MavsBoard

(01-28-2021, 04:29 PM)cow Wrote: [ -> ]THJ has dumb brain from time to time during his shot selection.  He also has some of the worst misses you'll see for a 3PT specialist.  I'm thinking back to him hitting the side of the backboard in the playoffs last year.

Not defending the worst of THJ, and not scolding people for being frustrated by it. Just saying that with shooters, you have to live with some of that, and that it's fairly universal. I think THJ has had some recent games in which his shot selection was HORRIBLE, but not nearly as many as people claim, and further, it's not like the offense has been a well-oiled machine out there. He's trying to make something happen, just like the rest of the Mavs. Hell, yesterday, one of his only bad shots happened at the end of a possession when Trey Burke did 15 seconds of absolutely nothing and then flipped the ball to Hardaway with like 3.5 on the shot clock. I think THJ gets a lot of hate for being the guy willing to attempt those shots, though I agree that at times he forces them, too. 

Believe it or not, I have witnessed the same types of mistakes from Robinson, Reddick, etc.

(01-28-2021, 04:45 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Not defending the worst of THJ, and not scolding people for being frustrated by it. Just saying that with shooters, you have to live with some of that, and that it's fairly universal. I think THJ has had some recent games in which his shot selection was HORRIBLE, but not nearly as many as people claim, and further, it's not like the offense has been a well-oiled machine out there. He's trying to make something happen, just like the rest of the Mavs. Hell, yesterday, one of his only bad shots happened at the end of a possession when Trey Burke did 15 seconds of absolutely nothing and then flipped the ball to Hardaway with like 3.5 on the shot clock. I think THJ gets a lot of hate for being the guy willing to attempt those shots, though I agree that at times he forces them, too. 

Believe it or not, I have witnessed the same types of mistakes from Robinson, Reddick, etc.

THJ cases of dumb brain have declined as his tenure with the Mavs has grown.

The Rockets are really good now so add them to the mix of playoff contenders along with the Mavs.  It's just not looking good this year. I have the feeling it's gonna be a rough spring for the Mavs and Heat

(01-28-2021, 04:17 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Robinson was 1/9 from 3 against the Mavs earlier this year, and has put up several other games like that

Don't you always tell me that shooters go cold sometimes whenever we talk about THJ?  

(01-28-2021, 04:17 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]He's a great shooter, but I'm just going to keep saying it: the things you hate about THJ are going to be there with ANY shooter you watch on a night to night basis.

I think you're undervaluing Robinson as a shooter. He isn't just a great shooter, he's one of the league's best. Top 5. Arguably top 3 given how impactful he is to Miami and the role he plays there. He might have some off nights, but his variance is not nearly that of THJ's. One of these days I'll actually sit down and calculate the individual sample variance's for THJ and whatever shooter we're looking at to see the numbers. 

No matter, we're talking about Robinson, who by in large would breakout here. I could see him as a Klay Thompson lite standing next to Luka getting all these open threes. For the same reasons I'd want Buddy, Robinson would be my go to.
 

(01-28-2021, 04:17 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Robinson plays less defense than Curry, who plays less defense than Hardaway.

Robinson's defense isn't good, and the defensive metrics paint him out to be a poor defender, he was still good enough to play nearly 30mpg as a starter on a team that bullied it's way to the finals last season. So, it can't be that terrible. 

And before you mention how Miami has some elite defenders in Bam and Jimmy, the Mavs theoretically also have some great defensive players in DFS/KP/JRich. So I think it'd work just fine.

(01-28-2021, 11:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Don't you always tell me that shooters go cold sometimes whenever we talk about THJ?  

Yes. That's my entire point. If Robinson played here, people would complain about him missing shots about 7 games into his Mavs career. 

(01-28-2021, 11:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I think you're undervaluing Robinson as a shooter. He isn't just a great shooter, he's one of the league's best. Top 5

No, sir. I value him EXTREMELY highly. Said it all off-season: The best guard shooters in the NBA last year, from the angle that matters to me (high percentage on an insanely high amount of attempts) were Robinson, Reddick and Hield. #4? THJ. Percentages are cool, but percentages from the guys whose role is to get open and empty the clip impress me more. THJ was one of those guys last year, and it was a HUGE factor in the Mavs' success. 

