MavsBoard

(12-16-2021, 02:49 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Making enough money to break even for the year, maybe?

Zion is in danger of becoming the most high profile bust ever, maybe.

He will maybe bust - due to his injuries. However, when he played he was one of the best players in the NBA, he was literally unstoppable. There is a huge difference to that, and to a player that bust due to not being able to play at the level of the NBA. Not only did Zion show that, but he excelled. The players that have shown ability to play in NBA, should never be written off.

I think he looks as big as Shaq from that image which also could not be stopped. Hard to tell what will happen from now on with Zion. I would not write him off.

He deals with injuries and needs time to come back. If he keeps being injured and retires due to injuries, its clear he will be a bust.

However, if he is healthy, it's clear he is an unstoppable force in the NBA.

(12-17-2021, 11:36 AM)ClutchDirk Wrote: [ -> ]Good one fif...

As long as you're reading, Clutch, I'll keep firing my bad jokes!!!

(12-17-2021, 11:58 AM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]He will maybe bust - due to his injuries. However, when he played he was one of the best players in the NBA, he was literally unstoppable. There is a huge difference to that, and to a player that bust due to not being able to play at the level of the NBA. Not only did Zion show that, but he excelled. The players that have shown ability to play in NBA, should never be written off.

I think he looks as big as Shaq from that image which also could not be stopped. Hard to tell what will happen from now on with Zion. I would not write him off.

He deals with injuries and needs time to come back. If he keeps being injured and retires due to injuries, its clear he will be a bust.

However, if he is healthy, it's clear he is an unstoppable force in the NBA.

Oh, sure! It's all hypothetical right now and there's plenty of room for it to go many different ways. 

But, it's not about health (exactly), because the injuries have very clearly been caused by the weight. As you get heavier, your feet, knees, etc, have a more difficult time doing even basic work safely, and he's trying to be a professional athlete (whose game hinges on uncommonly athletic movement, no less). 

I'd say the biggest issue facing Zion is the weight.

(12-16-2021, 07:13 PM)HoosierDaddyKid Wrote: [ -> ]Kwame Brown, Anthony Bennett and Darko Millicic were high draft pick busts also.

Guy named Roy Tarpley comes to mind. Played so well early that everyone was gaga about his potential. Then a crash and burn of historic proportions.

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...0481077248

I guess it wasn't enough

https://twitter.com/ShamsCharania/status...1374830604

I wouldn't be surprised if desperate Sacramento pulls the trigger and trades Fox for Simmons.

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...4087754759

(12-17-2021, 12:20 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Oh, sure! It's all hypothetical right now and there's plenty of room for it to go many different ways. 

But, it's not about health (exactly), because the injuries have very clearly been caused by the weight. As you get heavier, your feet, knees, etc, have a more difficult time doing even basic work safely, and he's trying to be a professional athlete (whose game hinges on uncommonly athletic movement, no less). 

I'd say the biggest issue facing Zion is the weight.

I would agree there could probably is a correlation with more weight and injuries. This could be answered by taking number of light weight players and injuries and comparing that to heavier ones, and comparing same positions, age etc. There should be some quantitative statistical analysis done on something like this, it would make sense if there was a correlation, but it would take many players to determine a possible effect.

For a group of players one could find a correlation maybe. However, its very hard to determine exactly for each player that this (weight) was the actual cause. Light weight players tend also to get season and career ending injuries or multiple injuries, and there its not the weight, so obviously other forces than weight are a factor as well. It's hard to know whether this is bad luck, or due to weight, for one particular player.

One thing I do know, I do respect players that have shown skill and ability to dominate in the NBA. This is extremely unusual. And this means that this player can do it at the highest level. It can be bad luck with injuries he is dealing and that it would have been the same, or perhaps even he could have had even more bad luck being light weight - in some situations the more weight can actually protect you when you hit other players, although it probably also reverses that in others.

Based on his play, I would never write him off. He may even turn that into advantage like Shaq did. It could very well be also correlated with weight as you mention his injuries, and it could continue and he might never recover. Technically, he would be a bust. But in my eyes, the real bust is the one that cant play at NBA level, when fully healthy. Injuries can be bad luck. It could also be a sign that you play the wrong way.

When Zion was not bothered by injuries Luka and he and Giannis were the most unstoppable players in the NBA. I guess this was when Durant and Curry were out, and they should be on that list as well. But bad luck can sometimes stop and turn into a period of good luck. I wouldn't mind trading for Zion for instance.

(12-17-2021, 01:40 PM)burekemde Wrote: [ -> ]I would agree there could probably is a correlation with more weight and injuries. This could be answered by taking number of light weight players and injuries and comparing that to heavier ones, and comparing same positions, age etc. There should be some quantitative statistical analysis done on something like this, it would make sense if there was a correlation, but it would take many players to determine a possible effect.

