MavsBoard

I can't believe in 2 weeks either Chris Paul or Giannis will be ending their season with a ring. 

Woulda thunk it?

(07-03-2021, 11:19 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]Any games he doesn't play and the Suns win increase the size of the gigantic ASTERISK next to their championship

Asterisk, shmasterisk. All that matters is that no adult who chooses to reside in Milwaukee, WI ever experiences undeserved sports happiness.

(07-03-2021, 10:12 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Watching Cam Reddish just re-enforces how badly the dumb winning culture botched our future. For that alone the whole MBT deserves firing, including the owner. We could have drafted Tatum, Fox, Ball, Isaac or Markkanen instead of DSJ. We could have drafted Luka AND Reddish.

Everything happens for a reason. If we tanked harder and got Ball/Fax/Markkannen we'd probably wouldn't have been able to get Luka.


I'm fine with how things turned out because even though the Mavs objectively didn't do the tanking thing well, they still made out with arguably the best generational talent since Lebron.

(07-03-2021, 11:21 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Asterisk, smasterisk. All that matters is that no adult who chooses to reside in Milwaukee, WI ever experiences undeserved sports happiness.

You still haven't outlined what makes Milwaukee so terrible. "Just trust me" is zero answer.

---

(07-03-2021, 11:22 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Everything happens for a reason. If we tanked harder and got Ball/Fax/Markkannen we'd probably wouldn't have been able to get Luka.


I'm fine with how things turned out because even though the Mavs objectively didn't do the tanking thing well, they still made out with arguably the best generational talent since Lebron.

Still needed to get the tank right in '17-'18 regardless of any other arguments.

And people wonder why RC despised Salah.

Biggest mistake in Hawks franchise history. If they haf Luka they would have won this Championship. This is why they are out. And likely many more others would they have won.

Congrats to the Bucks.    Pretty impressive.  Having Young hurt certainly helped, but with Giannis went down I had doubts they could finish off ATL.  

ATL has a bright future, but agree with the tweet below.  

https://twitter.com/johnhollinger/status...8090789896

(07-03-2021, 11:22 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Everything happens for a reason. If we tanked harder and got Ball/Fax/Markkannen we'd probably wouldn't have been able to get Luka.

I'm fine with how things turned out because even though the Mavs objectively didn't do the tanking thing well, they still made out with arguably the best generational talent since Lebron.

(07-03-2021, 11:22 PM)Scott41theMavs Wrote: [ -> ]You still haven't outlined what makes Milwaukee so terrible. "Just trust me" is zero answer.

---

Still needed to get the tank right in '17-'18 regardless of any other arguments.

And people wonder why RC despised Salah.

(07-03-2021, 10:12 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]Watching Cam Reddish just re-enforces how badly the dumb winning culture botched our future. For that alone the whole MBT deserves firing, including the owner. We could have drafted Tatum, Fox, Ball, Isaac or Markkanen instead of DSJ. We could have drafted Luka AND Reddish.

(07-03-2021, 10:15 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs REALLY, REALLY screwed up their tanking jobs. So hard to argue against that IMO.

The Mavs should have Luka AND  Zion.

On April 7, 2019, in one of the worst tanking jobs in the history of the world, the Mavs defeated the Grizzlies 129-127 in Memphis in overtime,  "improving" Dallas' record to 32-48 (while dropping Memphis' record to the very same 32-48).  Two days later, on April 9, the Mavs won again versus the pathetic Phoenix Suns (who, by the way, are currently doing pretty well in the NBA Playoffs), which put an end to the Suns' dismal 19-63 season.  The next day (April 10, 2019), the Mavs somehow managed to lose their final game of the season (versus San Antonio), finishing with a record of 33-49.  Then, two days later ...

On April 12, 2019, the NBA draft tiebreaker took place, determining the Mavs' preliminary order ahead of the May 14 lottery.  Dallas, New Orleans, and Memphis were all tied with a 33-49 record. The Pelicans won the tiebreaker, the Grizzlies finished second, and the Mavs third.  New Orleans' pre-draft slot was #7, Memphis was # 8, and Dallas was #9.

On May 14, 2019, the NBA draft lottery took place.  The team in the #7 pre-lottery slot (where the Mavs easily could have been),  "won" the lottery (i.e., the 33-49 New Orleans Pelicans were awarded the first pick in the 2019 draft).  The team in the #8 pre-lottery slot [33-49 Memphis Grizzlies] won the second pick in the draft.  The team in the #1 pre-lottery slot [17-65 New York Knicks] won the third pick in the draft.  The team in the #11 pre-lottery slot [37-45 Los Angeles Lakers] won the fourth pick in the draft.  The team in the #2 pre-lottery slot [19-63 Cleveland Cavaliers] won the fifth pick in the draft. The team in the #3 pre-lottery slot [19-63 Phoenix Suns] won the sixth pick in the draft.  Etc.

