(12-28-2020, 10:23 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So the dictionary definition of "impatient" is "restlessly eager" and I think that 100% describes the majority of this message board. This board tends to be "restlessly eager" to make roster upgrades....hence "impatient." If you choose to be offended by that, that is on you. I am just attempting to state the reality of the situation, I am not saying those with that position are "horrible people."
There is then a minority position on this board that is wanting to not take risks in roster moves unless it is for a very clear and obvious jump in talent. This is the "patient" group.
That's it man, nothing else to see here.
Yeah, nothing to see, just like the "lazy armchair GMs" comment. Since it doesn't matter to you, I propose a little change of terminology. Lets call the "impatient" ones brave and the "patient" ones hesitant. I am in no way implying people with that position are "horrible".
Or perhaps we avoid putting label marks on people and discuss ideas...
(12-28-2020, 11:13 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]How in the world did the Nets lose to the Hornets? That's a problem, we play them next.
This actually makes me more comfortable. I would be more affraid if Charlotte came to us with the 0-3 record. Now it is just a perfect timing for them to register another loss
(12-28-2020, 11:43 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Or perhaps we avoid putting label marks on people and discuss ideas...
I am all for avoiding putting labels on folks and I am sorry if you thought that is what is happening.
I would also suggest that we give each other the benefit of the doubt and not hunt for reasons to be offended.
(12-28-2020, 09:43 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Either he is bad defensively (LaVine) or his durability is a concern (Oladipo). I am sure Mavs have way more information than we will ever have to (mor) acurately assess those risks. I would prefer to keep THJ if possible and make Johnson the salary filler. It is very likely we will be able to resign him at TDL anyway, if we like him so much. Hield can be an interesting option, also DeRozan.
One thing is becoming very certain - Chicago will have a huge firesale in a couple of months (even sooner?) if they don't start performing way better.
I would agree that we are one piece away, IF we did not have to cover for the Porzingis injury concern, but we absolutely have to imho. You can´t have every play-offs hang in the balance due to his health. That´s just too frustrating as a fan and more importantly as a player. I don´t think it´s that hard to find that replacement level starting quality PF/C, but we need to get him.
I´m not worried about the defense with Lavine. We can make offense/defense switches. Lavine basically made the game-winner against the Warriors, cause no way is Carlisle dumb enough to leave Lavine out there on defense for the last possession (out of a timeout). Billy Donovan mailing it in after three games already.
Though fair play to the scrub to hit a fairly contested three over Lavine.
(12-28-2020, 11:43 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Yeah, nothing to see, just like the "lazy armchair GMs" comment. Since it doesn't matter to you, I propose a little change of terminology. Lets call the "impatient" ones brave and the "patient" ones hesitant. I am in no way implying people with that position are "horrible".
Or perhaps we avoid putting label marks on people and discuss ideas...
This actually makes me more comfortable. I would be more affraid if Charlotte came to us with the 0-3 record. Now it is just a perfect timing for them to register another loss
Agreed desperation is your enemy. Just ask the now historic Clippers.
(12-28-2020, 12:28 PM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]Future Mav
This could actually make a potential Jarrett Allen trade easier, depending on whether they feel the need to replace Dinwiddie´s production immediately (via THJ + WCS e.g.). Looking at their roster though, seems more likely they´ll just try to cover this from within. They still have T. Johnson, Luwawu-Cabbarot and Kurucs.
(12-27-2020, 11:46 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Something at that high of a franchise altering level might not be completely up to him, less than two months into the job.
add in the fact that the trade can't work as a straight swap. the other pieces make a big difference in a Harden trade for Simmons or most any other player that might headline the deal.
(12-28-2020, 10:07 AM)DanSchwartzman Wrote: [ -> ]Frank hitting 2/3'rds of his 3's so far this season. It probably won't last
I genuinely thought Franky Smokes was out of the league. Good to see him still kicking. Good be a good 2-way pickup in a couple of years.
