(06-28-2021, 09:35 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]https://ahnfiredigital.com/nba/minnesota...n-simmons/
I don't see it for Minny. Not enough meat there for Morey as they are in a win now mode.
I think the two most realistic options for Lowry is Miami and Philly. I believe Herro may be in the trade talks now. Philly was probably offering Maxey, Thubule and stuff at the trade deadline. I could see Masai trying to get Simmons for Lowry. I would love to see Simmons on that Toronto team. I just don't think Lowry is enough. He is the better fit now, but at his age he only has a few years of top play. I don't think Morey would do a trade like that. Maybe there are some extra pieces, but Simmons with that team plus the #4 pick would be really intriguing for Toronto.
(06-28-2021, 07:07 AM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Even better, they have space. I think Charlotte meets all the criteria of a third team. 1. They need a center. 2. They have a clean 2023 pick. 3. They have excess at PG and Rozier is on his final year. 4. They have cap room.
Charlotte has $20mm in space if you assume they keep the hold on Graham and the other logical options on their roster. I can use almost all of that up by sending KP and JRich for expiring Rozier, PJ Washington and one other minor contract (I like Duffy client Jalen McDaniels). They also send out the 2023 in a way that assures Dallas of having a pick that year.
Portland could use Rozier in a backcourt rotation with McCollum and Simons. PJ Washington fits well in a front court rotation with Nurkic and Covington and there is room in this deal to move on from Derrick Jones Jr., Sign Norman Powell in the $18-$20mm range and still have $8-$10mm in cap space. Portland has expiring and tradeable vets in Nurkic, Rozier and Covington if they decide to tear it down at the deadline. Or, they can retain those guys and try to be 6th-8th seed in the west. Washington and the picks provide the "hope for the future" element that is needed in a deal like this. This is three picks, a useful but expiring PG and a young PF with upside in Washington and Milwaukee. Jrue cost Milwaukee RJ Hampton, two picks, George Hill and Bledsoe. This isn't that far off.
Dallas obviously ends up with Lillard, the DJJr. salary dump for a year and Jalen McDaniels to be a backup forward. We stay over the cap and retain THJ, WCS and can use the MLE.
With posts like these I'm starting to get excited.
It makes a lot of sense. DAL also has a young PG that has shown promise in Brunson (* though not nearly the level of prospect of say a Brandon Ingram that was the core of the AD trade).
What would be the final framework of the deal?
POR: Washington/Roizer/Brunson/ 2023 (CHA)+2025+2027 FRP w/ pick swaps in 2024+2026?
CHA: KP+JRich
DAL: Lillard/DJJr/McDaniels
Another angle I think if we're looking for a creative 3rd team could be either GSW or OKC. OKC has a glut of picks that they can never truly foster. They also already have some interesting prospects. I can see them trying to move Kemba quickly to a better situation, even if they have to attach a couple of picks/players to do so.
OKC: KP/JRich
POR: Kemba/Bazely/Brunson/ with all the picks as above but OKC provides 2023.
DAL: Dame/DJJr
Only thing that throws a wrench here is if POR is trying to save money, which they wouldn't be able to do with Kemba.
I do think GSW could be a very willing 3rd team because of their interest in KP too but as to building a quick framework I'm not sure of.
Quick edit: In the Harden deal the Nets traded 3 FRP (2022+2024+2026) with 4 pick swaps (2021+2023+2025+2027). If the Mavs can get a 2023 FRP unprotected they could match the 3 picks and 4 pick swaps frame works easily.
(06-28-2021, 09:32 AM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]My prediction is GSW. Since Lillard is an Oak Town lifer I imagine they'll be on his short list, and they have the draft capital and the matching Wiggins salary to do it.
I still think that winning a championship with a franchise that doesn't have a recent history of superteamdom would be important to Dame. Seems like a guy who is pretty legacy driven and I think joining Curry would damper his legacy a bit.
(06-28-2021, 09:32 AM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]My prediction is GSW. Since Lillard is an Oak Town lifer I imagine they'll be on his short list, and they have the draft capital and the matching Wiggins salary to do it.
Interesting. My theory due to his current contract and his loyalty to Portland that Dame is back in Portland next year, but will not be with the team in the next 1-2 years. When he is eventually moved, I wonder how loyal Portland will be to get him to a team of his desire or if they play hardball?
