Trading THJ-Powell + picks for Gobert - on draft day, it can be a 2022 pick plus the next eligible 1st ....
I understand the limitations of Gobert, but if you can do that deal, in practical terms for the Mavs current mix, it's Powell to Gobert, plus 2 kids you never had. I don't think that's adding any limitation to the current mix.
But if such a swap needs to grab much-needed pieces at other positions, I'm not that excited, because now it's paying $35M for a center in a "centers are cheap" league, plus removing talent from other positions too, plus returning to a lack of flexibility. Then I think I'd pass, and spend my assets and payroll elsewhere.
(02-17-2022, 03:33 PM)F Gump Wrote: [ -> ]Trading THJ-Powell + picks for Gobert - on draft day, it can be a 2022 pick plus the next eligible 1st ....
I understand the limitations of Gobert, but if you can do that deal, in practical terms for the Mavs current mix, it's Powell to Gobert, plus 2 kids you never had. I don't think that's adding any limitation to the current mix.
But if such a swap needs to grab much-needed pieces at other positions, I'm not that excited, because now it's paying $35M for a center in a "centers are cheap" league, plus removing talent from other positions too, plus returning to a lack of flexibility. Then I think I'd pass, and spend my assets and payroll elsewhere.
If Utah flames out again in the off season you have to really question why you want Gobert. Time and again teams have found a way to neutralize his defensive presence in the post season. If the feeling is pairing with him and Luka gives you a certain guaranteed floor that is higher than today, I don’t disagree. The question is how much higher would that ceiling be though? Getting out of the first round? The second round? Will playing with Luka suddenly causes coaches on good teams who have found a way to neutralize his defensive strengths to have sleepless nights?
If your ceiling with him is not going to be a legit contender then, given his previous failures in the playoffs, would his contract become not just like KPs? A bloated one that really becomes difficult to move even if is able to stay on the court unlike KP?
(02-17-2022, 03:58 PM)hakeemfaan Wrote: [ -> ]If Utah flames out again in the off season you have to really question why you want Gobert. Time and again teams have found a way to neutralize his defensive presence in the post season. If the feeling is pairing with him and Luka gives you a certain guaranteed floor that is higher than today, I don’t disagree. The question is how much higher would that ceiling be though? Getting out of the first round? The second round? Will playing with Luka suddenly causes coaches on good teams who have found a way to neutralize his defensive strengths to have sleepless nights?
If your ceiling with him is not going to be a legit contender then, given his previous failures in the playoffs, would his contract become not just like KPs? A bloated one that really becomes difficult to move even if is able to stay on the court unlike KP?
I don't disagree with your concerns, or your points. In fact, those kinds of issues would certainly have to be evident before UT even trades him, right?
My thinking is merely this: if it's with everything else being equal from the current team, would I rather have Powell or Gobert? I think they do the same sorts of things, but that Rudy is way better at them. I think he raises the ceiling a lot.
That assumes MC will still pay for the rest of the team, because the salary diff is huge. (Powell at $11M for 1 year, or Gobert at $38M-$41M-$44M-$47M at ages 31-34. Helping allay some of it is getting off THJ who is $20M-$18M-$16). If he won't, then I have to pause. In looking at the money, it does make me hesitate, and at least wonder what picks are justified.
Tonight Miami comes out on top in a double over time thriller against CHA. What is interesting is the +/- between the starters and bench players for MIA.
MIA starters were +23, 27, 19, 26, and 10.
MIA bench players were -25, -15, -20, -25.
I don't like single game +/- as a clear indication for anything, but it is pretty interesting to see that MIA bench basically be the reason why it was close to begin with.
(02-17-2022, 10:48 PM)SleepingHero Wrote: [ -> ]Tonight Miami comes out on top in a double over time thriller against CHA. What is interesting is the +/- between the starters and bench players for MIA.
MIA starters were +23, 27, 19, 26, and 10.
MIA bench players were -25, -15, -20, -25.
I don't like single game +/- as a clear indication for anything, but it is pretty interesting to see that MIA bench basically be the reason why it was close to begin with.
Not surprised to see Vincent at -25. I thought he was the worst player in the Dallas game.