Because the Mavs drew outside the top 5, their pick (#10) was conveyed to the Atlanta Hawks (WOOHOO --- go Luka!!!) ....

If the Mavs would have lost two of their final three games in April of 2019 (instead of winning  two out of three), then their record would have been 32-50, exactly the same as the Washington Wizards.  Would the Mavericks have "won" a tie-breaker with the Wizards?  Would the team in the #7 pre-lottery slot still have nailed the #1 pick on May 14, 2019?  Have you ever heard of the Butterfly Effect?  How much wood could a woodchuck chuck (assuming optimal woodchucking conditions)?


https://www.basketball-reference.com/box...70MEM.html

https://www.mavs.com/draft-lottery-tiebr...ted-ninth/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_NBA_draft

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l89hUYJwFA4

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

(07-04-2021, 02:29 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Biggest mistake in Hawks franchise history. If they haf Luka they would have won this Championship. This is why they are out. And likely many more others would they have won.

Hyperbole much?

(07-04-2021, 11:19 AM)Hogmelon Wrote: [ -> ]The Mavs should have Luka AND  Zion.

On April 7, 2019, in one of the worst tanking jobs in the history of the world, the Mavs defeated the Grizzlies 129-127 in Memphis in overtime,  "improving" Dallas' record to 32-48 (while dropping Memphis' record to the very same 32-48).  Two days later, on April 9, the Mavs won again versus the pathetic Phoenix Suns (who, by the way, are currently doing pretty well in the NBA Playoffs), which put an end to the Suns' dismal 19-63 season.  The next day (April 10, 2019), the Mavs somehow managed to lose their final game of the season (versus San Antonio), finishing with a record of 33-49.  Then, two days later ...

On April 12, 2019, the NBA draft tiebreaker took place, determining the Mavs' preliminary order ahead of the May 14 lottery.  Dallas, New Orleans, and Memphis were all tied with a 33-49 record. The Pelicans won the tiebreaker, the Grizzlies finished second, and the Mavs third.  New Orleans' pre-draft slot was #7, Memphis was # 8, and Dallas was #9.

On May 14, 2019, the NBA draft lottery took place.  The team in the #7 pre-lottery slot (where the Mavs easily could have been),  "won" the lottery (i.e., the 33-49 New Orleans Pelicans were awarded the first pick in the 2019 draft).  The team in the #8 pre-lottery slot [33-49 Memphis Grizzlies] won the second pick in the draft.  The team in the #1 pre-lottery slot [17-65 New York Knicks] won the third pick in the draft.  The team in the #11 pre-lottery slot [37-45 Los Angeles Lakers] won the fourth pick in the draft.  The team in the #2 pre-lottery slot [19-63 Cleveland Cavaliers] won the fifth pick in the draft. The team in the #3 pre-lottery slot [19-63 Phoenix Suns] won the sixth pick in the draft.  Etc.

Because the Mavs drew outside the top 5, their pick (#10) was conveyed to the Atlanta Hawks (WOOHOO --- go Luka!!!) ....

If the Mavs would have lost two of their final three games in April of 2019 (instead of winning  two out of three), then their record would have been 32-50, exactly the same as the Washington Wizards.  Would the Mavericks have "won" a tie-breaker with the Wizards?  Would the team in the #7 pre-lottery slot still have nailed the #1 pick on May 14, 2019?  Have you ever heard of the Butterfly Effect?  How much wood could a woodchuck chuck (assuming optimal woodchucking conditions)?

RC's coaching in those last games ANGERED me SO MUCH. It was the final straw for me. You don't ask the players to lose, but the coach should have done his part to help the franchise be in the best draft position.

(07-04-2021, 12:46 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Hyperbole much?

Luka is just a far far far better and more consistent player. Trae has off games often, i think in the latest 4 games, he had like 2 or 3 really bad games combined with 1 grwat game. Luka plays great essentially every game.

In addition, Lukas defense is a lot better.

There is no question in my mind, Hawks win the championship this year, if they had Luka instead of Trae.

Hawks have a much better roster than Dallas when you look outside Luka and Trae, and its not even close.

What Luka achieved against Clippers with a heealthy Kawhi is nothing short of impressive.

In the games where Trae came off, Hawks performed great and arguably even better. In the minutes Luka was off, the Mavs were horrible. Blewing 20 pt leads regularly.

Hawks made a terrible decision here, but have been impressive building the roster on all other decisions they made.

Until we get to end of the career stage for these players, first then we will know. Until then, its just personal opinions. But I do not exaggarate my own opinion, I am convinced that Hawks would win the title this season if they had Luka instead of Trae. Its a very valid and likely point. Luka has outperformed Trae in most statistics and eye ball tests. If that is the difference between the title, and not, yes, this could very well become one of the biggest mistakes in their franchise history.

(07-04-2021, 02:18 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]Luka is just a far far far better and more consistent player. Trae has off games often, i think in the latest 4 games, he had like 2 or 3 really bad games combined with 1 grwat game. Luka plays great essentially every game.

