MavsBoard

(12-06-2020, 06:40 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly think a Harris trade would be the next move IF Giannis signs an extension.

I'm saying it now: Tobias Harris would not be in the top 20 of my preferred paths list, with or without Giannis' impending free agency. 

I would prefer to simply re-sign ALL THREE of the big, expiring players. Neither scenario (that or trading one or two of them for Harris) puts the team in immediate contention, but while Richardson will probably get a raise (if he plays as well as we hope), I think there's a good chance that one or both of THJ and Johnson's next deals are much more team friendly. One of them might possibly end up being a much more flippable asset than Harris and his bag of guaranteed cash. I think turning either of them into a marginally better player (by marginal, I only mean the Harris, too, is not a difference maker) on a BAD deal would be a grave mistake. 

And, I'd be shocked if there weren't better non-Giannis options popping up left and right at the trade deadline and next summer. 

I don't mind Harris, the player, but I'm OUT on that contract. I want no part of anything like that until the talent situation at the TOP of the roster is resolved.

(12-06-2020, 06:40 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]I honestly think a Harris trade would be the next move IF Giannis signs an extension.

But making that move beforehand is a bit shortsighted imo. Harris isn't going anywhere. No one is actively lining up to get him. If Giannis falls through he could be an interesting avenue though.

So I started writing a response to this and changed my mind half-way through. So first you can't include James Johnson in a trade which means the only realistic trade would be THJ + Powell. 

Mavs would get off Powell's deal but take on Harris' money. The big thing the Sixers would get is dumping Harris' contract but they would get another shooter which they would like. Not saying they would do this deal but this is the only one that the Mavs would do. I do actually think the Sixers might do this or might even have to include a protected first round pick just bc the money is so big.

Note that I have been anti-Harris but I would make the case that he would be an upgrade over THJ (clearly) and provide some good redundancy with KP. What I mean by that is that when KP is out then Harris does more on offense than he does when KP plays. He would have to be okay with not getting as many touches but there's no doubt he would flourish in the Mavs offense. When KP is out then you would have a guy like WCS at the 5 and be in business.

Your lineup would be Luka, Richardson, DFS, Harris, KP which is a very nice lineup imo. No issues on offense with this whatsoever. I don't think Harris is a ball-stopper like Barnes. To me he is a clear upgrade over THJ. On defense he isn't amazing but he is a good rebounder which helps.

People on this board hate big contracts but I just think they aren't that hard to move honestly especially if the player is a good player. I'd rather get Hield if possible. He fits better and has a better contract. 

Zach LaVine is interesting but if you get him you will have to give up assets and then pay him big money one year later. I don't hate that idea either. I think Mavs will have a hard time getting a third star, so the next best thing is a third scorer, one that is more reliable than the THJ/J Rich type scorer.

Hield/LaVine/Harris/Oladipo types qualify.

(12-06-2020, 07:14 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I would prefer to simply re-sign ALL THREE of the big, expiring players. 

So I am definitely down with J Rich assuming he has a good year. To me he would be a priority assuming he fits well which we can't guarantee but on paper seems like he will fit. THJ is a maybe but he is a guy that you are always going to be wanting to upgrade. A big thing with him will be contract. I feel like he is probably MLE-level or slightly above? Alternatively I could see him getting bigger money on a 1 year or 1+1 type deal. We see a lot of these like 15 mil 1+1 TO contracts which are essentially no risk for the team and provide an easily tradable contract.

James Johnson is a big question mark but I would imagine if he does well he would be getting a very team friendly deal and probably only for a year, like a room exception type contract. Mavs would be trying to use their cap space to keep J Rich, maybe THJ and then add one more starting-level player.

I don't mind that plan at all. I am just thinking a THJ + Powell would be clearly an instant upgrade and also move a depreciating asset in Powell off the books. Basically you are paying Harris net 25 mil, 27 mil for two years and then he's a large expiring that that last season.

Mavs won't have cap space for a while anyway so that isn't a huge issue, the difficulty could be staying under luxury tax with KP, Harris, Luka, J Rich while keeping your role players like Kleber, DFS (who honestly might be long gone by 2022). You would be locked into that group of guys for 22, 23. After that maybe everything expires except Luka.

So it's an option but it might be too rich for the Mavs' brass.

