(01-08-2021, 08:06 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Not to mention that BOTH of them are going to get PAID when their current contracts are up. If you want to keep them, you'd better have your ducks in a row before that happens.
I don't think there will be a huge difference. Maxi will be 30 once his contract expires, so I think his next contract will be at the MLE range as the current one. DFS will go up to the MLE range.
Bertans is for sure way overpaid. He is elite in one skill though.
(01-08-2021, 08:11 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think there will be a huge difference. Maxi will be 30 once his contract expires, so I think his next contract will be at the MLE range as the current one. DFS will go up to the MLE range.
Bertans is for sure way overpaid. He is elite in one skill though.
Man, I hope you're right. But honestly, I think Kleber is fast approaching elite at that very same skill, and HE is a two-way player. We'll see.
DFS...maybe. I just feel like guys of that length who can shoot and defend are pricey every year.
The point is, the Mavs have to start planning long term for their FINANCIAL future. Cuban might go into the tax at some point, but they won't be able to pay EVERYONE what they think they deserve. I think part of the reason they added the four rookies is to prepare for the idea of consolidating some of these good role players into one upgrade at some point in the near future.
(01-08-2021, 08:15 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Man, I hope you're right. But honestly, I think Kleber is fast approaching elite at that very same skill, and HE is a two-way player. We'll see.
No way you can compare Bertans and Kleber shooting. Kleber shoots high percentage, but he has to be wide open to even launch it. Bertans got a contract for an elite floor spacing season, shooting almost nine threes per game at over 40 %. That is better than THJ.
DFS, I think you can see how much comparable players are paid. Royce, Brooks, Osman, Tucker, Crowder are similar guys all paid around MLE. Its offense that really gets you paid.
(01-08-2021, 08:24 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]No way you can compare Bertans and Kleber shooting. Kleber shoots high percentage, but he has to be wide open to even launch it. Bertans got a contract for an elite floor spacing season, shooting almost nine threes per game at over 40 %. That is better than THJ.
DFS, I think you can see how much comparable players are paid. Royce, Brooks, Osman, Tucker, Crowder are similar guys all paid around MLE. Its offense that really gets you paid.
Like I said: I hope you're right.
Celtics lost all rotation bigs except for Theis due to COVID protocols. They unleashed the giant and Tacko delivered.
4pts 8rebs 3blks in 19 minutes
I remember that a lot of posters questioned Grants big contract. The way he plays right now he should have asked for max money.
Averaging 24/6 57%TS. Only scored less than 20 once (in the season opener).
(01-08-2021, 11:05 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I remember that a lot of posters questioned Grants big contract.
I would have never given him that contract....still wouldn't honestly, want to see a larger sample size.
But yeah, good on him if he proves me and his detractors wrong.
(01-08-2021, 11:05 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]I remember that a lot of posters questioned Grants big contract. The way he plays right now he should have asked for max money.
Averaging 24/6 57%TS. Only scored less than 20 once (in the season opener).
1.3 Blocks too with low turnovers. I wanted no part of the money he was given and saw him as a guy you'd love to have on your team but would hate to pay him. It will be interesting to see if he can keep it up as that's 10 points above his best season statistically. The team he's on certainly will afford him the opportunity to keep producing like that.
Josh Jackson is having a nice start to his season as well.
(01-08-2021, 07:26 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]From the news posted it seems Collins provided some constructive criticism and Young is acting like a diva.
Nothing should ever go public. Thats going behind the back. Look at patriots thats a model franchise that keeps problems away and players that act like that. Collins should speak directly to the coach and Young if he has character enough and solve the issues internally. He is not doing that. Instrad on purpose going public to damage Youngs image. Thats not making solutions to issues. Thats on purpose to excalate issues to damage a teammate.
Id not trade Kleber for Collins. Kleber glues the team together. Just look jow happy Luka and everyone else is playing with him.
Id take a shot with a less important player to get Collins and work alot to try remodel his approach and team and try to work him in and change his selfish approach to a team sports game.