I don't see Portland trading him to Golden State no matter how good the deal is though. That would be brutal for Portland fans to see one of their neighbor franchises re-load with their best player in franchise history. Regardless, Wiseman's value is very low. Obviously they want value back for him, but would they trade him to a team like New Orleans where he has 3 years left on his contract or work with him on a win/win scenario.
I think if he was moved this year that Toronto would be very high on the wish list. Could they offer FVV, Siakem and pick #4 (maybe additional picks too?). at #4, Portland could get the local kid from Gonzaga in Suggs. Plus, they would get Lilliard as far away as possible.
Simmons and Russillo (two huge Luka guys) talked Dame destinations for like 20 minutes last night and I don't think it even occurred to them to mention Dallas. That's how not obvious Dallas was, from their perspective. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but...
(06-28-2021, 10:41 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Simmons and Russillo (two huge Luka guys) talked Dame destinations for like 20 minutes last night and I don't think it even occurred to them to mention Dallas. That's how not obvious Dallas was, from their perspective. Doesn't mean it won't happen, but...
What places did they mention?
I'm sure Philly came up. And of course their favorite Boston.
Also I wouldn't put any stock in Russillo and Simmons forgetting Dallas as a destination. These guys aren't impartial (and don't pretend to be). They're Celtic-diehards and are viewing it from that angle.
(06-28-2021, 09:59 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]With posts like these I'm starting to get excited.
It makes a lot of sense. DAL also has a young PG that has shown promise in Brunson (* though not nearly the level of prospect of say a Brandon Ingram that was the core of the AD trade).
What would be the final framework of the deal?
POR: Washington/Roizer/Brunson/ 2023 (CHA)+2025+2027 FRP w/ pick swaps in 2024+2026?
CHA: KP+JRich
DAL: Lillard/DJJr/McDaniels
Another angle I think if we're looking for a creative 3rd team could be either GSW or OKC. OKC has a glut of picks that they can never truly foster. They also already have some interesting prospects. I can see them trying to move Kemba quickly to a better situation, even if they have to attach a couple of picks/players to do so.
OKC: KP/JRich
POR: Kemba/Bazely/Brunson/ with all the picks as above but OKC provides 2023.
DAL: Dame/DJJr
Only thing that throws a wrench here is if POR is trying to save money, which they wouldn't be able to do with Kemba.
I do think GSW could be a very willing 3rd team because of their interest in KP too but as to building a quick framework I'm not sure of.
Quick edit: In the Harden deal the Nets traded 3 FRP (2022+2024+2026) with 4 pick swaps (2021+2023+2025+2027). If the Mavs can get a 2023 FRP unprotected they could match the 3 picks and 4 pick swaps frame works easily.
I was thinking the Dame would be a fantastic addition to DAL and would make opposing coaches lie awake nights trying to find a counter. But at first glance it appears that DAL would have to gut the roster, give up almost all draft participation and go into multi-year cap hell to get enough to trade.
Fortunately, older and wiser heads can see pathways us lesser beings cannot.
Getting Dame puts DAL back into using trades and FA signings to improve/maintain the roster instead of cheap draft talent. But with the expected draw of the new FO team, adding Dame to Luka
should be a big draw for anyone wanting a shot at the Larry O.
(06-28-2021, 10:50 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'm sure Philly came up. And of course their favorite Boston.
Also I wouldn't put any stock in Russillo and Simmons forgetting Dallas as a destination. These guys aren't impartial (and don't pretend to be). They're Celtic-diehards and are viewing it from that angle.
They talked Celtics briefly, but neither really thought that was likely (I was surprised).
Philly was absolutely discussed favorably.
GS, too.
I don't think they're the end-all-be-all for stuff like this, but they DID talk about the Dame/Kidd stuff when speculating as to why he wanted out of Portland...and never even mentioned Dallas once during the destination stuff.
(06-28-2021, 12:03 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]https://twitter.com/TheAthletic/status/1...5186333703
Yeah, I expect GS to be very aggressive. Wiseman (even if his value and diminished) plus pick # 7 is an intriguing package...especially to a rebuilding team who can point to two young prospects to develop. The question is who? It is not enough for Beal or Dame imo. Siakem is a good name. It ATL didn't get out of the first or second round, it could have been a solid return for Collins.
