILL NOW LIKE IT!

Ha, thanks KL!  I have to admit, I actually got the idea from a conversation with Boban while we were vacationing in Milwaukee.  Hope that doesn't change your opinion of my post...

(11-17-2021, 02:13 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]I suspect that if you include players like Peja in Dallas

Yeah, I think it should be about the player's quality during his/her tenure with the team.

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(11-17-2021, 02:21 PM)Jmaciscool Wrote: [ -> ]I have to admit, I actually got the idea from a conversation with Boban while we were vacationing in Milwaukee. 

You got to talk to Boban!?

Is he tall?

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Do we get to count DFS, since he's from Heaven?

I think there's a version of this convo that boils down to Hakeem vs. Dirk. In that timeline, I think Hakeem is better, but Dallas wins due to Nash and others helping him. 

But, if Tim Duncan is eligible to join a core that includes Parker and Ginobili, both of whom are criminally underrated historically, I think it's kind of a pointless exercise.

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(11-17-2021, 02:21 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Do we get to count DFS, since he's from Heaven?

(11-17-2021, 02:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Also, we need definitive rulings for Duncan, Bryant, etc.

Duncan - born an American citizen, the child of American citizens, lived all his life on American soil (territory), attended American (territory) high school, attended American mainlaind college before going pro.
Bryant - born in Philadelphia to American citizens, attended American high school. Spent some time in Italy as a child.

I don't think either of those are even edge cases.

Edge cases start with someone like Blackman - born a Panamian national, but lived in America from age 8 on - and run up to Hakeem - born and raised in Nigeria, but attended 4 years of American college as prep before going pro.

Personally, I think if they were in America by high school they should count as 'domestic' (since their basketball formation is entirely U.S.) and if they didn't get here until they were legally an adult, then they count as international. (That's also informed by being married to an immigrant--among my in-laws, anyone who came here before ~15 is basically indistinguishable from native-born Americans, those that were older than that when they came to the U.S. are all recognizably immigrants no matter how thoroughly/successfully they've integrated.)

Denver is really top heavy with their group, but:

Mutombo/Jokic/Nene/Vandeweghe/Murray 

If they played in Dikembe's era, that big team would fit right in!