(12-28-2020, 10:23 AM)Kammrath Wrote: [ -> ]So the dictionary definition of "impatient" is "restlessly eager" and I think that 100% describes the majority of this message board.
I think that describes every message board on the internet. People are results driven and in the age of instant gratification, want those results now.
Is it really that surprising that people want to make big shakeups for players that are perceived to be great so we can form a 'superteam' and stomp the league? I don't think this line of thinking is wrong. Maybe a bit pie in the sky, but I've seen crazier things happen in 2020.
I don't think making a trade 5 games into the season is smart, but it's hard to believe the Mavs won't make a trade this year. The roster is wonky. We have 6 centers with KP/WCS/Powell/Boban/Johnson/Maxi. We have 2 shooting guards in the starting lineup with JRich and THJ. DFS is being played PF when he's definitely a wing.
Dan pointed out in the game summary that RC's rotations are less platoon-ey to get around this weird construction. I don't think it qualifies as being impatient for recognizing deficiencies and try to correct them, and I don't think anyone here is saying to trade everyone tomorrow. If Donnie doesn't at least try to make deals at the TDL then he's not doing his job.
(12-28-2020, 10:46 AM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Thinking objectively about the Harden situation - and looking at what the Spurs got back for Kawhi - I'm ready to make a prediction.
Harden --> Pacers
Oladipo + Turner + pick --> Rockets
All yall are sleeping on Portland. I called it a week ago. CJ+Collins+Simons and whatever picks for Harden+Tucker.
(12-28-2020, 11:13 AM)StepBackJay Wrote: [ -> ]How in the world did the Nets lose to the Hornets? That's a problem, we play them next.
Same way the Clippers lost to the Mavericks. Effort.
(12-28-2020, 01:51 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I think that describes every message board on the internet. People are results driven and in the age of instant gratification, want those results now.
Is it really that surprising that people want to make big shakeups for players that are perceived to be great so we can form a 'superteam' and stomp the league? I don't think this line of thinking is wrong. Maybe a bit pie in the sky, but I've seen crazier things happen in 2020.
I don't think making a trade 5 games into the season is smart, but it's hard to believe the Mavs won't make a trade this year. The roster is wonky. We have 6 centers with KP/WCS/Powell/Boban/Johnson/Maxi. We have 2 shooting guards in the starting lineup with JRich and THJ. DFS is being played PF when he's definitely a wing.
Dan pointed out in the game summary that RC's rotations are less platoon-ey to get around this weird construction. I don't think it qualifies as being impatient for recognizing deficiencies and try to correct them, and I don't think anyone here is saying to trade everyone tomorrow. If Donnie doesn't at least try to make deals at the TDL then he's not doing his job.
Hey, lots of great posts lately, SH! A few thoughts...
Folks that aren't in a rush to make an immediate trade would also like to build a dynasty. And they'd probably cheer a sudden trade that made the Mavs better. I hope so anyway.
Not sure about the "6 centers" thing. I've been a "1 big" proponent. But it looks like the Mavs like to play some of those guys you list with centers. Also, THJ and JRich both playing as wings is not unusual these days in the NBA. It doesn't seem too wonky to me. Also, it's been rare over the years for Rick to use platooned lineups. Staggered is more typical of his lineups.
All of that is to say, I don't see the need for a roster balancing trade. Always open to a talent increasing trade, as long as it doesn't make us worse by making us too top heavy.
(12-28-2020, 01:51 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]All yall are sleeping on Portland. I called it a week ago. CJ+Collins+Simons and whatever picks for Harden+Tucker.
I think Harden is shipped East, for obvious reasons. Plus the Portland owner and Dame both love McCollum. I don't think they'll blow up that backcourt unless they know their offseason moves have failed to make the team better. I also don't think Houston will throw Tucker into a Harden deal. They want (and will get) real independent value for Tucker.