(01-09-2021, 02:20 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing should ever go public. Thats going behind the back. Look at patriots thats a model franchise that keeps problems away and players that act like that. Collins should speak directly to the coach and Young if he has character enough and solve the issues internally. He is not doing that. Instrad on purpose going public to damage Youngs image. Thats not making solutions to issues. Thats on purpose to excalate issues to damage a teammate.
The athletic article said there is 3 sources, and that they reached Collins to Confirm and he responded with Trae is my brother.
So, I think it is safe to say it is unlikely that Collins is the one who keaked this or has gone to the public
(01-08-2021, 06:53 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]I would be willing to consider THJ and Powell for Collins.
I too would love to trade our trash for a 23 year old hyper athletic forward that has averaged 20/10 on 56% from the floor and 37% from 3 the last 3 years.
It's just not realistic. You gotta bring something to the table and Kleber is a valuable asset. Collins has an argument to be THE 3rd star we're looking for, much like Lavine or Hield or whoever we're talking ourselves into. He's not perfect. His maturity makes me a little worried. He seems to be concerned about his image a bit too much. His defense leaves a lot to be desired. Though I do ask myself, is Collins shitty defense a product of his environment, or is he the creator of that environment. Perhaps he can change his ways here?
But on the court fit? For the same reasons we salivated over a potential Zion pairing, Collins would be exactly that. He's the above the rim, young, stretch 4 that can be the engine of the offense on any given night.
Just my 2 cents. No way ATL gifts him to us for just Kleber anyways. Maybe we can pry him away over the summer with a max offer.
(01-08-2021, 06:53 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]They both need a good defense, and good teammates and chemistry, and they will win a championship. This is where we need the most help with. We need to make a great defensive team, teamplayers, surround Luka with two way players and plus defenders. KP, Kleber, JRich, DFS, thats the kind of players we need.
Also I totally agree with you. Kleber is a championship caliber player, and I believe the reason why he's so good is that the fits his role to a T. It's why I'm reluctant to give him up in ANY trade.
(01-09-2021, 02:20 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Nothing should ever go public. Thats going behind the back. Look at patriots thats a model franchise that keeps problems away and players that act like that. Collins should speak directly to the coach and Young if he has character enough and solve the issues internally. He is not doing that. Instrad on purpose going public to damage Youngs image. Thats not making solutions to issues. Thats on purpose to excalate issues to damage a teammate.
??? Another one... Collins didn't go to media, he discussed issues in a team meeting.
(01-09-2021, 04:15 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]??? Another one... Collins didn't go to media, he discussed issues in a team meeting.
Ok so it was Trae Young going to media. He should never have done that. Its totally unprofessional.
However:
You dont want this guy (Collins) to make the same problems with Luka. In a year or two he will make an issue at team meetings making critics of Luka and KP why they are more dominant than he is. He is obviously a very selfish player, being jelous that the team runs through Young. Then it will leak to the press again the same way. Then similar issues will come, this time for the entire Mavs team. Then, we will all wish we never traded Kleber away... That is loved by the Hawks teammates...
No for Kleber for Collins. Collins is a more talented, more athletic, better, younger player, I dont even discuss that, with more skills. Kleber is a better teamplayer, far better character, and far better fit for this team, he is a two way player with defense and character. You take him away and the entire team chemistry is hit, and that deficit on defense and team chemistry is far larger than the void Collins will fit.
Im all for finding another way to get Collins. It can be THJ, Powell, rookies, and some future picks. To me you dont touch the two way players of this team that have great team chemistry and love playing with one another. That is Luka, KP, JRich, Maxi and DFS. The rest are one way players. And Im very reluctant also to trade Brunson, he may still be only a one way player, but his curve is pointing upwards heavily, im not inclined to trade players that are improving at a great speed. All the rest are up for trade if the value makes sense. And i only making that trade if there is a way to control Collins and get him to accept to play team basketball. If any issues arrise, he can more easy be traded away as an asset and we still have Maxi on this team so if he makes similar problems, it will be less of a problem for us to get rid of him.
(01-09-2021, 02:32 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Collins has an argument to be THE 3rd star we're looking for, much like Lavine or Hield or whoever we're talking ourselves into.
