MavsBoard

(03-22-2021, 11:58 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. I'm not super plugged in on Orlando's situation, but I'm scratching my head as to why they'd want Smart. The only thing he's going to do in Orlando is bitch and moan until they send him to a good team, and the good teams aren't going to want to pay much for him.

My non-homer opinion is that I would take Brunson TODAY over Smart TODAY if I am Orlando, 100 times out of 100. I think Brunson is the more valuable trade piece by far....but of course that is just my opinion.

(03-23-2021, 12:00 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]My non-homer opinion is that I would take Brunson TODAY over Smart TODAY if I am Orlando, 100 times out of 100. I think Brunson is the more valuable trade piece by far....but of course that is just my opinion.

Duh...I didn't even think of Brunson. Of course they would. I don't think that's a homer take AT ALL.

(03-22-2021, 11:46 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]If Boston is seriously sending Smart+2 firsts for Gordon/Fournier, there's no way the Mavs can match that.

Nesmith + FRP + Smart was my guess.  The Mavs FRP is really not that valuable to a team that is blowing it up.

Mavs would need to offer up Brunson (FRP value), hope someone likes Green, make Terry and/or Bey available (again hoping someone likes them), DFS or Maxi and then picks.  

I'll be glad if we don't do business with Orlando.  It's just a gut thing, AG and/or EF seem fine, but you'd have to give up too much of your rotation and why would you want to replicate a decent chunk of a team know for not winning much?

If you are going all in, I'd push for Collins.  And if rumors have any truth to KP and Bogdan about their respective teams having buyers remorse, I'd gauge the interest in a KP for Collins/Bogdan swap as the principles.

KP/Burke/Iwundu matches up almost perfectly with Collins/Bogdan/Snell

I like KP. I think he has far more value than we realize - not just in trade, but on the floor.

But I like "KP for Collins-Capela" as the basic core of a deal with ATL. The money needs  a tweak, so there would be a bit more than just that, but it feels right.

(03-23-2021, 12:08 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]If you are going all in, I'd push for Collins.  And if rumors have any truth to KP and Bogdan about their respective teams having buyers remorse, I'd gauge the interest in a KP for Collins/Bogdan swap as the principles.

I just find it hard to believe the Mavs cut loose on KP after 2 short seasons. Even if this is all KP driven, the Mavs aren't one to jump ship so quickly.

For that alone it makes any KP deal to me too unrealistic to even consider as an avenue to improve.

But I think you have a good idea there. Brunson+DFS+Green+picks is a strong package for someone like Gordon/Collins. More so Gordon, less so Collins. 

Lets say ORL likes Brunson and decides to accept the Mavs offer of Brunson+Powell+Johnson+Green+DFS for Gordon+Fournier+Filler (Mo Bamba?/ Aminu?) 

They then can turn to a desperate team wanting wing help and can dangle THJ/JRich for a return package since Fournier would ideally be starting. 

I don't know. ORL is tricky to make a deal work and from the looks of it Gordon is too expensive. I guess it comes down to do I like Brunson+DFS more than Gordon+Fournier and it's hard to decide.

(03-23-2021, 01:06 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I just find it hard to believe the Mavs cut loose on KP after 2 short seasons. Even if this is all KP driven, the Mavs aren't one to jump ship so quickly.

For that alone it makes any KP deal to me too unrealistic to even consider as an avenue to improve.

But I think you have a good idea there. Brunson+DFS+Green+picks is a strong package for someone like Gordon/Collins. More so Gordon, less so Collins. 

Lets say ORL likes Brunson and decides to accept the Mavs offer of Brunson+Powell+Johnson+Green+DFS for Gordon+Fournier+Filler (Mo Bamba?/ Aminu?) 

They then can turn to a desperate team wanting wing help and can dangle THJ/JRich for a return package since Fournier would ideally be starting. 