Back to my Indiana idea ... they're already a sneaky good playoff team. Under the radar a bit. A Harden deal could be their Toronto Raptors moment. I don't think it puts them over the top, but Harden is such a massive game changer they'd be extremely dangerous and fun to watch. Harden has never played with a guy like Sabonis. I'd love to see him off ball, playing through a center. Lots of creative potential for Bjorkgren (who coincidentally helped the Raps win a Championship with Kawhi).
For Houston, they'll get an All Star caliber SG in Dipo (discounted for injury risk & contract) in a deal that feels similar to Kawhi for DeRozan + Poetl + pick. Turner is the wild card. I think he clearly has more value than Poetl but Dipo has less value than DeRozan did when he was moved, simply because of his durability & contract situation.
Houston could certainly flip Turner for value but I don't see the Rockets going into full rebuild. I like the idea of Turner next to Wood. That's a potentially salty 24-25 year old frontcourt -- with shooting, athleticism and rim protection.
Houston's new backcourt carries obvious injury risk but it looks like both Oladipo and Wall can still play.
Wall
Oladipo
Gordon
Wood
Turner
That lineup will surprise some people; and if things go well it's a playoff team.
(12-28-2020, 02:29 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]Back to my Indiana idea ...
In general from player value perspective I think the idea is sound. Indy would have to throw in picks but if you are trading for Harden, that is not a limitation. You can't compare one on one with the Kawhi trade, because he was expiring while Harden has two years left. So value has to be much higher.
That being said, I think Indy has a very low tolerance level for behaviour Harden has sported in the last weeks. Indy type of deal would be trading their players for young developing guys.
(12-28-2020, 02:29 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]they're already a sneaky good playoff team
I always thought they were good, but failed to deliver in playoffs. They were also unlucky with injuries. If healthy, I could see them as totally possible option to win the East.
(12-28-2020, 02:28 PM)fifteenth Wrote: [ -> ]Hey, lots of great posts lately, SH! A few thoughts...
Folks that aren't in a rush to make an immediate trade would also like to build a dynasty. And they'd probably cheer a sudden trade that made the Mavs better. I hope so anyway.
Not sure about the "6 centers" thing. I've been a "1 big" proponent. But it looks like the Mavs like to play some of those guys you list with centers. Also, THJ and JRich both playing as wings is not unusual these days in the NBA. It doesn't seem too wonky to me. Also, it's been rare over the years for Rick to use platooned lineups. Staggered is more typical of his lineups.
All of that is to say, I don't see the need for a roster balancing trade. Always open to a talent increasing trade, as long as it doesn't make us worse by making us too top heavy.
Good points. I don't think team patient vs team brave is that different from one another. Just one is more cautious to rock the boat, while the other is motivated to get better on paper.
Same coin... almost the same side?
In any case I do think the roster is a bit imbalanced and needs to eventually be addressed through a trade. Whether that be shipping of WCS for a minor piece or making a big splash with what's left with our assets, I don't know. But I do think that the best avenue for this team to get better is through trades and I don't trust Donnie in free agency.
(12-28-2020, 01:51 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I think that describes every message board on the internet. People are results driven and in the age of instant gratification, want those results now.
Yes, 100% agree. That is why when I said "impatient message board fans" I believe I was just observing the reality and state of things here and in our culture at large.
(12-28-2020, 02:29 PM)vfromlmf Wrote: [ -> ]I think Harden is shipped East, for obvious reasons.
My stealth deal I could eventually see happening is Harden going to Boston with Kemba ending up in Dallas and a bunch of picks, younger players, and expirings from both teams going to Houston. While his medical status is a bit of a gray area, we know Dallas likes Kemba and isn't afraid of buying low on a good player and betting on their medical staff to build them back up.
(12-28-2020, 04:10 PM)Tyler Wrote: [ -> ]While his medical status is a bit of a gray area
I am terrified about his future health, almost as much as Dipo. And I am on record that I despise Kemba's length and lack of defense next to Luka.
(12-28-2020, 01:51 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]All yall are sleeping on Portland. I called it a week ago. CJ+Collins+Simons and whatever picks for Harden+Tucker.
And I'll again ask to figure out a way to route CJ here. :p