SH I do agree. My worry is that his ego seemingly did not allow him to even be the 2nd star of the Hawks team. He could not stand that. He wanted/needed to be the undisputed 1st one. That is a huge risk gambling this guy to accept being 3rd star.
The 3rd star for Mavs team needs to be a player that has maturity to accept being the 3rd. At times possibly also 4th or 5th depending how the other players perform in given stretches. That player must have maturity enough to even accept to be a bench player on given nights and periods, such as THJ maturity that we see now.
The 3rd star absolutely needs preferably be that outstanding defensive player to make the proper team fit. This is where the Collins idea does not fit with me.
You look at Maxi, JRich, DFS. THat's maturity and playing team basketball, accepting their roles and playing within the team.
The 3rd star of this team needs to have maturity to always accept being 3rd and he does not ha e the talent to be 1st or 2nd for the Mavs team. His numbers are not going to be 20/10 here IMO. That was a product of being the best player on the possibly worst team in NBA.
To me Collins stands out as selfish, non team player, without maturity. Thats exactly the opposite what we want/need.
EDIT: On other hand I probably would also never have traded for Dennis Rodman. I do agree its sometimes a good idea to gamble for players with issues. The main thing is: Can they be controlled? It is a red flag that Collins is unwilling to be a 2nd star.
(01-09-2021, 04:29 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]You dont want this guy (Collins) to make the same problems with Luka.
What problems? You are so exaggerating this instance. Coworkers talk with eachother, discuss issues. Collins said a couple of things he thinks are not ok. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And main point was that team should avoid early clock 30 footers, which I guess kind of make sense. Would we want Luka to fire step backs from the logo 5 seconds into shotclock?
(01-09-2021, 05:02 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]What problems? You are so exaggerating this instance. Coworkers talk with eachother, discuss issues. Collins said a couple of things he thinks are not ok. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that. And main point was that team should avoid early clock 30 footers, which I guess kind of make sense. Would we want Luka to fire step backs from the logo 5 seconds into shotclock?
Its not exaggerating. Luka takes too many stepback 3s. Collins would be pissed not getting the ball from Luka. Then you have a big problem if he "mentions" that in team meetings.
IMO you go to the coach and have a private meeting with coach and the player you have problem with, and like this try to sort this out. You dont say it in an entire meeting with all players around, and staff, where this thing can leak out. You make it as secret as possible if you have an issue and try to solve it.
I think the basic idea behind this is good to talk and improve the team. Collins would have a good point for Luka. Luka indeed takes too many step back 3s. But taking this to team meetings is not the way to go. You deal this with the player directly and the coach, and for this you really need to know what you are doing before you say this.
What would be the major issue is that clearly Collins does not know how to discuss this issue without it affecting his teammates negatively. He created a problem for the entire franchise. He was unable to discuss this with Young and sort it out. Its one of the key things being a good teammate to know how to approach this and for it not becoming a problem. To solve things.
Im sure Mavs players solve issues continuously and directly with one another, without that it becomes a huge team meting issue.
We need team chemistry players. Its the most important thing. Its not exaggerating anything IMO.
Of course for many Collins type of players, eventually there will be a Rodman. I dont dispute that. And even for him it was never coworker issues or team issues, rather personal issues in life. But better to stay on the safe side IMO.
Finally, by saying this Collins also disrespected the coach. This is the coachs job to decide the strategy of the team is playing. He is stepping into the territory that he should not be in. What if Mavs struggle for some games or periods? Will he start to dictate who should do what and what each player should do?
its a huge red flag IMO.
(01-09-2021, 05:12 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Its not exaggerating. Luka takes too many stepback 3s. Collins would be pissed not getting the ball from Luka. Then you have a big problem if he "mentions" that in team meetings.
IMO you go to the coach and have a private meeting with coach and the player you have problem with, and like this try to sort this out. You dont say it in an entire meeting with all players around, and staff, where this thing can leak out. You make it as secret as possible if you have an issue and try to solve it.
Isn't that the purpose of player meeting? To talk and discuss?
And thus going public is on whoever leaked it, not on the player.
Honestly, I Don't see any red flag, like at all
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