(08-05-2021, 03:03 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]https://www.si.com/nba/mavericks/news/go...ency-trade
Mike Fisher says "sources tell DBcom that Doncic has campaigned with management to make this Slovenian partnership happen."
Thanks for finding that quote, Kamm.
I don't quibble with the idea that Luka and Doncic are friends, and that Luka would be fine with playing with Dragic again.
However, I haven't seen any indication that Luka told Nico to make the Dragic acquisition happen, no matter what. Or any indication that he even wants to do that.
The question I am raising is this. It seems that there is a general assumption that it will be a massive offseason failure if the Mavs don't acquire Dragic, whatever it costs, and not least because Luka will be VERY unhappy.
(1). Do we have reason to believe that Luka is that invested in playing with Dragic this season?
(2) Do we have reason to believe that the Mavs think it is extremely important to get Dragic in particular? That he is not just one of a number of old gray mares who ain't what they used to be out there?
I don't present these as rhetorical questions. I don't purport to know the answers, just raising the questions.
(08-05-2021, 03:02 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand this. The Mavs might want Dragic, but they don't actually need him. If a deal doesn't get done, they just move on. Toronto, on the other hand, actually has to pay Dragic (which they seemingly would prefer not to do). Therefore, all the leverage is on the Dallas side--unless there's an unidentified 3rd team looking to pick up Dragic, but in that case it's Dallas and the other team splitting the leverage. Toronto still has none (other than to pull out of any deal entirely and decide to live with Dragic taking up a roster and budget spot).
Now, if Luka were to tell Nico "You *must* get this done", I agree, that would change the dynamic somewhat, but there's no indication that's the case. There's every reason to believe Luka would *like* the Mavs to bring in Dragic, but there's a big difference between preference and demand.
The Mavs desperately need another playmaker, so what are the other options? If you say trade, what team has an extra secondary playmaker that they may not want (other than Toronto)? Dragic makes by far the most sense because anybody else will be more expensive asset to value ratio unless its a free agent. Don't see Jackson coming here and there are reports the Mavs don't want to touch Schroder (probably with good reason).
(08-05-2021, 03:03 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]No, my watching of anything at all that doesn't involve work and family is WAY down from years past
Yeah, I totally get that.
(08-05-2021, 02:47 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Is it too outside of the realm of what's possible to hope that the hold up is that the trade is bigger than we think it is and that it includes Siakam to Dallas?
Probably. But I keep thinking about that random tweet awhile back saying the Wiz were eyeing KP. Then they were connected with DFS more recently. I think they’ve hit the reboot button and will ship Beal when the package is right.
Like many here, I don’t see getting Beal for KP with or without the spare parts Dallas could add. But I can see KP moving to W in a bigger trade. Something like:
KP & Finney-Smith to Wash
Beal to Boston
Jalen Brown and Powell to Toronto
Dragic and Siakam to Dallas
Harrell into Dallas’s TPE (not cause we want him)
Assorted first rounders and filler to balance the equation
(08-05-2021, 03:16 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]there is a general assumption that it will be a massive offseason failure if the Mavs don't acquire Dragic, whatever it costs, and not least because Luka will be VERY unhappy.
Yeah, I haven't thought this was about "because Luka will be VERY unhappy". If you doubt that motive, then I'm there with you.
Also, I'm not in the camp that would say the Mavs must get Dragic "whatever it costs". And I think the idea that "not Dragic" would be attached to "failure" is because it looks like "not Dragic" might mean that the Mavs are done updating the roster. So the failure would be settling for just Bullock/Brown/Moses as the offseason get.
(08-05-2021, 03:22 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Something like:
KP & Finney-Smith to Wash
Beal to Boston
Jalen Brown and Powell to Toronto
Dragic and Siakam to Dallas
Harrell into Dallas’s TPE (not cause we want him)
Assorted first rounders and filler to balance the equation
Take DFS out of that deal and I'm in!
