(05-10-2021, 10:53 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Struggling? Yes, maybe. Struggling worse than Porzingis has this season? I say no. KP has made the team WORSE when he has been healthy this season. The team is BETTER right now, specifically BECAUSE he's NOT playing.
I would take Walker back, but if that's not consensus, we need to understand that a GOOD, wart-free max level player isn't coming back. It's either continue to underachieve with KP, take someone like Walker (if you're lucky) or dump KP for savings, just like NY did. The move was a failure. Good thought, and I would've jumped on it. I don't blame the MBT a bit, but OMG continuing down this road seems insane to me.
There is no doubt in my mind that the FO disagrees with you. The only thing that makes them trade him for the peanuts you guys believe is his value is if he's demanding a trade.
(05-10-2021, 11:00 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]There is no doubt in my mind that the FO disagrees with you. The only thing that makes them trade him for the peanuts you guys believe is his value is if he's demanding a trade.
Glad you're sure. We'll see.
When you have peanuts, trading them for other peanuts (hopefully better fitting peanuts) makes all the sense in the world.
(05-10-2021, 10:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: 200.gif]](https://media2.giphy.com/media/5thaAuHCJwhLbKwu94/200.gif)
https://gph.is/g/ZrGvAJ1
(05-10-2021, 11:01 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Glad you're sure. We'll see.
When you have peanuts, trading them for other peanuts (hopefully better fitting peanuts) makes all the sense in the world.
Your peanuts are my and the FO's pistachios.
(05-10-2021, 10:53 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Struggling? Yes, maybe. Struggling worse than Porzingis has this season? I say no. KP has made the team WORSE when he has been healthy this season. The team is BETTER right now, specifically BECAUSE he's NOT playing.
I would take Walker back, but if that's not consensus, we need to understand that a GOOD, wart-free max level player isn't coming back. It's either continue to underachieve with KP, take someone like Walker (if you're lucky) or dump KP for savings, just like NY did. The move was a failure. Good thought, and I would've jumped on it. I don't blame the MBT a bit, but OMG continuing down this road seems insane to me.
I am not arguing that you might be on to some scenario where Kemba overachieves with the Mavs. I think some questioned Chris Pauls age and longevity...he has proved the doubters wrong. Paul is a different level than Walker no doubt. You could be very right that Kemba comes to the Maves and provides 2 years of secondary play making that the Mavs need.
But...does a Front Office take that risk on a player of his age, size, injury history and overall game?
Im in the camp of get someone injury free and younger. Your suggestion of getting a gray beard that fits a need for this team might end up being the choice that might reap the best rewards....but does an organization take this risk?
(05-10-2021, 11:12 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]I am not arguing that you might be on to some scenario where Kemba overachieves with the Mavs. I think some questioned Chris Pauls age and longevity...he has proved the doubters wrong. Paul is a different level than Walker no doubt. You could be very right that Kemba comes to the Maves and provides 2 years of secondary play making that the Mavs need.
But...does a Front Office take that risk on a player of his age, size, injury history and overall game?
Im in the camp of get someone injury free and younger. Your suggestion of getting a gray beard that fits a need for this team might end up being the choice that might reap the best rewards....but does an organization take this risk?
It is all about how do they perceive KP.
Are we really better with him? Do they think he can be healthy in 2 playoff appearances out of 3 in his remaining contract year?
Because if answer is no, which is very possible, then the risk we take on someone like Kemba isn't that much of a risk.
You take a chance on a player who could be very good fit and if it fails, he is an expiring contract.
It is the question if the Mavs think KP is going to be positive or negative value throw near future, if he negative value then cutting one year of his contract is worth it.
(05-10-2021, 11:01 PM)ItsGoTime Wrote: [ -> ]https://gph.is/g/ZrGvAJ1
Well, Kemba has been playing well lately too.
(05-11-2021, 01:07 AM)khaled1987 Wrote: [ -> ]Well, Kemba has been playing well lately too.