One way to look at it would be would you rather have say 10 mil/yr tied up in THJ + 11 in Powell + some other mystery play of some quality or Tobias Harris at 36 mil and you probably aren't adding anyone else significant in 2021. The biggest issue of course isn't 2021 but 22 and 23 where you probably have most of your roster locked up with no ability to maneuver.

History would tell us that no way would Donnie pass up the ability to have large expirings in 21 and 22 or fail that at least very movable contracts. If Mavs did THJ+Powell for Harris then they would have Maxi + WCS, DFS potentially expiring for about 16 mil in 2021 which isn't a ton and then maybe 12 or so in 22 with Burke + Kleber.

It's more likely Plan Powder decides to manufacturer a large expiring in 21 and 22 in addition to those other smaller contracts.

Here's one we don't discuss very much: Jonathan Isaac. I know he's injured and consequently likely not to play much this year (maybe not at all), but he's going to be free next summer, and he'd look pretty dope next to KP, imo, if the Mavs' medical staff signs off. You know he's probably dying to get out of Orlando. 

That's just one of many, many options that I would prefer to Tobias Harris.

(12-06-2020, 05:13 PM)Hypermav Wrote: [ -> ]Harden's actions give me hope for the inevitable Houston collapse sooner than later.

Seems like it's already underway. I imagine he gets traded to Philly or the Nets any day now.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R5MvHKF8z74

At the beginning of this highlight real its a lot of Harris destroying the Mavs, most notably Justin Jackson who has no ability to guard a player of Harris' caliber. Thank the good lord he is not on this team. As good as Rick is I just can't believe we live in a world where Rick would ever think it's a good idea to put Jackson out on the floor for any meaningful amount of time.

(12-06-2020, 08:38 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Here's one we don't discuss very much: Jonathan Isaac. I know he's injured and consequently likely not to play much this year (maybe not at all), but he's going to be free next summer, and he'd look pretty dope next to KP, imo, if the Mavs' medical staff signs off. You know he's probably dying to get out of Orlando. 

That's just one of many, many options that I would prefer to Tobias Harris.

I'm in on Isaac. One of my favorite potential targets.

(12-06-2020, 08:43 PM)madmavsgirl Wrote: [ -> ]I'm in on Isaac. One of my favorite potential targets.

I'm not sure anyone wouldn't be. Including Orlando........

(12-06-2020, 08:38 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Here's one we don't discuss very much: Jonathan Isaac. I know he's injured and consequently likely not to play much this year (maybe not at all), but he's going to be free next summer, and he'd look pretty dope next to KP, imo, if the Mavs' medical staff signs off. You know he's probably dying to get out of Orlando. 

That's just one of many, many options that I would prefer to Tobias Harris.

He is a RFA and the Magic love him. 99% sure that they will match any offer.

(12-06-2020, 09:20 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]He is a RFA and the Magic love him. 99% sure that they will match any offer.

Where are you seeing that he'll be a RFA? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the sheet I just looked at didn't include a QO. I think he's on his QO NOW, for this year.

EDIT: I'm using basketball-reference, and I just noticed that while they've updated the rosters for this season, there are still some details they don't have fully updated yet. They don't show WCS's second year as non-guaranteed, for example. Still, I'd like to get some type of confirmation about Isaac's situation.

(12-06-2020, 09:23 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Where are you seeing that he'll be a RFA? I'm not saying you're wrong, but the sheet I just looked at didn't include a QO. I think he's on his QO NOW, for this year.

4th year of his rookie contract. Afterwards he will be a RFA. Just like any other guy from his draft class that did not sign an extension (Ball, Fultz...).

(12-06-2020, 09:27 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]4th year of his rookie contract. Afterwards he will be a RFA. Just like any other guy from his draft class that did not sign an extension (Ball, Fultz...).

Ah, so this is automatically the case if he's not extended, and EVERYONE goes through this unless they sign the QO? Gotcha. That really doesn't come up very much for star players at that point, so thanks for the reminder. 

So, maybe he's not the guy, but I wouldn't give up. Look at what just happened with Bogdanovic. Either way, I think there will be a plethora of realistic scenarios that are better than Tobias Harris.