Mav related via the trade front, GS will probably be looking at the same type of players as the Mavs this offseason. Maxi, Brunson, DFS are better players than what GS can offer, but GS can offer substantial upside which probably gives them the much better offer if we are competing with the same team.
(06-28-2021, 11:05 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]They talked Celtics briefly, but neither really thought that was likely (I was surprised).
Philly was absolutely discussed favorably.
GS, too.
I don't think they're the end-all-be-all for stuff like this, but they DID talk about the Dame/Kidd stuff when speculating as to why he wanted out of Portland...and never even mentioned Dallas once during the destination stuff.
I keep seeing GSW mentioned as a trade partner but I don't see it. He plays the same position as Steph. With Klay their lineup would be lethal but also incredibly small.
Further I can't see POR trading Dame to the Warriors unless he explicitly said thats the only place he wants to go.
I just think podcasters want it to happen because GSW will be relevant again and the amount of content it'd brew would be fantastic.
(06-28-2021, 12:17 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Mav related via the trade front, GS will probably be looking at the same type of players as the Mavs this offseason. Maxi, Brunson, DFS are better players than what GS can offer, but GS can offer substantial upside which probably gives them the much better offer if we are competing with the same team.
Perhaps. But I also think Golden State is a prime candidate for a KP trade. So even if they might be looking at a few of the same players I also think there's room to work together on something that's mutually beneficial.
I don't think Myers is going to have any problem going all in with Wiseman + #7 + #14 + numerous future picks and picks swaps to get a real Top 10 player like Dame. Steph is in his prime. Draymond isn't getting any younger. Klay's prime window have been reduced with the injuries. No one in these playoffs looks like the 85 Celtics. What are they building for 3-4 years down the road? Time is now.
I think going back to Oakland will supersede Dame's reluctance to join a Superteam. He really does wear his love for Oakland on his sleeve, and I think his rap studio is based there.
Portland trading him to Golden State is probably the tricky part. But then again, if I'm in for a total rebuild post-Dame, I think GS offers the best package. You get immediate draft capital and capital down the road. And who knows, with the age on that GSW roster some of those mid-last 2020 picks might turn out pretty nice. If I'm Portland, rebuilding around Ben Simmons and a pu pu platter of late 1st round picks doesn't entice me at all, nor does the Knicks offers.
(06-28-2021, 01:08 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Time is now.
100%.
I was saying the same at the TDL, GSW is in a desperate win NOW situation. Future be damned, they will cash EVERYTHING in as needed.
In no world will the Raps trade Siakam for Wiseman + 7. Can anyone make the case, why they would do this?
In my eyes the only franchise for a KP trade is San Antonio. They can absorb him and have some kind of mid tier value to give back (ideally someone like Derrick White)
(06-28-2021, 12:17 PM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Mav related via the trade front, GS will probably be looking at the same type of players as the Mavs this offseason. Maxi, Brunson, DFS are better players than what GS can offer, but GS can offer substantial upside which probably gives them the much better offer if we are competing with the same team.
One non neglectable difference. Mavs can offer cap space while a big trade with GSW most likely means you are taking Wiggins contract.
(06-28-2021, 01:44 PM)Thukydides Wrote: [ -> ]In no world will the Raps trade Siakam for Wiseman + 7. Can anyone make the case, why they would do this?
They're ready to blow it up and rebuild? 2 top 10 picks and whatever else they can get for Lowry is a fantastic start.
Siakam is 26, which while not old, is a bit too old to restart a franchise around. Plus there have been dustups between him and Nurse and his talent isn't good enough to be a cornerstone.
I think the Raps blowing it up would make the most sense and best move long term.
(06-28-2021, 01:44 PM)Thukydides Wrote: [ -> ]In no world will the Raps trade Siakam for Wiseman + 7. Can anyone make the case, why they would do this?
I think Siakam is overpaid D and no 3 player who has mostly reached his ceiling with 27 years old. Wiseman is a former number 2 pick so there likely is some potential and n7 pick is good enough for decent hope to get another future star. Of course Toronto would also have to take Wiggins.
Ok we disagree over Siakam's and especially Wiseman's value. I agree, Raps should trade him, but this GSW offer wouldn't entice me