(08-05-2021, 03:02 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand this. The Mavs might want Dragic, but they don't actually need him. If a deal doesn't get done, they just move on. Toronto, on the other hand, actually has to pay Dragic (which they seemingly would prefer not to do). Therefore, all the leverage is on the Dallas side--unless there's an unidentified 3rd team looking to pick up Dragic, but in that case it's Dallas and the other team splitting the leverage. Toronto still has none (other than to pull out of any deal entirely and decide to live with Dragic taking up a roster and budget spot).
Now, if Luka were to tell Nico "You *must* get this done", I agree, that would change the dynamic somewhat, but there's no indication that's the case. There's every reason to believe Luka would *like* the Mavs to bring in Dragic, but there's a big difference between preference and demand.
That's a concise way to putting this line of thought.
It seems like if any team is in a box, it's Toronto. They're the ones who agreed to take on an old backup guard on a wildly inflated salary, and are now scrambling to find a way out of it. There are lots of playmaking guards out there who are as good as/better than Dragic, and the Mavs will find one. At worst, it won't be in the offseason. But Toronto is stuck with Dragic if they can't find a way to make a deal that works for the other team involved.
I am presenting that as an opinion, not a report or a fact, so it may be that circumstances exist that make it crucially important for Dallas to sign Dragic himself.
(08-05-2021, 03:02 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]I don't understand this. The Mavs might want Dragic, but they don't actually need him. If a deal doesn't get done, they just move on. Toronto, on the other hand, actually has to pay Dragic (which they seemingly would prefer not to do). Therefore, all the leverage is on the Dallas side--unless there's an unidentified 3rd team looking to pick up Dragic, but in that case it's Dallas and the other team splitting the leverage. Toronto still has none (other than to pull out of any deal entirely and decide to live with Dragic taking up a roster and budget spot).
Now, if Luka were to tell Nico "You *must* get this done", I agree, that would change the dynamic somewhat, but there's no indication that's the case. There's every reason to believe Luka would *like* the Mavs to bring in Dragic, but there's a big difference between preference and demand.
We are miscommunicating. We all know Luka is the guy with all the leverage. That’s my point. My mention of one call from Duffy was a reference to what Duffy might say Luka wants. Yes, MIGHT. I obviously have no clue what Luka wants. Except a pony. We all want a pony.
(08-05-2021, 03:29 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]There are lots of playmaking guards out there who are as good as/better than Dragic
I might quibble with this.
(08-05-2021, 03:29 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]That's a concise way to putting this line of thought.
It seems like if any team is in a box, it's Toronto. They're the ones who agreed to take on an old backup guard on a wildly inflated salary, and are now scrambling to find a way out of it. There are lots of playmaking guards out there who are as good as/better than Dragic, and the Mavs will find one. At worst, it won't be in the offseason. But Toronto is stuck with Dragic if they can't find a way to make a deal that works for the other team involved.
I am presenting that as an opinion, not a report or a fact, so it may be that circumstances exist that make it crucially important for Dallas to sign Dragic himself.
Which reminds me how strange it seemed that Toronto did this deal with Miami. A big fat favor to outgoing Lowry? A seeming miscalculation on their ability to unload him on Dallas? Or what? And why would f’n Pat Riley be the beneficiary of yet another favor from another team? (HATE that dude!)
(08-05-2021, 02:55 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]Had a chance to watch any Olympic soccer?
Is that a hint. Did we miss a shout out? Will you do it again or do we have to rewatch the entire soccer coverage to find it?
(08-05-2021, 03:33 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Which reminds me how strange it seemed that Toronto did this deal with Miami. A big fat favor to outgoing Lowry? A seeming miscalculation on their ability to unload him on Dallas? Or what? And why would f’n Pat Riley be the beneficiary of yet another favor from another team? (HATE that dude!)
My opinion is probably in the minority, but Dragic + Achiuwa feels right for Lowry. I don't see a favor here or a one sided trade. I don't think Lowry is that much better than Dragic. Both are 35 year old guards that are getting close to the end.
(08-05-2021, 03:30 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]We are miscommunicating. We all know Luka is the guy with all the leverage. That’s my point. My mention of one call from Duffy was a reference to what Duffy might say Luka wants. Yes, MIGHT. I obviously have no clue what Luka wants. Except a pony. We all want a pony.
