MavsBoard

(08-15-2021, 10:16 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Chicago is at $131 million in taxable salaries. They have $5.5 million in breathing room. They have a $5 million TPE. The reporting has suggested that they will not take on any meaningful salary in a LM deal. Rather than an expensive 3 way deal, the easiest way to a LM trade is using the Dallas ~$11 million TPE or the New Orleans ~$17 million TPE. 

How much will new orleans offer so LM knows how much $ he would need to give up to come here? The Dallas end is likely(should be) set at a max of ~4/$48 million that can fit in the TPE. 

What is the asset(s) Chicago will ask for from DAL/NO? Reports say the Chicago ask is a FRP which we will not pay. 2nd rounder would do it? 

Chicago also needs to think about the Ball tampering penalty which will likely be draft picks

The Chicago Locked On podcast guys are convinced that a former employee, who works for New Orleans now, is responsible for the Ball leak to Shams. Who knows if that’s real, but it would be a theory as to why negotiations are taking so long.

My guess is Chicago and LM want a FRP and at least $15 million per from New Orleans. Dallas is playing hardball and has given a final offer of a 2nd and 4/48. A game of chicken that hopefully ends with us getting a steal

Chi wants a FRP and to take on no money, but where are they if LM signs the QO? If they take back Maxi and Brown ($10.4M) it’s not much different than the $9M QO, except they get 2 players in positions of current need for 1. That gets LM where he wants to go (Dallas) on a contract closer to where he wants to be (his part of the negotiation). 


Dallas and LM have to both squeeze Chi to make this happen. LM can threaten to sign the QO and not show up for camp, further devaluing his trade value while saying he will only accept a trade to Dallas (I understand this doesn’t help Dal to do this, if Chi calls his bluff). Brown is still the hold up in this scenario.

Quote:If you try to trade match LM, then you've blown up the concept of Dragic/LM coming in the same deal.

I’m fine with that in all honesty, and further think the #nicotiator is too. He’ll be fine picking up Dragic if he wants to be here after his buyout whenever it happens.

(08-15-2021, 11:17 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]I’m fine with that in all honesty, and further think the #nicotiator is too. He’ll be fine picking up Dragic if he wants to be here after his buyout whenever it happens.

I tend to agree.  I will be surprised if Green is moved for either.  I will also be disappointed.    Sure they signed Sterling Brown but he is only getting 3 million.    In all honesty, Green should be able to beat him out if it came to that for getting minutes.  If not, that is not a great sign.    

Speaking of Dennis Smith, I am not sure if he really fits well with either Brunson or Luka like Goran would.    I do think he has some upside as a buy low guy, but I am not sure if he is the best fit.  Now if you are just looking for upside and have one roster spot left, I can see the gamble.

I was watching Smith highlights in Detroit on youtube (there aren't many) and I saw this video from a year ago with DSJ an Trae Young.  It is a classic pickup game with hardly any defense being played.  But it just shows you how talented NBA guys are even when they are screwing around. 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIV4w6zJQO8

(08-15-2021, 11:38 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]In all honesty, Green should be able to beat him out if it came to that for getting minutes.  If not, that is not a great sign.

In terms of what that would mean for Green as a prospect here, I agree. Based on the clear motive they're operating under, putting shooters on the floor, I am not sure I share your confidence about Green making it into the rotation. 

If it ends up that Green is behind ALL of THJ, DFS, Bullock and Brown in the rotation, will it be time to look at him in a new light? I like his potential a lot, and he brings a ton of energy to the floor. I'm not down on him at all, but if he's not in the plans for the near future, is now the best time to move him? Will another year of him not being ready to contribute negatively impact his value?

(08-15-2021, 11:46 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]In terms of what that would mean for Green as a prospect here, I agree. Based on the clear motive they're operating under, putting shooters on the floor, I am not sure I share your confidence about Green making it into the rotation. 

If it ends up that Green is behind ALL of THJ, DFS, Bullock and Brown in the rotation, will it be time to look at him in a new light? I like his potential a lot, and he brings a ton of energy to the floor. I'm not down on him at all, but if he's not in the plans for the near future, is now the best time to move him? Will another year of him not being ready to contribute negatively impact his value?

Yes, my view is if Green is not getting consistent minutes next year than that will be a bad sign.  There is no reason why you cannot let him get minutes each game and let him spread his wings a little.  I agree the minutes may be tight, but still he doesn't exactly have the 2020 all star game wings in front of him.   

Here are Green's highlights from the G-league.   He didn't play many games and didn't excel in every game.   I think a sneaky skill he has is he has a really nice feel passing the ball.    I don't think he is a bad of a shooter as his percentage was from last year, but he will need time to improve this part of his game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N9_JJL7H8J4

(08-15-2021, 11:57 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]There is no reason why you cannot let him get minutes each game and let him spread his wings a little.  I agree the minutes may be tight, but still he doesn't exactly have the 2020 all star game wings in front of him.   

Again, I share your optimism for the player in question, but I'm not sure I agree that "there's no reason" to keep him out of the regular rotation. 

All of the players I mentioned earlier are more ready than he, are they not? I can see there being time available for a guy like him if DFS is playing like 50% of his minutes at the 4, but there are people here who are dead-set against that, and we just don't know if that's the plan. If Markkanen is here, it probably isn't. The plan might be for DFS to play almost no minutes at the 4. We just don't know. 

Also, Luka and Brunson will play together, like a lot. To my mind, that means the competition for backup guard minutes is between Burke, Terry, SBrown and Green. I'd bet a lot of money that ability to handle the ball is going to be  one of the chief factors applied there. I like Green more than Burke, and I honestly don't know how well SBrown handles, but I think it's plausible that Green comes in last place in that contest, too. 

Competition is good, so this is a better situation for Green in many ways than one in which he was clearly factored in for a role and depended upon to produce. But, I don't know that the people pissed about how Green didn't pay "enough" last season are going to be super happy this year. 

I don't think I'd spend this asset for either LM or Dragic, but I wouldn't be surprised if not doing so results in a lowering of his value over time, either. 

Who knows, maybe he has added some offensive elements to his game (or learned enough that he'll be allowed to utilize elements he already had in real games) and this will be a breakout year for him.

Re:. DSJ

https://www.detroitbadboys.com/2021/7/15...-interview

"In Detroit, he showed intriguing potential to be Kyle Lowry-type of offensively and defensively pesky guard with surplus athleticism."

That's a poignant and ironic quote of assessment considering who our #1 target was allegedly this off-season.

(08-15-2021, 10:16 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Chicago is at $131 million in taxable salaries.

Not sure about your source, but I think Chicago is actually at 121 mil of salaries. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/chicago-bulls//cap

(08-15-2021, 11:12 AM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]Chi wants a FRP and to take on no money, but where are they if LM signs the QO? If they take back Maxi and Brown ($10.4M) it’s not much different than the $9M QO, except they get 2 players in positions of current need for 1.

Exactly. Maybe that´s where Nico is thinking a little further than Cuban/Donnie. There is no reasonable explanation why the Bulls would turn down Kleber + WCS or Brown for Markkanen. Certainly not this whole "take on no money due to tax threat this year".

UNLESS the Bulls have already promised Millsap the full MLE and Biyombo the BAE (for example), which takes them to $136M right under the luxury tax already. Guess who really really does NOT want Markkanen at $10M on the QO now, cause it comes with another $13M costs in luxury tax this year and after the possible Lavine max extension kicks in and they would fall into the repeater tax category next year. We all know the Bulls owner is notoriously cheap, too.

So with all this information sure the Bulls can pretend that they are happy paying $23M for a season of disgruntled Markkanen and more importantly pay repeater tax for Lavine next year (all while currently being projected to win 39 games by Vegas), because they didn´t get a 1st round pick.

Maybe Nico ain´t buying it. Maybe Nico is stone cold saying: TPE and 2nd round pick. Or have fun explaining to two agents why you are backing out of deals with them for Markkanen, who you dislike. Or go ahead pay $23M for Markkanen this year and another eight figure tax bill next year.

(08-15-2021, 10:37 AM)mvossman Wrote: [ -> ]He did look better in Detroit.  If we don't end up getting Dragic, then he is probably our next best option (baring a trade).  If we do end up with Dragic, I think I would rather take a flyer on Frank.  If we send enough guys out on trades, I would be fine with taking a shot on both.

Hmmm, I’m kinda liking the thought of getting both. Double the chance that someone takes off.

(08-15-2021, 11:46 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]In terms of what that would mean for Green as a prospect here, I agree. Based on the clear motive they're operating under, putting shooters on the floor, I am not sure I share your confidence about Green making it into the rotation. 