Good for the 31 yo small PG, I hope he continues doing it, cause it won't be here and if it is, it won't be for KP (edit: straight up).
(05-10-2021, 11:12 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]But...does a Front Office take that risk on a player of his age, size, injury history and overall game?
Walker to the Mavs? I wouldn't think so. Not under any scenario.
Too small, too injury-prone, too big of a contract, not enough impact.
He feels like the one the Celtics decided could propel them up the last rungs of the ladder, and instead gutted their potential. There's a lot of wasted money and minutes there, keeping them from being able to chase better answers to their flaws. I want no part of that ugly deal in Dallas.
Much rather have Brunson over Walker, and he's already here.
(05-11-2021, 09:02 AM)Jason Terry Wrote: [ -> ]Surprised to see that Sexton was one of the lowest ranked defenders in the league
Really? I am not surprised at all. He plays extremely inefficient basketball that doesn't result in wins. Basically whole team is reportedly fed up with him. He sure has potential, but I don't really want to wait for him to grow up.
(05-10-2021, 09:57 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]You're catching heat for this take, but I want you to know that you're not the only one who sees the situation clearly. Maybe KP wows us all in the playoffs, but barring that, he has left an extremely "not worth his contract" taste in the mouths of most people, I'd bet.
IMHO, this last bout of chronic knee pain will probably send huge red flags across the league to the point where he's a negative asset. I don't even think a great playoff performance changes anything fundamentally, because no one doubts his talent when he's healthy. He already proved in the bubble that he can play great in the playoffs when he's healthy. People are focusing on things like Luka chemistry and his lack of a sunny disposition whatnot ...that's ancillary stuff .... its the freaking knees !!! The thing is when he's still having chronic knee pain from just regular day to day use that keeps him out of critical games for weeks at a time, not from some acute injury but just the day to day load of being a basketball player, that's probably an indicator of a degenerative bone on bone condition that is going to ultimately require microfracture. People think all these little miniscus clean out procedures are no big deal, but often it's just kicking the can down the road on a underlying problem. You can only put the fix-a-flat in a bad tire and drive on it so many times. This isn't like when he got traded out of New York and you just tell yourself that once he rehabs from this one specific injury then the bad stuff is behind him and he's good to go. This is a chronic problem that leaves him on the end of the bench in street clothes at any moment with no timetable to return. Who knowingly wants to build their franchise around that?
GMs are mostly in the business of keeping their GM job. There's just a finite number of them, and they're precious. And any GM who gives up significant franchise assets for someone with chronic knee injuries on a max salary is putting his job on the chopping block. Any GM that trades for KP this offseason using significant franchise capital only to see KP sits out 3 weeks in December and then ultimately announces he needs microfracture surgery is getting fired. Who is taking that career risk? So they only way we're getting out of KP's contract is if we're swapping out an age/injury problem on a max contract with another franchise and/or bribing a team to eat the salary with future draft capital. That's why the most likely scenarios for a KP are swapping out for someone like Kemba/Horford and/or bribing a rebulding team with cap space to take him with 1st round picks. Ultimately I think the Mavs will put on a brave public face and try to white knuckle another season out of KP rather than swallow either scenario.
^^ Great point. There have been more injuries this season than usual it seems to me. The compressed season with back to backs and fewer days off, along with Covid protocols are to blame I'm sure.
(05-11-2021, 04:00 AM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Walker to the Mavs? I wouldn't think so. Not under any scenario.
Did you not believe the reporting from Fish and others that Walker was their top priority in free agency the off season before last? It doesn't seem all that long ago to me, personally.
And honestly, I do think some (not all, he's vastly underrated here) of the shine has worn off of him since, so I'm not calling him a prize acquisition, exactly, but we're talking about possible returns for a MAX player who misses a lot of games and doesn't play all that well when he's healthy. I don't know that anything
good is a realistic trade goal. You think differently?