Right now, this moment:

Robinson: .404% on 8.6 attempts per
THJ: .397% on 8 attempts flat (in an offense MUCH less functional than last season's)

To be fair, it seems like Miami is having issues of their own, but these guys aren't in two totally different leagues as shooters at all.

(01-28-2021, 11:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]He might have some off nights, but his variance is not nearly that of THJ's.

This is the notion that I was specifically addressing and with which I disagree. I remember EVERY conversation I have with people here, and my original comment was meant to pick right up where you and I last left off. Robinson is the same, dude. 1/9 one night. 7/9 two days later. The end percentage was a little higher than THJ's last year. He had a better shooting season, and he's one of a few guys who are probably better than THJ, but they were both in the top 5 of high volume shooters and NEITHER has a long history of consistently doing it (like Reddick, for example). I don't see how switching the guy in that role from one top 5 dude in the league to another who's slightly higher on the list is going to fix what's ailing the Mavs.

(01-28-2021, 11:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Robinson's defense isn't good, and the defensive metrics paint him out to be a poor defender, he was still good enough to play nearly 30mpg as a starter on a team that bullied it's way to the finals last season. So, it can't be that terrible. 

And before you mention how Miami has some elite defenders in Bam and Jimmy, the Mavs theoretically also have some great defensive players in DFS/KP/JRich. So I think it'd work just fine.

It's not great defenders that I'd point to, it's that Miami has already established a much better defensive culture than the Mavs (probably helped by their defenders tho - mostly Bam). Or, at least they did last season - it's a big part of why they made it to the finals. Robinson plays hard on defense, and will probably end up being a good system defender if he isn't already, but athletically, he's not as good on that end as Hardaway, imo. 

Look, I'm not trying to trash Robinson. I love the kid. Was talking about him here nonstop during the bubble playoffs. Like, daily. I've just taken a vow to defend THJ from undeserved criticism. The deserved criticism is fine. In case you are unaware, the first thing Biden did after being sworn in was to make me the sole official decider of what's fair and unfair criticism of THJ. I can't let our nation down by taking this task lightly. It is my job.

(01-29-2021, 12:18 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Look, I'm not trying to trash Robinson. I love the kid. Was talking about him here nonstop during the bubble playoffs. Like, daily. I've just taken a vow to defend THJ from undeserved criticism. The deserved criticism is fine. In case you are unaware, the first thing Biden did after being sworn in was to make me the sole official decider of what's fair and unfair criticism of THJ. I can't let our nation down by taking this task lightly. It is my job.

 

omg, hahaha

In all seriousness, though -- never desert your post!

(01-29-2021, 12:28 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]omg, hahaha

If you don't believe me, PM me your contact info and I'll show you the official letter he sent me. It was hand-written, drafted on his first sheet of white house stationary. This was important to him. Rightfully so. I just hope I don't let him down.

EDIT: WHAT AM I THINKING???! I'll just send it to FSSW, c/o Mark Followil.

(01-29-2021, 12:18 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Robinson is the same, dude. 1/9 one night. 7/9 two days later. The end percentage was a little higher than THJ's last year.

I'm not trying to ignore the rest of your post, but I wanted to highlight this little part.

I vehemently deny that Robinson is the same. Sure, shooters do have SOME off nights. That is a given but not all misses are created equally. I obviously have a better grasp of THJ and how he plays, but I watch a lot of Robinson too and he rarely, if ever, makes what I call a play born from the JR Smith Basketball camp. In this class of player, these guys also might have more off nights than others, and that's why they aren't paid the max. 

But without really getting into the statistical analyses (I'd run a variance test, an ANOVA and add a couple of more shooters like Curry and Hield to compare), we can't definitively say that one is more consistent than the other. However from box score watching, impact on team, and most importantly track record, Robinson is by far and away more consistent than THJ and I didn't think that was a controversial statement nor slander! 

And that's my main sticking point. I'm not arguing that THJ isn't a good scorer, he is. It is undeniable that he has talent to put the ball in the hoop. But he is handicapped most by his decision making of when/how to put the ball in the hoop. And it's those kinds of little mistakes that can singlehandedly ruin momentum (or swing it entirely in your favor), and is a randomness I don't think this team needs. I also feel like those kinds of choices build up and can let a game get away from you. KP/Luka does the same thing two so it's amplified when 3 of your best scorers all partake.