If it ends up that Green is behind ALL of THJ, DFS, Bullock and Brown in the rotation, will it be time to look at him in a new light? I like his potential a lot, and he brings a ton of energy to the floor. I'm not down on him at all, but if he's not in the plans for the near future, is now the best time to move him? Will another year of him not being ready to contribute negatively impact his value?

This is how all role players should be viewed...I you can't get 15+ minutes a game then you should be included in a trade for a player who would play regular heavy minutes..

(08-15-2021, 12:46 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Not sure about your source, but I think Chicago is actually at 121 mil of salaries. 

https://www.spotrac.com/nba/chicago-bulls//cap

Yes they are, but they have the MLE and BAE left, which would take them right at the taxline, so now adding Markkanen on the QO would cost them roughly $13M in tax, plus establish them as a repeat offender next season, when the Lavine max extension kicks in (assuming he does stay).

Given their lack of frontcourt depth, do we really believe the Bulls have not secretly negotiated with other FAs already. Maybe promises have been made or at least agents have been told to wait until the Markkanen is resolved with specific numbers communicated. But that´s exactly the reason the Bulls don´t have all the leverage imho: the tax implications.

On the other hand it´s possible the Bulls/Mavs have already agreed on the full TPE + 2nd round pick, because of this scenario, but Markkanen wants more money, and it´s just not there, from the perspective of the Bulls and Mavs, due to the tax implications.

(08-15-2021, 01:02 PM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]This is how all role players should be viewed...I you can't get 15+ minutes a game then you should be included in a trade for a player who would play regular heavy minutes..

Yeah, and I think you'd agree that special considerations should be given for a young guy like Green (or Terry), but if there's not a clear hope for a path to 15+ minutes in the near future, at some point you have to realize that you're just hoping, not building with a purpose. 

The only thing that gives me pause on moving Green, really, is the DFS situation. We don't know if the plan is to extend him, trade him or let him walk. Ditto for Brunson. Those situations have a direct impact on Green's future here, imo. There's simply not enough info available at this time to inform us about the Mavs' thinking re Green.

(08-15-2021, 11:46 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Based on the clear motive they're operating under, putting shooters on the floor, I am not sure I share your confidence about Green making it into the rotation.

I think this is the simplest and clearest argument why JG might be very expendable to the new FO. I love JG and think his defense and BBIQ are great. But if his shooting doesn't fit into the new scheme I totally get them moving along now, especially for someone like LM whose shooting IMMEDIATELY fits.

(08-15-2021, 01:05 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Yes they are, but they have the MLE and BAE left, which would take them right at the taxline, so now adding Markkanen on the QO would cost them roughly $13M in tax, plus establish them as a repeat offender next season, when the Lavine max extension kicks in (assuming he does stay).

Given their lack of frontcourt depth, do we really believe the Bulls have not secretly negotiated with other FAs already. Maybe promises have been made or at least agents have been told to wait until the Markkanen is resolved with specific numbers communicated. But that´s exactly the reason the Bulls don´t have all the leverage imho: the tax implications.

On the other hand it´s possible the Bulls/Mavs have already agreed on the full TPE + 2nd round pick, because of this scenario, but Markkanen wants more money, and it´s just not there, from the perspective of the Bulls and Mavs, due to the tax implications.

Chicago already used their MLE on Caruso. There were talks of a three team trade between LA, Houston and Chicago with Theis to Houston, Caruso to Chicago and TPE to LA but due to BYC issues, Chicago couldn’t take back Caruso with Theis only counting for half of his salary. (Instead Chicago and Houston made a trade which is why they have a $5 million TPE)

(08-15-2021, 01:29 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I think this is the simplest and clearest argument why JG might be very expendable to the new FO. I love JG and think his defense and BBIQ are great. But if his shooting doesn't fit into the new scheme I totally get them moving along now, especially for someone like LM whose shooting IMMEDIATELY fits.

If the deal is with essentially Green for Markennan, I ask, 

‘who is the better player now, and who will be the better player in 4 years?’

If the answer is a. Markennan and b. Green, I hesitate. If the answer is Markennan and Markennan, I pull the trigger.

(08-15-2021, 03:02 PM)DallasBasketball Wrote: [ -> ]If the deal is with essentially Green for Markennan, I ask, 

‘who is the better player now, and who will be the better player in 4 years?’

If the answer is a. Markennan and b. Green, I hesitate. If the answer is Markennan and Markennan, I pull the trigger.

Too bad we don't get to know that before hand. My question is, how is the shot coming along? It took DFS years to build that shot. If it takes years for JG, would he be worth the wait?