(05-10-2021, 10:53 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Struggling? Yes, maybe. Struggling worse than Porzingis has this season? I say no.
Bill Simmons would disagree with you.
Like IGT said, your peanuts are our pistachios lol.
(05-11-2021, 10:13 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Did you not believe the reporting from Fish and others that Walker was their top priority in free agency the off season before last? It doesn't seem all that long ago to me, personally.
And honestly, I do think some (not all, he's vastly underrated here) of the shine has worn off of him since, so I'm not calling him a prize acquisition, exactly, but we're talking about possible returns for a MAX player who misses a lot of games and doesn't play all that well when he's healthy. I don't know that anything good is a realistic trade goal. You think differently?
I don't have anything better, but trading a 7'4" starter for a 6'0" starter who would take the ball from your best player's hands doesn't seem like a productive direction. I'd prefer trading size for size, or at least making sure any KP moves doesn't leave a hole in the rotation.
Also, Walker feels a little like "Rondo Part Deux". Aging, head case, point guard who BOS wants to unload.
(05-10-2021, 09:48 PM)dynamicalVoid Wrote: [ -> ]I was always a fan of his effort. He seems willing to pass most the game...his Triple Doubles suggest he will pass too.
I guess I would question is the reason people claiming he is garbage because he does not regularly make the best basketball play? When I watch I notice two things with him...he still shoots the mid-range a lot and I dont believe he is Durant, Paul, Leonard or even Doncic level of converting those...and he will take last shot in close games when I watch. He is too streaky to be shooting mid-range when 3 is a better shot or late game.
His athletic ability is top-shelf...his effort for rebounds is top-shelf...his fearlessness going to the rim is top-shelf. Is it the coaches job to turn that into winning basketball? Or is it Russ decision making?
I've never been a fan of, 'the 3 being the better shot' when the better shot is one that you feel comfortable with and consistently convert. Analytics be damned.
(05-11-2021, 10:15 AM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Bill Simmons would disagree with you.
I have heard Simmons talk about how down he is on Porzingis for two years now. WAY more than he has said about Walker. The Celtic he's most down on recently is Smart, tbh.
(05-11-2021, 10:21 AM)michaeltex Wrote: [ -> ]I don't have anything better, but trading a 7'4" starter for a 6'0" starter
In terms of value, this is a pretty solid point, especially when you mix in the AGES. I'm not arguing any of that, or for this specific trade.
I am saying that I, personally, can envision a world where the Mavs get more out of Walker than Porzingis over the next couple of seasons.
(05-11-2021, 10:38 AM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]In terms of value, this is a pretty solid point, especially when you mix in the AGES. I'm not arguing any of that, or for this specific trade.
I am saying that I, personally, can envision a world where the Mavs get more out of Walker than Porzingis over the next couple of seasons.
Sometimes it just comes down to two teams swapping problems in the hopes of a better fit or situations. If the Mavs see their #1 need to address in the offseason is to bring in a 2nd scoring ball handler guard, then I can see the appeal of swapping out KP for Kemba. Especially if Conley/DeRozan/Lowry are staying with their current teams and/or going to require a massive overpays for their age to beat out other suitors in a bidding war. The Mavs might feel they could more efficiently address the big man position in the current free agent crop than the guard position.
(05-11-2021, 09:23 AM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Really? I am not surprised at all. He plays extremely inefficient basketball that doesn't result in wins. Basically whole team is reportedly fed up with him. He sure has potential, but I don't really want to wait for him to grow up.
The tricky part in situations like that is knowing which players from among the "inefficient losers" club play that way
because of their team situation, and which ones
cause their team's bad situation with their play style. It's probably a mix of both for most of them, but Drummond is obviously a terrible NBA player, and it seems like LaVine has a chance of being a good one, at some point (just the first examples off the top of my head).
I'm not sure which Sexton is yet, but for some reason my instinct is to give him the benefit of the doubt, whereas you seem pretty down on him.