(02-17-2022, 02:47 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]That´s true. Play-off underachiever, but the discussion of always laying the blame on the star player is just stupid. Nurse is simply a much better overall coach than Casey and yes Kawhi is a better player than DeRozan. Well a healthy Kawhi is arguably the best player in the league. Even he was a lucky triple bounce away from losing in the 2nd (or 3rd?) round and the whole perception of DeRozan changes based on that.
It´s the same discussion people are just having about Gobert. Gobert is not the problem in Utah. Are you telling me the reason the Jazz can´t play the most dominant rim-protector in the game, cause Draymond and Ayton can stretch and force him off the floor. Well be my guest and have Draymond/Ayton shoot threes and mid-range all day. Also this myth that he´s an offensive liability. The guy averages 16 PPG. That´s nearly as much as our precious Unicorn. It´s not like he´s a complete non-factor, just because he doesn´t shoot threes.
Okay the Clippers had Marcus Morris at C to drag Gobert, but Morris ultimately shot 33% from three. I think the 48%+ that roleplayers like Kennard, Jackson, Mann and Batum shot were a much bigger factor and that´s not on Gobert.
....but I think Utha knows that, too. And as a small market team you don´t give away a top 25 player in the game.
You pretty much nailed my thoughts. Gobert is good enough that he can force the other team to match his size or die in the paint.
With that said, the reason why the Warriors or Clippers or Phoenix eat Gobert alive is because they constantly put him in switches. Over and over they attack his lateral movement. Despite this, Gobert more often than not recovers and makes a great play, and it's his teammates failing to rotate or making a mistake that cause them to score.
I have 2 main issues when it comes to Gobert. First is by getting him, we're locking ourselves into a style of play, much like Porzingis. We can't just sit our 35 mil guy. Gobert's style just so happens to fit with Luka MUCH better than KP, but he comes with his own downsides of not being able to space the floor.
Second one is, what happens 2 years from now and Gobert has 2 years remaining (at 44 and 46.5 mil) on his deal and he's just turned 32? Can we honestly say he'll still be as effective on switches? Will he even be the same player? THATS why Gobert as an asset is terrifying. He's a fantastic player that's paid double what he's worth.
Wrapping it all up, there is no way in hell Utah ever trades Gobert. We're lulling ourselves into a fantasy here. He's 1B in terms of why they win so much. They are currently ahead of us in the standings (though not by much). The only way UTA trades Gobert is if he specifically asks out along with Donovan and they go into full rebuild mode. And at that point UTA would be looking for multiple FRP.
(02-17-2022, 02:47 PM)Mavs2021 Wrote: [ -> ]That´s true. Play-off underachiever, but the discussion of always laying the blame on the star player is just stupid. Nurse is simply a much better overall coach than Casey and yes Kawhi is a better player than DeRozan. Well a healthy Kawhi is arguably the best player in the league. Even he was a lucky triple bounce away from losing in the 2nd (or 3rd?) round and the whole perception of DeRozan changes based on that.
It´s the same discussion people are just having about Gobert. Gobert is not the problem in Utah. Are you telling me the reason the Jazz can´t play the most dominant rim-protector in the game, cause Draymond and Ayton can stretch and force him off the floor. Well be my guest and have Draymond/Ayton shoot threes and mid-range all day. Also this myth that he´s an offensive liability. The guy averages 16 PPG. That´s nearly as much as our precious Unicorn. It´s not like he´s a complete non-factor, just because he doesn´t shoot threes.
Okay the Clippers had Marcus Morris at C to drag Gobert, but Morris ultimately shot 33% from three. I think the 48%+ that roleplayers like Kennard, Jackson, Mann and Batum shot were a much bigger factor and that´s not on Gobert.
....but I think Utha knows that, too. And as a small market team you don´t give away a top 25 player in the game.