Do you not feel like your knees, ankles, feet, hips and back are working harder to get through life when you gain (the bad kind of) weight? I do, and I feel much better doing even simple things when I lose bad weight, too. I'd say it's all rather obvious. 

Shaq's frame and game were both more suited to him being larger, and during his prime, he was actually in great shape at times, though not always. And even in his case it's pretty widely accepted that his prime didn't last as long as it should have. 

Pretty simple. Binary. Either Zion learns how to take better care of his body, or his skill will become irrelevant. I agree he is and will continue to be great if/when he gets a handle on this stuff. I do not agree that there's a world in which badly conditioned, way-too-heavy Zion somehow adapts his game to use it as an advantage. Basketball is a sport that requires, running, suddenly stopping, jumping, controlling your body while in the air, etc, etc, etc.

Nobody is asking you to write him off. We're just talking about the absolutely obvious factual truths of the current situation he has put himself in. It's like the Luka conversation we've been having for two years only 1,000 times worse.   I think it has been overblown some in Luka's situation, but in Zion's it's very central to the discussion, imo.

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(12-17-2021, 01:32 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't be surprised if desperate Sacramento pulls the trigger and trades Fox for Simmons.

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...4087754759

Man, if I'm Morey I feel like I can do better than Fox, I think. Not that Fox isn't a good get, but for an offense built around Embiid? Give me someone who can shoot, tbh. That's the entire issue with Simmons/Embiid in the first place, other than the long standing rumor that they don't like each other.

(12-17-2021, 02:34 PM)luka_skywalker_77 Wrote: [ -> ]Looks like we may be back at the top of the standings by mid January with all these absences.

Really trying to jynx us?

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1002...internally


For fun, let's say the deal is Kemba/Knox and the Dallas protected 2023 pick for Gordon.  Now Dallas has to deal with Houston if it wants to remove the protections on the pick.  What do you want from Dallas if you are Houston?

Eat the Kemba contract?  The going rate is more like a second rounder, so that seems high.  Could you do some other player swap where Dallas gets a useful player.  Maybe Moses for Garuba?  Dallas reportedly really wanted Garuba in the draft and he would be that mobile defender next to KP (some day).  Maybe Willie-Plus for Theis?  Also a mobile defender next to KP.  Seems like there might be more workable combinations with rebuilding Rockets than win-now Knicks if they had the Dallas 2023 instead of NY.

(12-17-2021, 04:56 PM)DanSchwartzgan Wrote: [ -> ]Maybe Willie-Plus for Theis?

Theis is probably available. Many people are attributing Houston's recently better results to the decision of not playing him much.

(12-17-2021, 04:59 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]Theis is probably available. Many people are attributing Houston's recently better results to the decision of not playing him much.

I saw a report recently that the Rockets are really motivated to move on from Gordon, and they're main goal is to open up a roster spot to convert their 2-way standout. So they need 2 for 1 deals. That report (I think it was from the Athletic now thinking about it) said they're willing to use Theis as a means to an end.

Mavs should be all over that deal since Theis can fit in the TPE. Is it too much to wonder that the Mavs can get paid a 2023 first to eat Theis contract too?

(12-17-2021, 06:24 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Is it too much to wonder that the Mavs can get paid a 2023 first to eat Theis contract too?

Yes. There is no reason for Houston to do that. And if Theiss is such crap, that one team would be paying a FRP to get rid off, why would we even want him?

Hot take:

I like Theis, but I think he's much more similar to Powell than we think, and once we all get the chance to watch him every night for a while, we'll eventually hate him just as much, ESPECIALLY if he's used as Powell's replacement in the same, exact system. 

The true mission should be to significantly change Powell's role, replacing him in effect with a long, athletic forward. THEN replace Powell if you still need to, but he might be pretty good in a reduced role, tbh. 

However, all of the above is built on a foundation of admitting that KP is a center.

(12-17-2021, 06:26 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]Yes. There is no reason for Houston to do that. And if Theiss is such crap, that one team would be paying a FRP to get rid off, why would we even want him?

Because Theis couldn't possibly be any worse than what Powell is producing right now. 

And I worded my sentence poorly. By 2023 pick I was mainly referring to the 2023 Mavs first that NYK has and was referencing the 3-team deal where the protections were removed. So in essence the Mavs are getting "paid" a first, but all it does is free 2025 to be used for deals.

(12-17-2021, 01:32 PM)omahen Wrote: [ -> ]I wouldn't be surprised if desperate Sacramento pulls the trigger and trades Fox for Simmons.

https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status...4087754759

They better do something. What started out as a promising season, is going sideways fast. They blew a 15 pt lead to Memphis, and lost 124-105. Memphis is 10-1 since Ja went down. I'd say Memphis is legit.