I don't know. ORL is tricky to make a deal work and from the looks of it Gordon is too expensive. I guess it comes down to do I like Brunson+DFS more than Gordon+Fournier and it's hard to decide.

The issue with those AG ideas is that Boston's package seems a lot better.  I know there was some discussion about Brunson versus Smart earlier and I think the takes on Smart were way too negative.  Why does Boston put him on the table?  I'd think it's injury related more than anything.  While he certainly has limitations, he's a culture guy that lays it all out on the line.  And since Brown/Tatum are off the table, you have to give up something of value if you want to upgrade your team.  Smart just seems like the logical choice and Boston could certainly use a shake-up given the disappointment of this season.

If you look at your package: 

-Brunson or Smart:  If I'm Orlando I would probably prefer Brunson due to his age, potential, contract and need.  I've always thought Brunson was a great stop gap for Orlando who always seems to need PG help and if he didn't work out or fit with your two injured point guards, I'd think you could flip him for a first rounder next year fairly easily.  I don't think Smart is a bad choice either though.
-Powell:  Attaching him to a trade hurts your outgoing value.  He really hasn't shown anything this year.  Yes, he's a great culture guy but those guys work best when they are reliable contributors.  Nick Collison wouldn't have been loved by the Thunder if he wasn't in the rotation and contributing.
-Green:  You better hope the Magic scouts are on the same wave length as the Mavs.  Not to take a dig at Carlisle, but part of the issue in not playing rookies beyond development and experience is that it's hard to get value out of them in trades.  That's probably especially true of a project type player like Josh.
-DFS:  His shooting slump has put this boards opinion of him way too low.  His a + defender and was shooting the ball fairly well prior to the ASB.  He's also on a 4M a year contract for the next two years.  Any team would love to have his services at that price.  What's his value in a trade?  That's tough.  You could probably get a late FRP from a contender or a early SRP from a bottom feeder.  
-JJ: Salary filler.

From the Magic's perspective, they are probably heading for a rebuild and the idea of multiple first round picks (or Nesmith and a FRP) and Smart, who I can flip in the offseason or next TDL, is just a lot more attractive.  I guess they could really love Brunson or Green, but I'd have a hard time believing they love both.

I saw your thoughts on KP in the KP thread.  And I think you have the most charitable outlook on the KP situation which is fine.  It's probably a needed opposite and equal reaction to those on the other side of the fence.  I guess I fall somewhere between.  Something is definitely wrong with the product when those two share the court.  I'm with you though as I think the MBT will be stubborn on this.  I also don't believe that KP's value is as low as some here think, but I think you'd have a hard time recouping the assets you spent on him along with getting a player that can approximate his production.

(03-23-2021, 01:32 AM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]I think the takes on Smart were way too negative

Agree. He is a huge plus player, if you can make him buy in on your team. Mavs would desperately need a player like that to lift the defense. I wouldn't think twice to offer Brunson and I think his market value is way higher than that. I would certainly prefer to offer Green instead of Brunson, but let's say Orlando doesn't want him:
Dal: Smart, Aminu
Orl: Brunson, Johnson, draft compensation

I am probably the biggest Marcus Smart fan on this board. When he is healthy he is the best defensive guard in the league and a solid ballhandler + streaky shooter on offense. Right now he isn´t close to his best level. I think the situation is comparable to KPs. Celtics struggled and hoped that he would fix some of the problems. They rushed his comeback but it did not work out and Smart looked like a shadow of his former self.

I would love to have Smart on the team but I don´t think the Mavs should pay a premium price for him. I also don´t want the Mavs to be the team that pays him in free agency (summer 2022). Just don´t think that he can stay healthy. It´s not about lingering injuries or one big weakness (knee, back, ankle...). More about the way he plays. All out effort in every single game. Diving on the floor, taking charges, playing really physical. It´s catching up with his body and he is missing games because of it. That´s not going to change in his late 20s. Will probably get even worse.

Small bonus: Really good breakdown of Smart´s defense.