Well, I did start by saying I wasn't understanding
.
But yes, I thought the focus was on leverage between Toronto and Dallas, not the leverage internal to the Mavs organization.
(08-05-2021, 03:31 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]I might quibble with this.
It seems to me that there are all sorts of playmaking guards in the NBA (or otherwise eligible to play in the NBA) who are as good as/better than Dragic.
Not all of them are available by tomorrow, agreed. But the idea that Dragic, at $19M, is the best acquisition out there who could play for the Mavs this season doesn't seem to pass the smell test.
I agree that Dragic seems like a good acquisition for a price approaching his real value. I am just questioning whether it makes sense to substantially overpay for him just to have something done this week. Smacks of desperation over a player who might not be a significant upgrade over Brunson to get the season started.
Maybe Dragic really is that important. Or maybe overpaying for him is really the best the Mavs can do this season. If the latter is the case, silent tears are coursing down my face.
(08-05-2021, 03:34 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Is that a hint. Did we miss a shout out? Will you do it again or do we have to rewatch the entire soccer coverage to find it?
LOL, fifteenth was supposed to deliver a Mark Followill riposte. Good pickup, df.
(08-05-2021, 03:35 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]My opinion is probably in the minority, but Dragic + Achiuwa feels right for Lowry. I don't see a favor here or a one sided trade. I don't think Lowry is that much better than Dragic. Both are 35 year old guards that are getting close to the end.
I don't disagree with you, *except* that there seem to be a lot of reports that Toronto doesn't want Dragic. If Toronto did the deal with the perception that Dragic was a negative asset they wanted to move on from, and they fail to do so, then it does seem that Riley got the better of them.
(08-05-2021, 03:42 PM)Arioch Wrote: [ -> ]Well, I did start by saying I wasn't understanding .
But yes, I thought the focus was on leverage between Toronto and Dallas, not the leverage internal to the Mavs organization.
The phrasing was me trying to be cute. Which usually fails.
(08-05-2021, 03:43 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I agree that Dragic seems like a good acquisition for a price approaching his real value. I am just questioning whether it makes sense to substantially overpay for him just to have something done this week. Smacks of desperation over a player who might not be a significant upgrade over Brunson to get the season started.
Maybe Dragic really is that important. Or maybe overpaying for him is really the best the Mavs can do this season. If the latter is the case, silent tears are coursing down my face.
My stance:
1) Dragic is as good a fit of a player currently "available" as I can see. Don't see better options available.
2) I wouldn't pay a single asset to get him. I am glad Nico is playing hard ball and not caving.
(08-05-2021, 03:43 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]LOL, fifteenth was supposed to deliver a Mark Followill riposte. Good pickup, df.
FAIL BY ME!
I really thought you were asking me about soccer because one time I caught you admitting taht you liked it (which was already obvious, since you enjoy doing the calls so much)!
(08-05-2021, 03:33 PM)Jommybone Wrote: [ -> ]Which reminds me how strange it seemed that Toronto did this deal with Miami. A big fat favor to outgoing Lowry? A seeming miscalculation on their ability to unload him on Dallas? Or what? And why would f’n Pat Riley be the beneficiary of yet another favor from another team? (HATE that dude!)
A fair question, at this point.
It wouldn't be the first time Riley has gotten the better of another team, although Toronto isn't usually the pigeon when it comes to trades.
If that wasn't the case, then it seems like, when the agreement was made, Toronto must have thought they could unload Dragic for a little more than it looks like anyone wants to pay, or if that failed, that they would be okay with keeping him, at least for a while.
(08-05-2021, 03:51 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]FAIL BY ME!
I really thought you were asking me about soccer because one time I caught you admitting taht you liked it (which was already obvious, since you enjoy doing the calls so much)!
No, no, not a fail at all.
I do enjoy soccer. Just one of my weak attempts at an opening for a little humor, lol. I should do better.
(08-05-2021, 03:58 PM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]I do enjoy soccer. Just one of my weak attempts at an opening for a little humor, lol.
No...my fail...your set up was perfect, just like the pitch of your voice while yelling "GOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAL"