(05-11-2021, 10:50 AM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Sometimes it just comes down to two teams swapping problems in the hopes of a better fit or situations. If the Mavs see their #1 need to address in the offseason is to bring in a 2nd scoring ball handler guard, then I can see the appeal of swapping out KP for Kemba. Especially if Conley/DeRozan/Lowry are staying with their current teams and/or going to require a massive overpays for their age to beat out other suitors in a bidding war. The Mavs might feel they could more efficiently address the big man position in the current free agent crop than the guard position.
If the Mavs were to trade for Walker, it would not involve KP. And it shouldn’t.
(05-11-2021, 04:00 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Walker to the Mavs? I wouldn't think so. Not under any scenario.
Too small, too injury-prone, too big of a contract, not enough impact.
He feels like the one the Celtics decided could propel them up the last rungs of the ladder, and instead gutted their potential. There's a lot of wasted money and minutes there, keeping them from being able to chase better answers to their flaws. I want no part of that ugly deal in Dallas.
Much rather have Brunson over Walker, and he's already here.
They probably dont want him now but he was the Mavs #1 and really ONLY target in free agency two years ago. I guess the Mavs were fighting the Celtics to propel themselves on the last rung and gut their potential. Story of Mavs free agency. Every target they've gone after has been a disaster so it's hard to say whether we should be happy or mad we can't get anyone in FA.
(05-11-2021, 10:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Did you not believe the reporting from Fish and others that Walker was their top priority in free agency the off season before last? It doesn't seem all that long ago to me, personally.
Didn't Cuban even come out and say: "Once Kemba was gone, Delon Wright was our 1st call."
Those words never cease to make me laugh.
(05-11-2021, 11:18 AM)jesusshuttlesworth82 Wrote: [ -> ]Story of Mavs free agency. Every target they've gone after has been a disaster so it's hard to say whether we should be happy or mad we can't get anyone in FA.
Mavs FA Curse.
D-Will- doesn't sign, ankles degenerate and forces him out. His team goes nowhere even after making big splashes
DHoward- Signs with HOU, never gels with Harden, health slowly goes down and never looks the same
DAJ- Basically never makes to the WCF, everyone who forced him to stay eventually leaves until he's the last one left.
Whiteside- Gets his contract and then never lives up to it, now a bench player and almost out of the league.
Conley- Wastes away in MEM for 3 years with injuries and underperforming. Gets to UTA and underperforms as well looking done. Only now is having a career year.
I am entirely convinced that when the Mavs do get a triple AAA free agent the curse will be broken.
(05-11-2021, 11:28 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs FA Curse.
D-Will- doesn't sign, ankles degenerate and forces him out. His team goes nowhere even after making big splashes
DHoward- Signs with HOU, never gels with Harden, health slowly goes down and never looks the same
DAJ- Basically never makes to the WCF, everyone who forced him to stay eventually leaves until he's the last one left.
Whiteside- Gets his contract and then never lives up to it, now a bench player and almost out of the league.
Conley- Wastes away in MEM for 3 years with injuries and underperforming. Gets to UTA and underperforms as well looking done. Only now is having a career year.
I am entirely convinced that when the Mavs do get a triple AAA free agent the curse will be broken.
Mannnnnnnnn I had forgotten about Whiteside.
(05-11-2021, 11:28 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Mavs FA Curse.
D-Will- doesn't sign, ankles degenerate and forces him out. His team goes nowhere even after making big splashes
DHoward- Signs with HOU, never gels with Harden, health slowly goes down and never looks the same
DAJ- Basically never makes to the WCF, everyone who forced him to stay eventually leaves until he's the last one left.
Whiteside- Gets his contract and then never lives up to it, now a bench player and almost out of the league.
Conley- Wastes away in MEM for 3 years with injuries and underperforming. Gets to UTA and underperforms as well looking done. Only now is having a career year.
I am entirely convinced that when the Mavs do get a triple AAA free agent the curse will be broken.
Even leaving the Mavs out of it, it's truly remarkable how often big FA signings disappoint in the NBA when they're not LeBron/KD caliber players given that it's a star/talent driven league. Things get really dicey when you overpay for age and/or overpay for guys to grow into roles that are much bigger than the ones they excelled at on their previous teams.
Nice piece about Collins future in Atlanta. The beat writer pointed out his usage lately and how it doesn't look it would make sense to pay him max with how he is used. Here is Hollinger conclusion:
Sum it all up, and I definitely have my phone out listening to sign-and-trade possibilities if I’m Schlenk. Failing that, I think the Hawks match any offer sheet less than $100 million. Above that, all bets are off.
https://theathletic.com/2574507/2021/05/...g-atlanta/
(05-11-2021, 12:31 PM)HanspardsShowerVoice Wrote: [ -> ]Even leaving the Mavs out of it, it's truly remarkable how often big FA signings disappoint in the NBA when they're not LeBron/KD caliber players given that it's a star/talent driven league. Things get really dicey when you overpay for age and/or overpay for guys to grow into roles that are much bigger than the ones they excelled at on their previous teams.
Harrison Barnes comes to mind. We signed him to be a #1 after being #4 with GS. He grew into a decent #2, or a solid #3. Didn't have #1 in him.
(05-11-2021, 02:50 PM)embellisher Wrote: [ -> ]Harrison Barnes comes to mind. We signed him to be a #1 after being #4 with GS. He grew into a decent #2, or a solid #3. Didn't have #1 in him.
Yep. Off the top of my head the others who fit this mold: Rashard Lewis in Orlando. Nic Batum in Charlotte. Josh Smith in Detroit. Al Harrington in Denver. Ryan Anderson in Houston. Bobby Simmons in Milwaukee. Larry Hughes in Cleveland.
(05-11-2021, 10:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Did you not believe the reporting from Fish and others that Walker was their top priority in free agency the off season before last? It doesn't seem all that long ago to me, personally.
And honestly, I do think some (not all, he's vastly underrated here) of the shine has worn off of him since, so I'm not calling him a prize acquisition, exactly, but we're talking about possible returns for a MAX player who misses a lot of games and doesn't play all that well when he's healthy. I don't know that anything good is a realistic trade goal. You think differently?
I don't think "what the Mavs thought of Walker two years ago" would be a determining factor in whether they might want him now. Times change. Everything about that prior decision - his play, his health, his impact, the Mavs situation, their alternatives, their needs, what they would need for that cap expense to make sense - all of it has changed. And taken together, by a fairly significant amount, I bet.
You'd think the Mavs were fairly idiotic if they didn't constantly update their thinking and decisions, I'm sure, and were instead stuck to a decision of the past.
The negatives that existed before - his size, and the huge contract he comes with - are still there. But the positives are not. It was believed that some of his negatives would not be such a factor if he could play on a better team, and instead it's work ed the other way around - instead of them making him better, he's made them worse.
Add in his lack of reliability, plus the fact that Brunson is already here and a way better fit than KW would be, and there's nothing in the massively overpaid, oft-injured, weak defense, mediocre 3, Walker that makes sense for the Mavs.
(05-11-2021, 03:53 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]The negatives that existed before - his size, and the huge contract he comes with - are still there. But the positives are not. It was believed that some of his negatives would not be such a factor if he could play on a better team, and instead it's work ed the other way around - instead of them making him better, he's made them worse.
Add in his lack of reliability, plus the fact that Brunson is already here and a way better fit than KW would be, and there's nothing in the massively overpaid, oft-injured, weak defense, mediocre 3, Walker that makes sense for the Mavs.
Fair enough. I don't have too much to argue about with your overall take. In the details of how you reached that conclusion, I'd push back on the following:
I don't believe "the negatives that existed before" are to blame for what he has or has not been in Boston - only his deteriorating injury situation. If
that makes him less attractive now, then so be it. That's certainly valid. But, had he stayed healthy these past two years, and if he ever again becomes healthy, I disagree that Brunson is a better player, especially in the Mavs' system. I have an extremely high opinion of Walker's abilities as a pick and roll handler. Brunson (who I'm super high on) is great at getting into the paint off of screens, but Walker's pull-up jumper trumps anything we've seen from Brunson. He's much more of a three-level scorer than Brunson is (so far). Walker was and might be again a pick and roll master.