I do think they need the scoring that THJ provides, but that's why I'm looking for guys that bring that type or scoring (or at least spacing) that doesn't also bring with them puzzling decision making and wild swings for multiple games.

---

(01-29-2021, 12:18 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]In case you are unaware, the first thing Biden did after being sworn in was to make me the sole official decider of what's fair and unfair criticism of THJ. I can't let our nation down by taking this task lightly. It is my job

I was wondering what 1 of those 30+ executive orders Biden signed was for! Now it all makes sense...

(01-29-2021, 12:31 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't believe me, PM me your contact info and I'll show you the official letter he sent me. It was hand-written, drafted on his first sheet of white house stationary. This was important to him. Rightfully so. I just hope I don't let him down.

EDIT: WHAT AM I THINKING???! I'll just send it to FSSW, c/o Mark Followil.

hahaha, I believe you. 

I applied for that job, but never heard back. Glad to know I lost out to a worthy competitor! 

just laughing with joy, lolol

(01-28-2021, 11:54 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Robinson's defense isn't good, and the defensive metrics paint him out to be a poor defender

Where is this coming from? Duncan Robinson was tied for 9th in the whole NBA in DRPM last year with Giannis.

(01-29-2021, 12:52 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]Where is this coming from? Duncan Robinson was tied for 9th in the whole NBA in DRPM last year with Giannis.

I did not know that stat for him (to be fair I didn't look it up). Was mainly looking at his below average individual DRTG and below average DBPM. 

But my final conclusion was despite what some metrics might say, Robinsons defense can't be THAT bad because he was a starter on a team that went to the finals where he guarded some tough matchups.

The DRPM just further builds that case.

(01-29-2021, 12:57 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]individual DRTG and below average DBPM

Yeah I don't really care for those numbers....he is going to suck in them because he isn't a rebounder or big steals/blocks guy. 

With MIA he has been an above average NBA team defender and I don't think there is any reason to think that will change.

Really thought that Batum was done. Turns out that he is still really good. Best player on a Clippers team without Kawhi and PG in a win @Miami.
Averaging 10/5/3 for the season. Shooting nearly 50/40/90. Clippers signed him for the vet min. One of the biggest steals of the offseason.

(01-29-2021, 12:28 AM)mavsluvr Wrote: [ -> ]In all seriousness, though -- never desert your post!

(01-29-2021, 12:15 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]

haha

like ur new title

(01-27-2021, 11:17 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm telling you, man. I have watched him hurt his team to put up rebounding numbers for years, just like DAJ did here. 

Those who were disappointed to see DAJ go in that trade would be happy to add Drummond, but those who thought the subtraction of Jordan was a GOOD thing (like me) would hate the guy. 

He's the quintessential "empty stats" guy, imo.

He would be insane on the Nets. Forget the empty stats, he's never been around the collection of scorers they have. More boards means more shot opportunities. If the Nets get him look out.

(01-29-2021, 12:56 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]He would be insane on the Nets. Forget the empty stats, he's never been around the collection of scorers they have. More boards means more shot opportunities. If the Nets get him look out.

Someone has to play defense. Nets don´t need to worry about 2-3 extra possessions. They need someone that can anchor the defense in a starting five with 2-3 mediocre defenders. That´s not exactly Drummonds strength.

(01-29-2021, 12:31 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]If you don't believe me, PM me your contact info and I'll show you the official letter he sent me. It was hand-written, drafted on his first sheet of white house stationary. This was important to him. Rightfully so. I just hope I don't let him down.

EDIT: WHAT AM I THINKING???! I'll just send it to FSSW, c/o Mark Followil.

You sure that wasn't the note #45 left in the Resolute desk on the 21st?

(01-29-2021, 01:06 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Someone has to play defense. Nets don´t need to worry about 2-3 extra possessions. They need someone that can anchor the defense in a starting five with 2-3 mediocre defenders. That´s not exactly Drummonds strength.

Fair enough. They lost two of their better defenders in Allen and Prince.