@"dirkfansince1998" you nailed my own thoughts on Smart really well.

(03-23-2021, 07:03 AM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Diving on the floor, taking charges, playing really physical. It´s catching up with his body and he is missing games because of it. That´s not going to change in his late 20s. Will probably get even worse.

Totally agree. But on the other hand - it just matters he is ready for playoffs. We can go easy on him in the regular season.

Richaun Holmes with 17 and 16 rebounds last night.   It appears he is in the Kings plans moving forward.  So if you want him this offseason, you better be prepared to go above the MLE.

Nice to see Charlotte (Sans Ball) beat San Antonio last night.

As far as the Mavs, I am pretty much discounting Gordon and Collins.   I just don't think we have enough to get in the game.  I may be wrong.   I thought Gordon would not be moved until the offseason yesterday, but that may have changed.   I don't think Collins is moved.   

Drummond and Fournier are both odd fits to our current team, but if the trade demands are not high, I think you have to do it.   I don't think we are an option with Drummond on the buyout market.   It just appears there are cleaner fits with some of the FA destination teams that would take preference over Dallas.   I am not sure which one I would prefer if the trade package was similar.   

I bet Dallas has sniffed around Oladipo, but I don't see that happening.

Other than that, I can see Dallas looking at players who may get released.   Maybe offer Johnson and a second round pick to secure a player rather than try to get him in the buyout market.

IF Orlando could land Smart, filler and 2 firsts for Gordon then they could flip Smart and Fournier to Dallas for Powell + Brunson and James Johnson + a 1st

Orlando comes out of the deal with 3 FRP's and Brunson for Fournier, Gordon, and the cost of taking on Powell. 

The question from Dallas' perspective would center on whether Smart could be enough of a playmaker to handle Brunson's load and improve the outlook.

(03-22-2021, 11:52 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]If what I read is true about Capella and non-casual Hawk fans...why would they give up two front court players for an oft injured one?  A unicorn...but oft injured one...and has issues with his teams current #1 offensive talent.

I dont know what you are talking about including in that deal to make it worth Hawks entertaining...but I keep reading that Capella is super important to them.   I guess rebounding and disrupting shots.

Why would they give up a sought after front court player(Collins) plus what some of their fans say is a super important front court player(Capella) for an oft injured front court player(KP)?

Seems like you would be weakening that team and they would be requiring you to back up the truck with assets.

They probably wouldn't, and not sure if the Mavs would pull this trigger either.  Trades are hard, and I don't see any scenario that both teams would agree to that brings Collins to the Mavs.  My biggest fear is that the Mavs do something really stupid like cut bait with THJ and JRich in order to chase Collins in free agency.  That would be a disaster.

(03-23-2021, 08:33 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]Richaun Holmes with 17 and 16 rebounds last night.   It appears he is in the Kings plans moving forward.  So if you want him this
offseason, you better be prepared to go above the MLE.

I'd happily give him $15m. WCS+Burke+Green would match salary in a sign & trade while allowing you to re-sign THJ/Richardson.

(03-23-2021, 08:33 AM)Chicagojk Wrote: [ -> ]but if the trade demands are not high

I think we have to be prepared that if we would like an impactful move it will come costly. There are always too many buyers when a good player becomes available. I think we have to be mentally prepared that the next guy will cost us our remaining assets. The only question for me is, who is the next guy. And honestly, I don't know. Many options like Dipo, Gordon, Collins, Fournier, Smart, Powell etc can be thrown around, but can we really be sure? All I know is, the move will have a substantial amount of risk involved. Either with injury, (too) high salary, or just not working.

Sacramento is not likely to be giving assets in a trade that returns WCS. Sacto is probably looking at moving other pieces and re-signing Holmes themselves.

Dinwiddie plus minor assets for Powell could make sense. As an expiring looking for 20+ mil contract, Toronto can't hope for a big get. Unless they are willing to resign him, which I doubt.

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