I do agree that Brunson's further development this season needs to be part of the conversation, I'm just not ready to put him on the pre-Boston Walker level yet.
(05-11-2021, 02:49 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Nice piece about Collins future in Atlanta. The beat writer pointed out his usage lately and how it doesn't look it would make sense to pay him max with how he is used. Here is Hollinger conclusion:
Sum it all up, and I definitely have my phone out listening to sign-and-trade possibilities if I’m Schlenk. Failing that, I think the Hawks match any offer sheet less than $100 million. Above that, all bets are off.
I'd take Collins at 4/110 with it being frontloaded.
(05-11-2021, 04:56 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I'd take Collins at 4/110 with it being frontloaded.
Really not sure why you want to front load contracts at this point. With Luka´s max future capspace is more or less gone anyway. It was the smartest move during the rebuilding years. Pay them and have them on cheaper deals when the potential contention window opens. Reward some of the loyal vets big contracts.
Right now it would just take away from the last oportunity to add something to the current core.
(05-11-2021, 04:56 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]1 He's much more of a three-level scorer than Brunson is (so far).
2 Walker was and might be again a pick and roll master.
1 While that may be true as to quantity (so far in JB's career), I don't think it is regarding efficiency. Brunson is already surpassing KW's shooting percentages (career, and current) from the floor, and still trending upward.
2 I'm not convinced that pnr is the be-all end-all of basketball play. It's one skill, but there are other ways to create offense too, and I think JB is already showing significant ability to create offense.
You might take a peek at KW's stats in his 1st 3 seasons, and also remember who he was in college compared to Brunson. JB compares very favorably. In college they were the same guy - team leader, PG, taking team to great heights, but undersized. (Burke is in the same mold, fwiw.) Brunson is actually showing more NBA efficiency than KW did in his early NBA years. The only diff is that KW got more minutes, so his numbers were bigger.
JB is the biggest of the 3 btw.
(05-11-2021, 05:13 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Really not sure why you want to front load contracts at this point. With Luka´s max future capspace is more or less gone anyway
Front loaded contracts are easier to trade. I look at the contracts of Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield, and Aaron Gordon and see they are extremely valuable trade chips.
Should Collins work out, he becomes an extreme value piece with a nice asset in his contract. If it doesn't, his contract always will boost his trade value.
(05-11-2021, 06:23 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Front loaded contracts are easier to trade. I look at the contracts of Harrison Barnes, Buddy Hield, and Aaron Gordon and see they are extremely valuable trade chips.
Should Collins work out, he becomes an extreme value piece with a nice asset in his contract. If it doesn't, his contract always will boost his trade value.
But they also limit the options in the last summer with capspace before Luka get his max. If the Mavs are already thinking about the potential future trade value of their big signing they probably shouldn´t sign whoever they target in the first place.
(05-11-2021, 06:37 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Knicks fan tonight
With the megaturd this team laid tonight, I feel like one of those Knicks fans from a few years ago who attended games with paper bags on their heads.
(05-11-2021, 07:13 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]But they also limit the options in the last summer with capspace before Luka get his max. If the Mavs are already thinking about the potential future trade value of their big signing they probably shouldn´t sign whoever they target in the first place.
That's fair. On the other hand I hope the Mavs forget about cap space. It can always be made. If a player wants to come there will always be avenues to make it happen, cap space or not. So if front loading a contract ruins flexibility I don't see it as a negative.
Further I disagree with you regarding the Mavs keeping it in the back of their mind about trade values before they sign someone. Just because the Mavs sign someone they intend to trade within the year doesn't mean the signing was a bad one. Good teams do it all the time. Get the good player even if the fit is wonky, trade him for assets later to a team that actually wanted that player.
Warriors did it with Russell, and while that season became a lost one due to injuries, no one expected the Warriors to keep him through the year. They then flip him into a valued pick that can really help. Mavs did it somewhat with DAJ signing him to a 1 year deal and then flipping him in a trade for KP (though DSJ was the center package).
Anyways that's beside the point. All in all I'd rather lose some immediate flexibility in a signing for Collins to get later flexibility down the road. Especially because Collins fit isn't hand in glove.