I feel like this is a serious misunderstanding of how playoff basketball works. The difficulty Gobert(and every true center) faces today is not the other center shooting threes, it's getting switched through constant pick-and-roll action and trying to defend a modern scoring guard/wing. This is literally what Luka did to the Clippers and Zubac- repeatedly P&R to get him, and then Luka would destroy him every time. Zubac is not a bad center, but he can't guard Luka. Unfortunately for the Mavs, the Clippers could not just afford to bench Zubac, it turns out they were actually better without him, and that's why the Mavs lost that series. If the Clippers had Gobert instead of Zubac, it's quite possible they lose the series. Not just because Gobert's contract demands he stay on the court, but also because his contract limits your ability to add other talent.
(02-18-2022, 06:31 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like this is a serious misunderstanding of how playoff basketball works. The difficulty Gobert(and every true center) faces today is not the other center shooting threes, it's getting switched through constant pick-and-roll action and trying to defend a modern scoring guard/wing. This is literally what Luka did to the Clippers and Zubac- repeatedly P&R to get him, and then Luka would destroy him every time. Zubac is not a bad center, but he can't guard Luka. Unfortunately for the Mavs, the Clippers could not just afford to bench Zubac, it turns out they were actually better without him, and that's why the Mavs lost that series. If the Clippers had Gobert instead of Zubac, it's quite possible they lose the series. Not just because Gobert's contract demands he stay on the court, but also because his contract limits your ability to add other talent.
A big (no pun) part of the problem for centers is the interpretation of the rules.
Guards are allowed to pull, push, slap and shove and centers are called for everything.
The "prison rule" phase at the begin of this season was great, way less fouls much more basketball.
Harlabob is on the latest Bill Simmons podcast. I haven't listened to it yet but will try over the next few days.
(02-18-2022, 06:31 AM)Branduil Wrote: [ -> ]I feel like this is a serious misunderstanding of how playoff basketball works. The difficulty Gobert(and every true center) faces today is not the other center shooting threes, it's getting switched through constant pick-and-roll action and trying to defend a modern scoring guard/wing. This is literally what Luka did to the Clippers and Zubac- repeatedly P&R to get him, and then Luka would destroy him every time. Zubac is not a bad center, but he can't guard Luka. Unfortunately for the Mavs, the Clippers could not just afford to bench Zubac, it turns out they were actually better without him, and that's why the Mavs lost that series. If the Clippers had Gobert instead of Zubac, it's quite possible they lose the series. Not just because Gobert's contract demands he stay on the court, but also because his contract limits your ability to add other talent.
Nobody can guard Luka. Of course Zubac cannot, when neither Kawhi or PG13 can.
So do you want Jokic in 18 months, cause he can´t stay on the floor in the play-offs either according to your logic. What about Embiid, Towns or Ayton?
How did the Lakers win a championship starting Dwight Howard and AD? How did the Bucks do it with Giannis and Brook Lopez? How in the world did Marc Gasol play 29 MPG at age 34 with Siakam/Ibaka against the small ball poster child from Golden State and come out on top.
The outcomes seem to contradict everything you say.
Haven´t found a team yet that started Dwight Powell and Maxi Kleber at the PF/C position and won an NBA championship. I can tell you that much.
I think people still can´t grasp how good Luka is and how good this team would be with actual All-NBA talent around him. Without Luka the current team would be on the level of the Pistons and Magic.
(02-18-2022, 03:52 PM)KillerLeft Wrote: [ -> ]![[Image: giphy.gif]](https://media1.giphy.com/media/l0ErLeqamV3UOARsA/giphy.gif)
mid foot sprains usually mean the ligaments in that area were damaged. Not good. Not only do they take a while to heal, it's very easy to reinjure them by doing quick movements such as change of directions or jumping.
I'm not relishing Davis' injury situation, I promise.
If I'm being honest, however, I am taking great delight at the thought of the Lakers missing the playoffs.
Fellow armchair GMs and couch athletes. There is hope for us. I am pretty confident that I would have outperformed both.
(02-18-2022, 11:28 PM)dirkfansince1998 Wrote: [ -> ]
Fellow armchair GMs and couch athletes. There is hope for us. I am pretty confident that I would have outperformed both.
That was so funny to watch.
Just got to play that in the arena and Barnes will be in his head the rest of the game!
![[Image: 480j2aR.jpg]](https://i.imgur.com/480j2aR.jpg)