(06-27-2021, 07:12 PM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]I actually disagree with it. It's not like he can opt out in a year or two. The Blazers have no pressure or incentive to trade him to a team with crap assets. He isn't going to sit out for 3-4 years.
Dame: trade me to the Mavs
Oshey: they're offering 3 picks in the 20s, Brunson, and a poo poo platter. No thanks.
Dame: trade me to the Mavs
Oshey: or what? We just traded you to the Knicks. You can report there or go on the suspended list.
AD had the threat he wouldn't sign an extension with any team but the Lakers. Dame is locked in long term.
I mean, I'm not saying you have nothing valid here, because it is tough to imagine.
But, seems like Portland probably learned just as much from the Harden/Houston, Davis/NO things as we did.
(06-27-2021, 07:12 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Dame would just say Dallas.... But I have a hard time believing Dallas isn't going to be on guys list moving forward because of Luka. I think Nico could help. But I think Kidd absolutely helps. I really think word was out on Rick and nobody wanted to play here with him. Kidd has had stars wanting him to be their coach (Lebron and Dame) and stars that have loved him like Giannis. It sounds like he's had some guys not like him too... But I've always heard more guys wanting him than anyone specifically having issue with him.
I'm not saying he wouldn't want to come here, just that it's the biggest mountain to overcome. It's not even possible without that, and it's naive to start assuming this will be the case, imo.
(06-27-2021, 07:20 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]and it's naive to start assuming this will be the case
Who is assuming this? lol It is just fun to think about.
(06-27-2021, 07:26 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Who is assuming this? lol It is just fun to think about.
Fair. I don't mean to suck the fun out of anything.
I have just seen how this community gets when they're conned into thinking things are going to happen. I've been sucked in a time or two, myself. But, I suppose it's on each of us to meet fandom on our own terms.
It'd be nice if KP had more value, but I still think we have just enough assets plus contract flexibility to make a Dame deal work. It's just a question of whether we're really in his top 3
Hopefully! He's for sure someone we don't need to hold back on if he's out there for us. Throw everything we can
I think it's the typical defeatist attitude from Mavs fans that nobody would ever want to come here. Everything has changed except for Cuban in the last few years and I really haven't heard anything about Cuban just being so awful that nobody wants to come here because of him. Surely that would have come out by now.
I think there is a no chance we are getting Dame personally. I don't think Dame asks out yet for one. and we clearly currently don't have the assets. If the asset pool changes, then we can talk.
I think regardless of a Dame trade or not, Mavs main focus should be on increasing the asset pool however they can. Mavs need to be ready for the next star to ask out. We know it will come sooner or later. Every move should be viewed in the pursuit of gaining another star IMO. There's multiple ways to get them. Find a way. Because if you don't, there's a decent chance Luka leaves.
(06-27-2021, 07:34 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I think it's the typical defeatist attitude from Mavs fans that nobody would ever want to come here. Everything has changed except for Cuban in the last few years and I really haven't heard anything about Cuban just being so awful that nobody wants to come here because of him. Surely that would have come out by now.
What you're describing isn't how I feel, though.
I'm just remarking on the likelihood that he would choose Dallas as his FAVORITE destination. It's not about crapping on the good things about the (current) Mavericks, it's about not dismissing the good things about all other teams in the league in service of hope.
My point has nothing to do with Cuban, Luka or anything else. It's not about nay-saying. I'm literally just saying that there are 28 teams in this league besides Dallas and Portland. For all we know, every one of them has at least one employee who Dame likes.
If we hear he wants to play here, AWESOME. If we hear he doesn't, then that doesn't mean there's anything wrong with Cuban, Luka, Nico, Kidd, etc.
There are a MILLION reasons Dame may or may not want to play for any given team in the league. I'm just saying that for me, any excitement will begin with us actually learning that he wants to come here. I'll not assume it.
(06-27-2021, 07:33 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Fair. I don't mean to suck the fun out of anything.
I have just seen how this community gets when they're conned into thinking things are going to happen. I've been sucked in a time or two, myself. But, I suppose it's on each of us to meet fandom on our own terms.
It's known as Fishholm syndrome.
Ah yeah... I don't think that Dame is coming and I don't think anyone else is either. And I don't think they think Dallas is going to be his only destination. I mean you just don't see a star demand a trade to one specific team and one specific team only.
https://twitter.com/VinoUncorked/status/...86633?s=20
Sure LAL...
(06-27-2021, 07:53 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Ah yeah... I don't think that Dame is coming and I don't think anyone else is either. And I don't think they think Dallas is going to be his only destination. I mean you just don't see a star demand a trade to one specific team and one specific team only.
Yeah Dame on a super team would be a bummer. Rather he just stay in Portland if he is not available for the Mavs.
(06-27-2021, 05:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]That's why I'm a little doubtful the Mavs have any chance in a supposed Dame deal, unless POR is loyal to Dame and honors his request no matter the circumstances.
There certainly does feel like there's at least a tiny bit of smoke here. So, let's pretend this is the case and the best buddies with Nico and wants to be coached by Kidd is a thing. What is the minimum Portland would take.
BTW, over half of the 2023 picks have been dealt and most of those have some level of protection to them. We have to have an unprotected pick to free up 22, 24 and 26.
BTW II, NY doesn't have to say yes if we offer to remove the protection on our 2023 pick. There is precedent for this costing an additional second.