In addition, Lukas defense is a lot better.

There is no question in my mind, Hawks win the championship this year, if they had Luka instead of Trae.

Hawks have a much better roster than Dallas when you look outside Luka and Trae, and its not even close.

What Luka achieved against Clippers with a heealthy Kawhi is nothing short of impressive.

In the games where Trae came off, Hawks performed great and arguably even better. In the minutes Luka was off, the Mavs were horrible. Blewing 20 pt leads regularly.

Hawks made a terrible decision here, but have been impressive building the roster on all other decisions they made.

Until we get to end of the career stage for these players, first then we will know. Until then, its just personal opinions. But I do not exaggarate my own opinion, I am convinced that Hawks would win the title this season if they had Luka instead of Trae. Its a very valid and likely point. Luka has outperformed Trae in most statistics and eye ball tests. If that is the difference between the title, and not, yes, this could very well become one of the biggest mistakes in their franchise history.

So who you think wins a title first, Luka or Trae ?   I don't get the comparisons between them just because they were traded for each other. They're games are similar but Luka is much bigger and stronger, so he has that over him obviously. But Trae is much faster. Luka is a better rebounder, again his size. Passing is a push, Luka may be a better shooter, but both take bad shots. Trae is really small, but he plays tough and knows how to draw fouls. I think most observers didn't expect Trae to be as good as he is. So there is a shock factor in play here. Trae Young is a star so some have a hard time accepting that. That trade isn't all that one-sided now. Especially since the Mavs threw in Cam Reddish.

(07-04-2021, 10:01 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]That trade isn't all that one-sided now. Especially since the Mavs threw in Cam Reddish.

That trade was and always will be one of the most lopsided ever. The Hawks traded away this generation’s Lebron James. It doesn’t get much worse than that.

(07-04-2021, 10:01 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]So who you think wins a title first, Luka or Trae ?   I don't get the comparisons between them just because they were traded for each other. They're games are similar but Luka is much bigger and stronger, so he has that over him obviously. But Trae is much faster. Luka is a better rebounder, again his size. Passing is a push, Luka may be a better shooter, but both take bad shots. Trae is really small, but he plays tough and knows how to draw fouls. I think most observers didn't expect Trae to be as good as he is. So there is a shock factor in play here. Trae Young is a star so some have a hard time accepting that. That trade isn't all that one-sided now. Especially since the Mavs threw in Cam Reddish.

My take is that while Luka is the better player, Young is much better than expected. 

But most importantly, each player ended up in the right place and was able to breathe life back into their respective franchises in a way the other couldn't have, were their destinations reversed. 

Anyone who's familiar at all with ATL knows that a white European would've been a hard sell to that team's fans. Here in Dallas, Dirk has paved the way for that type of player. Trae Young absolutely wouldn't have been given the keys here so quickly at the time, due to the combo of DSJ and Carlisle. If the Mavs had drafted him, we might STILL have fans who preferred DSJ to this day, and I kind of doubt Young would've had as much of a chance to shine. 

I think both players are good enough to have won over the other's city, eventually, but I think it would've been bumpier in both cases. I think both teams do the deal again, knowing what they know now. 

However, I don't care how well Ayton is playing right now - PHX and SAC would both absolutely take Luka if they had it to do over.

(07-04-2021, 10:01 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]So who you think wins a title first, Luka or Trae ?   

The Hawks are a piece away from getting Trae a chip.  Luka is a team switch away from getting a chip.

(07-04-2021, 11:35 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The Hawks are a piece away from getting Trae a chip.  Luka is a team switch away from getting a chip.

I mean, the Mavs took the Clips to 7. There is a legit argument that had they versed any other team in the NBA they'd have gone to the finals this year alone.

Put the Hawks in the West and they don't make it out of the first round. The Mavs would have wiped the floor against the Knicks and a hobbled 76ers.

(07-04-2021, 11:35 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]The Hawks are a piece away from getting Trae a chip.

Nah. They played way over their heads in a weak conference that was also blasted with injuries. Trae won't even be back to the conference finals for awhile IMO.

(07-04-2021, 11:38 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I mean, the Mavs took the Clips to 7. There is a legit argument that had they versed any other team in the NBA they'd have gone to the finals this year alone.

Put the Hawks in the West and they don't make it out of the first round. The Mavs would have wiped the floor against the Knicks and a hobbled 76ers.

Hawks aren't in the West.  Mavs aren't in the East.  We probably could have won a matchup against the Lakers or Memphis.  Any other western conference team would have have given us the same fate as the Clippers.

(07-04-2021, 11:46 PM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Nah. They played way over their heads in a weak conference that was also blasted with injuries. Trae won't even be back to the conference finals for awhile IMO.

I concur.

https://twitter.com/nicolas88batum/statu...4878288902

Jordan athlete. I know it sucks Luka won't have a full offseason to work, but I hope he does a lot of recruiting in Tokyo.