The more realistic forward from Orlando would be Gordon. He's a versatile enough perimeter defender that, between he and Richardson, I think you could justify keeping THJ long term. I expect Tim's new deal would require around $15 mil per year. Jordan Clarkson's 4 year $52 mil deal is a decent comparison. THJ is the better player and more teams will have cap space, so I think that number goes up.

Without any draft picks to trade it might be tough to pull of a deadline Gordon deal though. Let's hope the rookies play well and increase their value, or maybe Dallas could swing another roleplayer for starter trade by building something around Maxi.

I know of one Mav who will approve of signing Isaac - KP 

(12-06-2020, 09:47 PM)loki Wrote: [ -> ]The more realistic forward from Orlando would be Gordon. He's a versatile enough perimeter defender that, between he and Richardson, I think you could justify keeping THJ long term. I expect Tim's new deal would require around $15 mil per year. Jordan Clarkson's 4 year $52 mil deal is a decent comparison. THJ is the better player and more teams will have cap space, so I think that number goes up.

Without any draft picks to trade it might be tough to pull of a deadline Gordon deal though. Let's hope the rookies play well and increase their value, or maybe Dallas could swing another roleplayer for starter trade by building something around Maxi.

Gordon wouldn't be super high on my list, but if the bar is "better option than Tobias Harris" then he qualifies.

(12-06-2020, 10:00 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Gordon wouldn't be super high on my list, but if the bar is "better option than Tobias Harris" then he qualifies.

Not my favorit player but compared to other options a trade at the deadline is not the worst option. James Johnson`s contract is a perfect match.

Johnson + picks for Gordon
THJ extension
Resign Richardson

Probably better than a max deal for Gobert or Oladipo.

(12-06-2020, 10:04 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]Not my favorit player but compared to other options a trade at the deadline is not the worst option. James Johnson`s contract is a perfect match.

Johnson + picks for Gordon
THJ extension
Resign Richardson

Probably better than a max deal for Gobert or Oladipo.

Agreed, and I'm not sure you'd have to give up (meaningful) picks to get Gordon. I bet you could could get him for Johnson and one of the value vets, or maybe 1-2 of the rookies. 

So, if we can agree on THAT, don't you think it's possible that those expiring contracts (here because of keeping the space option open) might come in SUPER handy soon? Don't you think it's possible that something even better than Gordon might shake loose?

(12-06-2020, 10:10 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Agreed, and I'm not sure you'd have to give up (meaningful) picks to get Gordon. I bet you could could get him for Johnson and one of the value vets, or maybe 1-2 of the rookies. 

So, if we can agree on THAT, don't you think it's possible that those expiring contracts (here because of keeping the space option open) might come in SUPER handy soon? Don't you think it's possible that something even better than Gordon might shake loose?

Not really because we could have done all those things this summer. My biggest fear that has already been mentioned by other posters is that the Mavs give up Richardsons and THJs cap holds because they want to catch a bigger fish. Both sign with other teams and the Mavs end up scrambling for the leftovers after Giannis signs somewhere else.
I want Cuban and Donnie to commit. They could have done it last summer. They could have done it this summer. Now they are forced to do it next year. After Luka signs his max extension the Mavs won´t have the capspace (unless they want to give up quality role players).
I really do not like the non "Giannis" options next year and don´t want to rely on "something even better shaking loose" because that´s not a given.

When it comes to Gordons value the Magic rejected The "RoCo offer" this summer. They want more than 2 1sts. Don´t think any team is willing to do that.

(12-06-2020, 07:14 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I'm saying it now: Tobias Harris would not be in the top 20 of my preferred paths list, with or without Giannis' impending free agency. 

(12-06-2020, 07:14 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]I don't mind Harris, the player, but I'm OUT on that contract. I want no part of anything like that until the talent situation at the TOP of the roster is resolved.

I actually agree with ya here. I like Harris the player but that contract is a tough pill to swallow which is why I wouldn't even look that direction unless all the big names are gone.

Again though, I would MUCH rather prefer looking elsewhere first. Buddy, Lavine, Markkanen, Turner, Gordon etc. There are ALOT of good promising avenues before even having to think of Harris.

But as a finishing move perhaps after we made a swing at a star or another tier like Buddy/Lavine, and if he comes for essentially the price of admission (salary match/SnT), then its hard to argue against it. Him as a 3rd-4th option would be attractive especially next to Luka. However, yes the contract makes him almost unstomachable.