I'm not sure Portland would tear it down. But, I suspect they would prefer to be able to sign Powell, use the MLE and stay under the LT. So, cap room could be a factor in compensation. Fortunately, we can help with that. Those of us who thought DJJr. might be a player here might get a chance to find out if this were to happen.
McCollum, Powell, Covington and Nurkic would be a nice start if Nurkic could stay healthy. They like Simons and he gets some minutes at PG and could be the future there. But, do you bet the rest of McCollum's career on Simons or do we need to provide a starting PG as part of the exchange (I'm thinking someone better than Brunson).
I think the biggest question is how do they view KP. Is he a fit or would they rather have the assets we might get for KP? Does Hardaway have any value here?
It takes $31.4mm to match Lillard's $39.3mm saving almost $8mm. Ideally you'd do that rather than going under the cap. Then you'd create a TPE by trading JRich into space and take back Jones Jr. saving another $10mm. Unfortunately, that probably still isn't enough to get them under the tax.
I suspect (but don’t know) that tampering rules only apply to team employees/agents after they sign on the dotted line and not to Nike executives. Just saying.
(06-27-2021, 07:12 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]I don't think Dame would just say Dallas.... But I have a hard time believing Dallas isn't going to be on guys list moving forward because of Luka. I think Nico could help. But I think Kidd absolutely helps.
One of the things that seems to be pushing Dame out, is the attack on him because he signed for Billups hiring while he had rape allegations.
Him requesting a trade specifically to a guy pleaded guilty for domestic abuse isn't gonna improve those critism.
(06-27-2021, 07:57 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]BTW II, NY doesn't have to say yes if we offer to remove the protection on our 2023 pick. There is precedent for this costing an additional second.
They are also a team that can put a huge package for him using Dallas picks.
So why help us to beat them for trade? It isn't like if Portland agreed deal with Knicks he would say no, he will be the face of an improving Knicks team with crazy esposure
(06-27-2021, 07:57 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]BTW II, NY doesn't have to say yes if we offer to remove the protection on our 2023 pick. There is precedent for this costing an additional second.
I believe you, but do you have an example?
Quote:It takes $31.4mm to match Lillard's $39.3mm saving almost $8mm. Ideally you'd do that rather than going under the cap. Then you'd create a TPE by trading JRich into space and take back Jones Jr. saving another $10mm. Unfortunately, that probably still isn't enough to get them under the tax.
I'm sorta fascinated that KP is almost exactly at that minimum amount you cite to maximize cap savings. If Portland prefers another player to KP while stacking the cash, they could always flip him in a separate step-down trade that brings back about $25.3mm. Maybe they get another point guard that way. Come to think of it, Charlotte has a surplus and has been rumored to be interested in Porzingis.
What gets me is the same guys who are going after Billups and Kidd are probably giant Kobe fans.
Not saying sexual assault/domestic abuse is ok... But be consistent with how you judge people accused of it is all I'm saying.
Where was the outrage when those guys were hired as assistants or head coaches before?
(06-27-2021, 08:43 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]What gets me is the same guys who are going after Billups and Kidd are probably giant Kobe fans.
Not saying sexual assault/domestic abuse is ok... But be consistent with how you judge people accused of it is all I'm saying.
Kobe got plenty of that, but after his death it is tough to bring such topic for a guy who died in an accident that young, with his daughter.
And even then, there was a lot of , we know there were allegations, when he died.
(06-27-2021, 08:43 PM)cjeter24 Wrote: [ -> ]Where was the outrage when those guys were hired as assistants or head coaches before?
It is way different to be assistant, hiding in the shadow of the main guy, than leading coach for a super star.
It is also different times in 2021 than 2014
There were even rumours that those allegations where the reasons Kidd wasn't hired as head coach of the Lakers in 2019.
Not saying I agree with the response, companies are about business and not justice. It isn't their job to judge folks for things they did or accused for 2 decades ago. And I believe that even criminals has the right to get jobs without digging at their past at some point of their lives, if they aren't proven to be dangerous atm.
(06-27-2021, 07:18 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]If the Mavs gutted the team for Dame and gave many picks into the future and are left with just Luka, wouldn't they essentially still be the same plus Dame 
A good question of roster-building philosophy - if you have to strip your team of every useful player besides Luka in order to get Dame, is "Luka + Dame" going to be an upgrade? I wonder if you might get varying answers from NBA GMs, and certainly in this forum, which makes it a good question.
My own analysis? With a player who is as superior as Dame, it's "Luka + Dame" in a landslide for me.
What about the rest of the roster? I actually think it would make the subsequent roster building easier, not harder, because you now have role players who will jump on your bandwagon at a discount. That makes your cap go farther. OTOH, without that, every role player wants to get a huge payday to join your team, or to re-sign with you. There are no bargains, because they are your 2nd or 3rd best player and want to get paid accordingly.
I look at what players take to play alongside LBJ-Ad, or Kawhi-PG, or etc. Those teams can get real value for MLE or less. Alongside that Big 2, there are openings for minutes, and roles, and limited money, so that's what they sign for.
I don't think you can do it the other way around, where you sign the 2nd star last, because the role players want your unused cap room. To me, Mavs need to get the 2nd star, and then build the rest of the roles from there, and since they don't have that guy, imo they need to be all in to get that done.
(06-27-2021, 09:41 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Middleton having a game.
Maybe the most underrated player in the NBA?
![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media.giphy.com/media/3oKIPbNb1vWdftiVLq/giphy.gif)